October 2014 - thread 7: blooming or just blooming hot?

[YellowWellies]

Hello all new thread!

Madela (sp?) Is fantastic. I plan to pump enough for one feed per day from about 2 weeks. My ds wouldn't take a bottle and I've since learned that of you don't offer within 4 weeks of birth, they don't find it natural to latch. Despite advice to the contrary, bottle feeding does not make a baby forget how to latch to the boob. As soon as I'm sure the baby is comfortable with bf I will be encouraging some I interaction with bottle feeding, if only so I can drink gin at Xmas!!!!! I miss gin !!!!!!!!!!!

Given 80% of women who hope to BF don't make it past day 3 (that "I'm not making enough milk run and get some formula before baby starves" sensation while your milk comes in after the first couple of days messes with your confidence so badly, ignore it just keep baby on your boob - the more they fuss the more milk they get your body to make) I would research which one you want and only buy it once you know you've managed to BF. Far better to get a good book on BF and read it cover to cover now - that's a much better BF investment at this stage. BF is awesome but the first week is a massive head f*ck if you're not expecting it. I'd recommend 'the food of love' by Kate Evans.

Lots of pals wasted lots of money on pumps and never managed to BF. Some hospitals will lend them out too. I used one for weeks and it gives you much sympathy for dairy cows! Can't remember which ours is - the spectra? Its fierce but got lots of milk. The medela swing is also meant to be good?

Bump that's my plan too. I agree about nipple confusion not being anything to worry about from our experience - J was syringe fed, then bottle fed expressed milk and only managed to latch on on day 10 (he was under the lights for jaundice and couldn't be out for longer than 10 minutes every 3 hours) and he coped fine with boob and bottle. I'd be wary of mix feeding BF and FF in the first six weeks when your boobs are building your supply but pumping and alternating boob and expressed bottle worked fab for us and helped with sleep in the first few weeks. I'd go to bed at 7pm after J had clusterfed for a couple of hours, DH would give him an expressed bottle at 10, then he'd wake for a BF at 1 and 5. So I always got at least 7 til 1 in a big chunk!

You can rent a medela from mothercare I saw the other day. Not a bad idea incase it's not for you.

Love how organised some are! I agree things can be bought quickly but it is great to spread the cost. And it is lovely to build up a stash for the new person coming .

Kirstie, I love bummis prefolds and wraps for the newborn stage - absolutely bomb proof when it comes to explosive poo! Unlike disposables or bum genius (DS was in disposables til 5 weeks, due to my emcs, then in BG which leaked, due to his skinny legs. DD was in bummis at a few days old and never a leak, despite being same build as her brother. BG really great once they hit 4-6months and then do til potty training).

I agree a book about BFing would be better money spent than a pump now. The Food of Love is fab. I have a medela swing and it's grand. But definitely can be bought/rented after birth. There's no need to pump until your supply is established (nothing more disheartening than pumping for an hour and getting a dribble!). Remember the baby can get milk more efficiently than the best pump, so if you pump and get v little it doesn't mean your baby is not getting enough.

The feeding section of MN is also fantastic.

Me, sorry to hear your work is being rubbish. I am also finding this pregnancy much harder than with my older two. Third time's not a charm it seems! Roll on rest and maternity leave for you!

Agh lost my post! Was linking to this www.bestbeginnings.org.uk/watch-fbtb
Also to agree with flip point re the pump nott being as effective as baby. I could only get 60ml max at each pumping session (often less) yet I bf Ds for almost 2 years. I also has the Medela swing pump.

I tried to introduce a bottle of expressed bf after six weeks as per the bf guidance to wait until 6 weeks. However Ds wouldn't take it (I even used a medela calma bottle esp made for bf babies) he never really took to the bottle, which meant I never got a break (he didn't sleep either) so this time I will be doing things differently and hope I have a slightly easier time of it.

What's everyone's plans for Father's Day? I'm up doing first shift today so OH gets to lie in first. Only a parent can call 7:30 a lie in! Then I'll go back for hour and half, if I wasn't going through all this sleep deprivation then I wouldn't even go back to bed and let him sleep for longer but there's no way my body will cope with that. We'll go out for lunch later.

Interesting about the breast pumps, I'm really keen to express as soon as it wont affect my supply so DH can do some feeds, but I'm also planning on having some formula in as I'm not too precious about bf. If it doesnt work then hey ho I tried!

Question for any of you HR peeps or those that have done this before. I have read you get taxed on smp. But if you're only getting basic smp this will be below the 10000 per year allowance. So as we will have earnt 6 months salary from this tax year do we pay tax on smp then claim it back?

Hope that makes sense. 7.30 on a Sunday morning is a bit early to be thinking about tax but for some reason I was dreaming about it last night!

So yesterday I was told the following (by famy members, who I love very much but hadn't seen in a few weeks):

• you couldn't be six months, are you sure there's a baby in there at all?
• you're very big already, you'll be so uncomfortable by the end
• are you eating enough?
• don't eat too much, you'll never get the weight off
• oooooh you'll have terrible stretch marks make sure you use cream

It made me laugh! I've decided to ignore them all

Don't think you pay tax on SMP flat rate... Not 100% sure so don't quote me!

People are too funny taking,glad you decided to ignore!

Back to the breast bottle thing, someone mentioned the first week thing... It really isn't something that can be adequately described. Feeding every hour is normal, it will hurt as our nips are delecate and let down is a right bitch. No one seems to talk at those bits which is why so man give upearl. If you plan to bf, I would recommend staying awafor ff top ups, as it can really damage our supply. Always do what's right for you though, too much emphasis on bf in m opinion, and I f for a year with D's and plan to feed this one too.

Yes every FF top up in the first weeks really hits your supply so can make the baby BF in a frenzy to build your dwindling supply, which wrecks your confidence that you're not making enough milk (remember you can't see how much milk is going in) which makes you add more FF which kills your supply - its a vicious circle. If you want to give BF a chance don't add formula for the first month.

If you have a screaming baby at 4am that wont latch isnt it better for everyones sanity just to give a bottle of formula though? I think if it's going to mean happy baby and happy mum I'm going for that option!

I've had so many BF is the only way to go for your babies immunity lectures from people at work/church that I sometimes feel like FF to pee them all off. It is really a sensitive topic as all mine and DH's family were FF apart from my two cousins. We all have healthy immune systems and they dont. I know theres other reasons and I'll give BF a go but I just get

Feeling a bit touchy this morning apart mothering techniques as MIL told me last night on our skype call that I am basically going to be a cruel mother. All because I wont be wrapping my baby up in fleece blankets and having extra heaters in the room to make sure she's nice and hot while sleeping. Obviously she knows best from over 30 years ago... Grrrrrr.

Just read my last post... Sorry if I seem a bit angry. Feel better for getting it off my chest and prob wont take out my MIL rage on DH now

I an on mixed feeding or at least giving some bottles of expressed milk from the start, for these reasons:

• I have some chronic health conditions that get v bad with sleep deprivation so I want DH to be able to do some feeds
• I am an anxious person so would like to actually see milk going in to the baby at least once a day

Let's see how we go. Overall I believe that for the baby to be healthy & happy then I need to be emotionally and physically in the best health I can be, which doesn't go with no sleep (in my case). I do think there is a ridiculous amount of pressure on women to BF exclusively from the very beginning and for as long as possible, which provoked anxiety/depression in a few of my friends when they couldn't manage it (generally because of tongue tie but also because of mastitis and on one case thyroid problems).

Enjoy Father's Day!

I've been awake for the last hour (it's 4.31am here). Am sick of pregnancy insomnia!

We're off to the beach today, the upside of living in New Jersey is that awesome beaches are close by. My FIL will join us. DS made DH a cute tie dye t shirt in preschool too (love pre school for taking the home made gift pressure off non-crafty me!). It's also roasting so I'm looking forward to some cool ocean breezes!

Absolutely must do what works best for you. My only advice would be don't pump for at least a week if you are planning to do it at all. You'll get next to nothing and will think baby isn't getting enough. Babies tummies are the size of small marbles to start so really only need a small amount at a time. Ff has less nutrition per ml so you feed a baby far more of it than bmilk which stretches the tummy. This is no bad thing if you're transitioning to ff but can mean that your baby needs more to feel full and so will not be satisfied with bmilk until supply has caught up. So formula is in fact quite a bad idea if you don't want to give it every day. My sil give a ff per day and the rest bf. It works perfectly due to consistency. Consistency is your best friend where feeding g is concerned.

My Ds was a monster feeder and wanted feeding every hour for months and months. Supply is increased at night which is why it seems to get worse when you most want to sleep. All these things are normal just really hard.

The professionals seem to be reluctant to state that it really doesn't matter how you feed your baby. It really doesn't! But if you want to bf, get support and don't give up. Ff is perfect for some and no one should make you feel guilt for doing what works best for you and your family...

(Sorry didnt mean to offend ) Very true but best option is to get the latch sorted asap so you don't have that problem - that might mean getting a tongue tie cut. And certainly means reading about BF beforehand if you want to increase your chances of it being easy and painless. I think we read so much on birth but then assume BF will just click when in a hospital with staff who just need the bed back and when you are knackered, groggy and all over the shop post birth.

I was FF and J had formula when in the NICU so I'm really not against it but I think the assumption that you can just add in FF from day 1 without it reducing your chances of BF long term needs challenging. You can after the first few weeks no worries at all. And as I say we did boob and expressed bottle right from the first week and I'd do the same again. Won't be doing FF this time (other than a dairy free formula if needed) as those first few days of formula probably triggered his cow's milk allergy and I'm not risking that shit again I'm really not wanting to watch this one suffer in the same way.

I was really not sure how I'd feed J, my sister was v pro BF and it almost put me off as she was so zealous ("morning milk contains hormones which wake them, night milk puts them to sleep, you can use BF to cure infant conjunctivitis, BM gives them healthy stomach flora" yadda yadda) but I do have to say BF was one of my favourite bits of the first year. You feel so proud of your body and the happy hormones are better than class As! It might be something you totally love or you might just be a slummy Mummy like me who hates washing up!

Anyway didn't mean to offend.

Full of cold feeling sorry for myself. On the plus side I might start investigating BF books, thanks ladies . For those who aren't ftm, is it easier to have a paperback book to refer to on things when the baby arrives rather than a kindle?

Happy hmmm as a reference book I'd probably go for paper for no real reason than habit and you can find passages in one easier (and turn over page corners!).. but then I read hundreds of books on my tablet (much easier when night feeding and you want to keep the light low)?

Hi from rainy holiday destination!! Absolutely pissing it down here! Oh well, at least we are having a break!

I bf for 9 months but introduced a bottle of expressed milk at 10pm every night so I could get some sleep. Worked very well! If you want to bf I also if you can, advise not using formula in early days as top up as can mean your body won't think it needs to produce any more milk as it's already meeting demand. There is definately a stage when they have a growth spurt or when your supply needs to respond that you will be like 'he/ she is not getting enough. There isn't enough milk" bit body usually adjusts!
Obviously this all depends on latch etc - ds had a tongue tie so once we got that sorted was much easier.

I am anti the pressure for bf though. It's cruel on mothers who really struggle / can't bf. can make some people feel like failures but then you aren't given the right support to enable you to bf successfully. Ie I had to wait 3 weeks on NHS to get tongue tie sorted so paid for private op. So they were willing to let us struggle for 3 wks. Just doesn't make sense!!

Fed up yes the NHS has it the wrong way round - shit loads of pressure to BF in pregnancy and no support post birth just desperate to get you out the door (which often means "didn't you read how to do it? oh you can't do it, here's how to make a bottle, right that took five mins, home you go") I was v lucky on the island as I could room in until BF was established. This was entirely optional but as J was in with jaundice anyway I said hell yes! - three meals a day, no housework, and someone looking after him while I slept! Maybe there should be maternity tourism to Orkney for good old fashioned care.... I hope I won't need to rely on the meagre resources where I live now. PS I think you need to change your user name!

Thanks for the Kate Evans book recommendations, I I have the bump one and bf one saved in my Amazon basket for payday, still have my Natal Hypno one to finish first anyway. Also ta for the bummis recommendation too Flip!
And Fedup yes maybe a new username would be good so you don't jinx yourself anymore!!
Had never heard of this "tongue tie" thing, another thing to read up on! I wonder if NHS don't let on about how difficult bf is so as not to scare people off, silly really, UK bf figures appear to be so poor so surely better education and support would be more beneficial, do other European countries (with better bf rates) have more support or are they just of a different mindset in general I wonder, maybe both?

yellow you didnt offend me I woke up in such a grump after spending half the night dreaming about mat pay and the rest mulling over my MIL's conversation! I have managed to be snappy with everyone I have spoken to today

First baby clothes sewn! So tiny (newborn size)

Tongue tie is a nightmare & totally agree that there is so much pressure to bf but not enough resources/info post birth to help with bf!

Both of mine had a tongue tie..I got DS's snipped on NHS when he was 10 days old but was really struggling with bfing then (was told to express in meantime which obv dwindled supply). With DD I had hers snipped privately at home on day 4 as my milk came in...made such a difference & NHS were 3 wks to even get a referral never mind treated.

A tongue tie is basically where the bit of skin between the tongue & floor of the mouth (the stretchy bit,called frenulum) isn't stretchy or is short & tight. Means baby can't get tongue out past the lips or gums...this in turn means that the tongue isn't long enough to cushion the nipple when breastfeeding, meaning lots of sucking from baby as they struggle to try to get the colostrum/milk & shredded nipples for the mum (mines bled too).

There's a big push/campaign by the nct at the mo about better resources for tongue tie. There's new research out there now too...it can be hereditary but there is some suggestion now that it could possibly be linked to taking folic acid supplements, however the benefits of taking the supplements far outweigh the risks..

I mixed fed both due to it (DS was dehydrated when I got home from 1st night in hospital...he would cry to every hour to be fed but would be asleep within 10 mins as he couldn't get anything/was shattered.. Every mw u asked in the ward that night said its fine, he's raking what he needs...but he passed some blood in his nappy when I was home. Tongue tie was finally picked up next day at discharge). As a result if my experience with DS, I got DD checked straight away for TT & also took in a starter pack of formula to hospital just in case. She had no problem whatsoever in switching between bottle & nipple tho I oh managed to bf til 9 wks with her as I kept feeling guilty about DS when I was feeding her (he always wanted to play etc with me & was always seeing me stuck to the sofa with DD stuck to me for a feed). But if I knew then when I had DS what I know now, I think I would have persevered with BF 1st time around.

That's just my personal experience...& with 3 under 4, I'm probably going to mix feed again, so that DH can help with the feeding too...