November 2014 - thread 7

[amy83firsttimer]

Jump aboard ladies.

I'm going get baby vaccinated with mmr etc because i think theyre important but I'm not sure about vaccines when pregnant.
I've also had hep b and tb etc. I've been told baby should have tb when he's little as im in a high risk area, mine was rather unpleasant so I'm not looking forward to my poor baby having it.

I think I'll have the placenta one, I don't want to be faffing about when I'm trying to bond with my newborn.

TB pisses me off. It was erradicated! No one had it for decades! Then people travel in from other countries and bang it's back! Why do we not have regulations that people have to be vaccinated before entering the country? We have to be jabbed before going elsewhere, why not the other way around? We wouldn't need to still be jabbing everyone if we had protected our borders and we still don't do it now! Pisses me off. So now my baby has to have yet another jab to protect her because the country can't protect its citizens and borders from diseases we eradicated decades ago. Where is the social responsibility there? The powers that be want us to take responsibility when they don't at our borders. It's fucked up.

I recently had to take care of a patient who we didn't realise at the time, had TB. He subsequently died, as did his wife. My vaccinations gave me a high level of protection. Without them, I have no doubt I would have contracted it myself as I had extended contact for weeks. And I was pregnant.

Even within a hospital, we thought they had a lower respiratory tract infection. My point is, TB is not something you can automatically recognise - you could be chatting across the garden fence to someone with a lingering "chest infection" daily, and they could unwittingly have TB.

It is our responsibility to protect ourselves and our children from communicable diseases in the community. We cannot control other people. I heard of one story where a woman who had declined to vaccinate her children was raging because another mother had knowingly let her children, who were showing early signs of measles, mix with kids at a party. The other partygoers were vaccinated, but her son and daughter both came down with full-blown measles and became very unwell. She failed to see the irony of her being incandescent with the other mother, whilst she herself had chosen to leave her children fully vunerable to such other carriers.

TB wasn't fully eradicated in the UK (although it nearly was in the 80s). If you are a non-EEA migrant then you can't enter the UK without a certificate showing that you are TB free. And the increase of TB appears to be mostly contracted in the UK - 85% of new cases were among those who had lived in the UK for at least two years. That study suggested that a drop in living conditions and an increase in prison population were to blame.

(I have a keen interest in this as I am at high risk due to the groups I work with, which includes migrants and prisoners.)

Greenstone when the baby is born it is still sharing blood with the placenta. If the cord is clamped and placenta expelled immediately, the baby does not get a full blood volume and some key nutrients/vitamins are lost as they are stuck in the placenta.
A natural 3rd stage means the blood from the placenta is returned to the baby. There is an increased risk of higher blood loss for the mother sometimes I think, but if all is well, it's best for baby to delay cord clamping and have a natural 3rd stage :)

The baby and I will be getting all our vaccinations, including TB as I think they offer it in my high risk location. Just had a look at the current schedule, and they've added rota virus on too at 2 and 3 months.

Back from my appointment with the VBAC midwife. She went through what "went wrong" with my induction at 42 weeks last time and we went through my current birth plan with regards to VBAC issues.

Basically from reading through my old notes she said that DS head wasn't in my pelvis, and he was OP/back to back (which I didn't know) which is why I laboured for so long and painfully! I was never going to have him naturally, (at that moment in time) and that was before he started getting in distress and the cord was around his neck. There is no reason why that should happen again, and they will do a thorough check to make sure the current bump is not OP. (I think I will get a private scan to double check if they won't do one) Also because I got to 10cm last time there is a very good chance things will progress quickly this time and if it doesn't then they will move to do a c section more quickly, assuming I go in to labour naturally. Otherwise they will book me in for a c section at 41-42 weeks. The midwife strongly suggested continuous monitoring (which I can take off if I want to) as that would give the first clue that my scar is splitting which I've reluctantly agreed to, but I've refused the cannula unless necessary.

The birth is basically going to be a wait and see what happens game!

I've read that you can leave the cord to stop pulsing before it's cut, (takes a few minutes I think) and then have the syntocinin (?) injection for a managed 3rd stage if the placenta hasn't come out by then. So it's not necessarily either or. I think I'll want to snuggle up with new baby as soon as I'm able and not worry about the placenta making an appearance so will probably go for managed. But need to do more reading...

I thought too that you can choose to delay clamping unil it has stopped pulsing and then have the injection.

Mrswombat I wonder why they didnt tell your baby was back to back or did they find out really late? I thought they kept an eye on these things.

Annarose that's just stupid. If you don't vax, or delay it, you know there's a chance they'll catch it, and either you're ok with that (as I am) or you intend to lock them in a sterile bubble their whole life or you're an idiot if you think there's no chance of catching it. My question would be was the child with measles vaccinated, in which case how can anyone think they work? like I said I had every jab and still caught measles and mumps. I would expect any parent of a child with anything contagious to give everyone a heads up, and for any adult with anything contagious to do the same, I think that's just manners and there are people, baby is and adults, who for whatever reason can't be vaccinated and have a compromised immune system and these things would be a risk to them, but you can't complain your kids catches something if they've not been vaccinated! I delayed it in the hope DD would catch everything so wouldn't need the MMR, against all my efforts she never caught a sodding thing except chicken pox which they didn't jab for at the time.

As far as I know - they can't always tell that a baby is back to back? A few pals had back to back labours and no-one knew at the time?

I have been wondering how / if they know these things beforehand if you haven't had a late scan? Can the midwife feel whether baby is back to back by palpation at late stage appointments? Just something I'm worrying about since reading that you have a slightly higher chance of back to back labour with anterior placenta.

blamber and moggle - yes, that's what I did last time, waited for the cord to stop pulsing and then it was clamped and then got the injection, I think. Can't remember the exact sequence but they definitely waited to clamp the cord. So yeah anyway I'll probably go for that option again if all goes well.

Re. back-to-back - I think sometimes even during labour babies decide to turn back-to-back, so it's not a precise science.

I'd like to wait for the cord to stop pulsing this time but how long does that take? Is it like a minute or two or is it like half an hour or what? I'm not sure they'd allow it with it being an elective c-section. I'll ask next week when I see my consultant.

From what I have seen TB seems to be affecting a lot more people of African descent, even if born and bred here, but not sure if that's from family coming over and bringing it, or just that there's something more susceptible in Africans. My great grandad died of it but he was like 300 years old and it was back in the war. He was Chinese though, not African. The midwife said something to me a few months ago about having to watch something with my Chinese heritage making us more susceptible to something or other, can't remember what it is now but I'm a carbon copy of my white Dad and DD is as white as they come - all blonde hair, blue eyes and white white white skin so think whatever it was the chances are low and the Chinese in me has been well and truly strangled by the white genes, and this one's father is a half German, half American very white typical jock type with blonde hair and blue eyes too. Unless I have a little Chinese throw back! Lol! That would be cute! My late Nana would be thrilled! Oh I want to see what she looks like! So impatient!!

Moggle - I think anterior placenta is linked to higher rates of back to back but of course, not definite that it will be back to back. I am not sure if midwife can feel it?? Anyone know??

Greenstone - yep, seems baby can move position in labour to be back to back.

I also want to delay the cord clamping. On a positive birth group I am in, the length of time seems to vary with some up to 30 minutes. I also want to donate the cord blood for stem cell research.
Last time my placenta took ages to come away. I was up and walking about with it still in me and was sent for 2 wees to encourage expulsion as well!!!! Thankfully it came away before they wanted me to head to theatre for removal.

plan on giving it as much time as needed in this birth, especially as at home.

Mrsd - I may have missed it with being on hols but from what I remember you were under close watch with preeclampsia symptoms??

Yeah I've been seeing my mw every week but everything seems to have calmed down. My BP has gone back down and stayed down for about 3 weeks now, no protein since the initial positive test, and whereas a month ago I felt like absolute shit I'm feeling much much better now. The SPD is still hell and getting worse by the day but I feel much better in every other way. I have a scan, GTT and consultant next week but all seems much calmer now.

Oh right. Good to hear. After initial post, I'd thought you were on that path so good that it seems to have calmed down for you.

Yeah I saw her today and she said the difference in me in a month is really noticeable and she's not worried anymore. She said you could see I was swollen everywhere and just miserable and looked like I was about to keel over any minute but the last couple of weeks I've come back to life. Apart from SPD I feel pretty human again!

As a children nurse my child has had as will baby have every vaccination offered these illnesses can kill mmr is below herd immunity in alot of areas children are at real risk unvaccinated n just because so n so had measles n was fine doesn't mean another child will be.

I have nursed v v sick babies we are talking 10yrs ago as no longer work on a ward with whooping cough at 3-7wks of age as not yet had vaccine I am pleased to see it now offered to pregnant women n will have mine.

I work on evidence based practice based on research n good strong research at that n have no reason not to vaccinate my children

At no point did they tell me the baby was back to back/OP before I was induced. They may have mentioned that baby was OP as part of the explanation when they decided to give me a c section but DP and I don't remember and it certainly wasn't explained as a "this is why it's wrong" thing. I did have a scan during labour so I assumed they picked it up and didn't mention it..... I do vaguely remember reading that he was OP on my notes after the birth but it meant nothing to me at the time.

It's only now after being on mumsnet for years that I know how awful back to back labours are, and it's significance. The midwife said that some women have pelvises that are prone to back to back labours and the only way to know that is by x ray and there's not point in doing one of those now. She's had a natural back to back and a non back to back labour so having one doesn't meant you'll have another. She's given me some positions to sit in room 36 weeks to help stop baby moving in to back to back position.

Argh! I didn't know that about anterior placentas and back-to-back, another thing to worry about!!

I plan to leave the cord until it stops
pulsing, usually about 15 minutes and then I'll decide about the injection.
I think that the injection is basically synthetic oxytocin so I would prefer not to have it as artificial oxytocin can inhibit production of your own natural oxytocin which I want in abundance for bonding and breast-feeding.
Having said that, if I have already been induced or had other interventions then I probably won't be so reluctant as it won't make much difference overall.
Also, think it reduces the risks of haemorrhaging, which I don't fancy and I think I'll want it all over and done with and to get cleaned up so I can concentrate fully on admiring my gorgeous baby.

I know she is gorgeous because we had a 4D scan at the weekend, it was absolutely amazing, I have framed one of the prints, she is absolutely, completely and utterly scrumptious!
I highly recommend it.
£59 for a 15m appointment in Chiswick and loads of photos of her little cute face.
Sorry, very excited first timer, just cannot believe we could see her, properly!
Made it all suddenly extremely real, I'm actually growing a HUMAN BEING!

Ohhh I want delayed cord clamping too, so I need to wait to have the injection until after that do I?

Ohhh I want delayed cord clamping too, so I need to wait to have the injection until after that do I?

mrs wombat my DD was back to back, long painful labour, would love to know the positions that the midwife recommended you do from 36 weeks.
Hope I don't have a pelvis that is prone to it happening again! It isn't the end of the world though, I did get through it last time!
I didn't get told where my placenta was last time, I know that it's anterior this time.