MARTIANS 2014 - Thread 7: Are you due next March? Do you have wrecking balls for breasts? Getting moist over iCandys? Then come and talk shyte with us..

[PramQueen1971]

Thread 6

Marking place -love the name Pram

ANY scan today?

Interesting thoughts on routines, Does anyone have any thoughts or used Jo Frost method?

Congrats on the good scans.

I agree totally with Lyra and Bionic. GF drove me to the brink with DS. I was sure, because of the way the book is written, all babies must be able to comply with the Gina routine. DS just didn't need that much sleep (and I was very stubborn and thick skinned with the crying) and was such an efficient feeder he fed 10 mins every 3-4 hours (so no hanging off boobs). He also preferred his own space to being cuddled. I binned the book before DD arrived. Both DD and DS slept through from 6 months in the end and I now totally accept that sleepless nights are what you sign up for when you chose to make a new life. Given I'll have two others (in their own happy routine which doesn't fit in with GF where you are effectively tied to the nursery), I'll be winging it sleep deprived this time. It's also my last baby (and one I didn't think we'd even have for a while) and I suspect I'll treasure every second of Velcro-ness.

On slings, I have two moby slings for newborns. I love them and so did DD. Pop baby in, wander round doing jobs until sleeps, sit on sofa with cuppa and cake. No screaming or rocking/patting or shushing in a dark room involved...

20 week scan on 15 October. I'm tempted by a sneaky gender scan in a couple of weeks though. I told work this week which went better than expected and I'll finish work mid-Jan which seems scarily close!

Marking place.

Morning all!

A whole new thread, la la la la la la la la...

Sorry, crazy busy (as I'm sure everyone is) so have a lot to catch up on.

Hope scans and work are going well, partners are behaving themselves (as much as can be expected) and everyone is starting to bloom!

Pram oh I'm so sorry if you thought that was a criticism in any way - it really wasn't, I could listen to you talk (or read what you type, rather) for hours! It's sad that all those amazing tales of adventure have caused you some heartache. But what amazing things you have seen/ done. And it sounds like you've come out the other side. So please keep telling us!

Rockchick I did the whole attachment thing with mine (not so keen on using the labels though as people seem to chuck you in the hippy/crunchy basket). It's just what made sense and came naturally to me and I'll be doing the same again.

Gina Ford. Two words to divide mothers everywhere. I do think that she may have a point despite not having had children as she can see things far less emotionally than we can (good or bad?). I also agree that, at least with mine, fiddling around with daytime sleep and sticking to something of a routine (easily done when you've got numerous school pickups/drop offs to do) helps.

However, I have two big concerns with her books. The first is that I've seen the stress caused when babies won't comply with what she says they should be doing. Parents feel like they are failing. And failing their children and it just spirals - where's the enjoyment in that?

Secondly, I know she says it somewhere but in reality, it encourages you to ignore your instincts. Instead of listening to and watching the baby, you looking at the clock and thinking - they should eat now etc etc. Prior to DC2 being diagnosed with severe silent reflux, my Gina-friendly friend was trying to give me helpful advice about letting him self soothe. Which I ignored. Imagine how guilty I'd have felt if I'd let him do that and then realised he'd been I excruciating pain?

So basically, as has been said (sorry!), read it and take some of it to use but ultimately listen to your instincts.

Happy day all!

I like the look of that book Rock

Wearing my new H&M maternity tights for the first time and they're sooo long. I'm 5'7. Do they think we grow taller in pregnancy too??

Morning all

Pram, you've been a bit over keen with the stats list and removed a few active people - I'm going to reinstate the old list but remove those that haven't posted since "joining" the thread

my 2p on parenting GF or not - you'll do what works for you and your baby that's it... Nothing special or ground breaking, GF works for some, not others attachment works for some, where as the thought drives others bonkers, we as a species have been coping as parent without labels and routines for thousands of years and we'll continue to manage by doing what works for us at the time

Thanks for the link Rock - that looks right up my street!

MTB, who have I removed who hasn't posted for ever?

Teddy, I am not being facetious here but how is a baby feeding for only ten minutes every 3-4 hours 'efficient feeding'? Surely a baby can not be sated in this time? I am learning, so please don't do nuts.

I am quite aware that Gina Ford will work only with some dedication and lots of hard work. However, to suggest a baby does not benefit from regimes and structure is plain bonkers to me. I will never leave my baby to scream its head off for hours on end but I shall Gina's routine before resorting to demand feeding

Mumsnet was almost closed down due to some serious allegations made about Gina Ford and her methods by hysterical hippy mumsnetters who accused her of child abuse.

On the subject of Gina Ford evoking feelings of 'failure' in new mums, I know full well that those feelings will afflict us all at some point, no matter whose advice we are following. Part of the territory with a newborn, isn't it?

Morning all. Enjoying the debate around routines. It's so individual and there is no one size fits all. I see it as a spectrum with attachment parenting (slinging, co sleeping, less routine) on one end of the spectrum and Gina ford ( baby learning your routine) at the other end. Lyra what you said totally chimes with my view (but not feeling as eloquent this morning!) . I personally wouldn't use Gina ford though, to me it conflicts with my own ideas & attachment theory. . However I also believe in structure and routine and saw ds two cousins ( both Velcro 3 years on don't sleep/separate well ) and I really did n't want that either.We loved Tracey Hogg The Baby Whisperer and it gave a great happy medium of the two extremes, so you have a less rigid but routine, you break the feeling/sleeping link , you are responsive encourage self soothing also. DS and our sanity benefited and he's a v good sleeper still althoughI aagree there's an element of luck to that. I'll be using her ideas again next time too although baby's gonna have to fit in with our existing routine too

Slippers, you lovely girl, what did you say that may have irked me? Nowt! I am flattered by your compliments and thank you for them

I'm off to work in t'charity shop with Joan this morning

• feeding/sleeping

That's just what some babies do Pram. It depends in your let down, the way your breasts produce milk, the technique of the baby, diet, the content of your milk and a whole lot of other things. He only ever fed from one side too. GF and her "30 mins on the left, and 10 on the right" or other such nonsense was never going to work as my baby didn't work like that. He was clearly sated as if you offered again before he was ready it was declined. DD fed for longer at a time but this didn't influence her ability to nap more than 30 mins at a time for the first 6 months - but am sure we'll get on to that next July...

Most babies will find some sort of natural pattern, mostly one that fits in around their parents and the eat, do sleep that all humans have. GF just doesn't acknowledge this or that for some babies this will come in time. Those children I know who don't have this sort of pattern (or took longer to develop it) are those with parents who don't follow the norms in terms of a daily routine. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at the other end of the spectrum and, with some encouragement, by 6 months, both my children had a morning nap about 9, an afternoon nap about 1 and were in bed by 7. But most my friends babies did too, whether they had followed GF or not.

I agree it's all personal choice and depends on the baby and personal circumstances. I also agree its wrong to assume you need to be GF or attachment. There is a happy middle ground based on a combination of lots of different techniques and mum's instinct.

MTB Can we update our stats to include our real due dates? Or shall we just leave them as they are?

Morning all! Loving the debate. Hope no one gets offended though. It's good to have a good old rigorous barney exchange of ideas.
I'm Team Lyra. Just go with the flow! You wouldn't have a big ol' list of how you wanted your future partner to live his life day to day before you had even met him, so why would you with a baby? They aren't just animatronic potatoes (even though they look like them) - they do all have their own personalities you know! Getting to know them and finding out what they like is NOT the same as letting them trample you into the ground.

Teddy that's what both mine were like too. Quick feeders. I also know from expressing that I have a really quick let-down reflex; I could get about 6 oz during one half of Corrie!!! DS fed every 2-3 hours in the early days and DD every 3-4 hours; neither of them lost weight so they were definitely getting what they needed to grow. So that's why I liked the structure of the GF routine in terms of sleep, but the feeding regime just would not have worked for me and my babies.

Babies and children do feel secure within a daily routine but they also feel secure if they know that mummy or daddy is there when they need them. My friend is lending me her cloth wrap for the early days which I think will be really useful - it's so stressful trying to get food ready for older kids when you can hear baby crying in the background. Bit nervous of how to use it though so only used baby bjorn for DD, she'd have a little nap in it whilst I'd prepare DS's food. That last nap of the day is often a nightmare which is why even Gina suggests taking them out in the buggy for that one, but that's easier said than done when it's 4.30pm and bigger kids are demanding their dinner!

Our routine this time will have to be structured around the school runs which I'm hoping will work out quite nicely - little morning and afternoon naps on the way to and from school and a lunchtime nap which will probably start when I pick DD up from preschool at lunchtime, so I'll have to dump baby in the cot when we get home from that. Basically once the dust has settled I'll see what works best for us. It will be... interesting!?!

It's pouring here today. I need school to start!!!

Oooh what a nice sparkly new thread! Been AWOL for a bit so am just skimming now so am probably missing everything sorry - had extreme hip/back pain and am avoiding going to hospital but dp is now insisting after last night when i couldn't move.

BORING QUESTION: does anyone know anything about maternity pay/how it works if you have your own company? would we be effectively paying me maternity pay from the company etc? not sure if this is relevant but me and dp are the only shareholders (50/50) and are the company directors, company was incorporated in october last year. am avoiding the accountant as end of year is coming up and don't have the energy.

do we have a recommended book list on all that are worth a look that we can compile at all? bamboozled!

Grey hope your back is easy to sort out - any ideas what's up with it? Re mat pay, are you a partnership or limited company?

Pram I stand corrected you've just used the top from rather than the latest, so the dates are a bit screwy

Hot I've tried to keep the stats updated with the new dates, but if you just put a note on the stats thread I'll make sure you get updated

rock thanks! i think its pgp after reading up, but not entirely sure, my knee goes out of joint so i don't have the best track record which is why its so worrying! its a limited company so I have a feeling maternity pay may be counter productive which is crap haha!

You can get SMP from the business, so 6 weeks at 90% salary then £136 a week for 36 weeks. The business can then claim back from the gov here and can pay yourself a bonus in qualifying weeks to increase your 6weeks 90% pay however just found this that implies its not worth doing (although I know others who have done it!). Hope that helps a bit!

Grey better to get it checked out sooner rather than later. Sounds like physio would be good for you. A book list sounds like a good idea, maybe a thread on FB?

Pram I imagine Joan wears a cardigan and makes endless cups of tea?

It's really useful reading all this debate from those of you who've done it before!

I'm feeling crap today (entirely self-indulgent). I miss my body and my clothes and having normal looking boobs! Going out with a load of DP's friends tomorrow and I've got absolutely nothing to wear. And now I feel guilty for moaning.

I hope somebody answers your question grey because I have the same one and I'm really confused.

I only incorporated my LTD company a few months ago and are just about to start trading. We are going to make peanuts for the first few months so I'm not really sure what to do.

Based on my employment history for the past few years I should be entitled to MA from the Government, but I can't claim that if I'm self employed.

It seems silly though. Because I could literally make no money over the next few months, but because I'm trying to, I'm not entitled to anything.

I can't pay myself SMP from the business and then claim it back because I haven't made any yet.

Hello - I'm still here (but fell off the stats list....probably due to the fact I only posted once on the last thread - really struggling to keep up!). 12 week scan next Thurs so hopefully after that I'll have more energy (will the fatigue ever end??). Re 'the debate' - I'm of the 'stick em in a sling and get on with life' variety rather than 'sorry I can't meet you today because x always naps between 1 & 3 and I can't leave the house' (I have known mothers who virtually imprisoned themselves during mat leave through their determination to follow the GF method to the letter). As with all things, a healthy balance between the various methods probably works the best. Pick and choose the elements that suit you and your baby.

Wow another new thread!

Just had my letter through for my next scan, 2nd November when I will be 21 weeks.

Feeling shite today, really tired and pukey. The kids are going to the in laws tonight for a sleepover. They haven't been for 3 years and they are so, so excited! I'm excited too to go out with dh and remember that we are actual people not just parents.