We will BROOK NO ARGUMENT on having serene, pain free, uncomplicated pregnancies and sneeze births! Vol 8

[ScreamIfYouWantToGoFaster]

Hello ladies! I can't wait to see how many No Brooking babies arrive during the course of this thread!! Do you realise we have now filled SEVEN threads (and that's just the graduates!) That's 7000 posts and counting!

Let's all get settled in for some serious No Brooking, we have a lot of painless sneeze births to get through over the next couple of weeks!

Fibroids don't actually have any symptoms generally - no pain. I was completely unaware of them until my first scan and they haven't grown through the pregnancy. The fibroids increase my risk of excessive bleeding via ANY method of delivery: successful vb or cs. However the consultant didn't mention the vb risk before, it's something I found out independently. She thinks because the risk of bleeding with a cs is high I shouldn't have one, however the risk with an emcs is MUCH higher than with an elcs, because during labour your body diverts lots of extra blood to the uterus. Plus this consultant is the one who told me that it would be dangerous for me to have a cs carried out by anyone other than a highly experienced senior consultant, but my hospital only has a consultant (rather than a registrar) available for 60% of the week, so if I need an emcs at 3 a.m. my surgery would have to be carried out by someone without the right experience.

Through all this there's the issue that my hips make an emcs MUCH more likely than for an average person, because I can't walk around or get into good positions for labour, and I can't open my knees wide enough.

This is starting to look like the letter I wrote to the consultant! I shouldn't keep rehashing it all. I don't think I'm anymore "deserving" of a cs than you Biscuits or anyone else though! You have excellent reasons for wanting a cs, and yet you're still considering a vb if the baby comes soon - which is impressive! Every person's situation should be considered individually to see what's best for them (instead of just blindly applying stupid policies like 'SPD does not equal a cs'!)

I totally agree Scream - I was thinking earlier that you'd be much more likely to end up with a situation where you need intervention, and they'll struggle to do forceps or anything, and as you say an EMCS is so much more risky.

Just saw your second post Biscuits thanks! That's a really handy way of looking at things! I definitely need to structure my thoughts in a concise and logical way, I'm worried I'll just be in pain when I see her and gabble/cry/become incoherent!

As for after - I'm sure she'll just say no, so I need to make it clear that it's not the end of the issue. I think she could refer me for "counselling" if she thinks it's just maternal anxiety. If she doesn't refer me to counselling I will directly ask her to refer me back to the other consultant for further discussion. It's complicated because my antenatal care is at a hospital near me, which doesn't have a labour ward (or A&E). However I'm actually booked into a hospital a bit further away for the birth itself, and THAT'S the hospital where I sent a letter to the consultant in charge of the obstetrics dept. I tried to go around the evil consultant on the basis that the other hospital would actually be carrying out the cs, but the other consultant says that at this stage the discussion is still an antenatal issue and I have to go through the evil one!

Apologies for hijacking the thread with a bit of a brain dump! I'm just a bit stuck in my head today, sorry for being so self-absorbed!

No apology needs Scream - I can't see how that wouldn't take over your brain!

And we all need our brooking to be behind you on Tuesday (or a week on Tues?). Is your DH able to go to the appt too?

Thanks for all your support Biscuits it really helps! The appt is next Tues, and DH will be there but he's incapable of arguing with authority figures

You need my patented Operation Advocate!!! The self study guide is available in all good bookshops

Even if you just know that DH understands each argument and the counter arguments so he can step in if you get upset. And at least you have your IMW there - will you have a chance to prep with her first?

The appt has only been booked today so I don't know if she's free yet. If she does come she'll back me up by reminding me of things I wanted to raise, but she can't really argue directly with the consultant on my behalf because she technically has no authority to speak for me.

I wish operation advocate would work on my DH! However I think with yours you're making sure he brings his assertive work-self to the labour ward. Whereas mine doesn't have an assertive side! (Except when arguing with me! ) DH's whole family are surgeons, GPs, anesthetists, etc - and he has this completely disproportionate awe/acceptance of anything he is told by a doctor. So frustrating. He supports my choice, but he would never directly argue with a doctor! That's part of the reason why we hired the indep mw as additional support, back at the start of my pg when we assumed I'd be having a normal pg & birth!

scream I'm mid bath time so not much time but don't panic, I'm sure you will get your CS. NICE guidelines, your symptoms, everything combined. This consultant may surprise you this time, and you can of course ask for a second opinion from a different consultant.

I agree with Dream, Scream that I am assuming your symptoms are worse now. Surely once the consultant can see the pain you're in that will swing the balance. And you have all your extra evidence and physio letter etc.

Failing all else I could lend you my DH for an afternoon (to be an advocate, not to do the CS - he's not that adaptable )

The NICE guidelines are more of a hinderance than a help I think, they've just made the docs really defensive! My hospital has loads of signs up everywhere saying that the NICE guidelines are not binding and do not mean that the hospital has an obligation to provide cs's on demand. The skewed media coverage has led to a big rise in women requesting cs with no medical reasons (which I fully support their right to do!) but this increase has really annoyed all the docs...

Is it as simple as just asking for a second opinion from someone else Dream? How would you do that? If you can't agree with the cons. do you just say 'well I want a second opinion' and they have to arrange it?

at Biscuits' DH showing up at my door with a cs kit-in-a-bag following Biscuits' request for him to go to the aid of a No Brooker! Hee hee!

I'm sure there's a video on YouTube that he could copy from Scream? I mean it can't be that hard can it

To echo Ninja.. you do all talk a lot!

Scream, I'm so sorry you're feeling so rubbish - and that you're so uncomfortable. I think what your doctor said was completely outrageous - can you not get a second opinion or another doctor..?

Dream, I'm so sorry you're having to worry about DD and picking her up. Other than making everything into a game like everyone else suggests, I have no ideas to help, I'm sorry :( I can't think how you could manage the cot... unless you could lower it (if it has a lowerable mattress?) and take off the side to help her get in, depending on how low it goes?

Hope your ankle repairs quickly Jen!

Too, I have also been a sufferer of bloody snot more recently. It's definitely increased as the weeks have gone by! Glad the injection went well - Friday's so close! So exciting!

Scarlet, so sorry to hear your DS is still ill :( The fact he's laughing sounds good though?

Biscuits, yay for full term! (if I haven't already said it).

Three and a half weeks of work left! Not that I'm counting or anything.. . Beginning to suffer quite a bit from back ache alongside the rib ache. To be honest I'm impressed I've survived thus far in pregnancy with very few back problems considering my past history! Interestingly my back hurts less when I'm working (teaching) but more when on trains and at home 'relaxing', which I think says more about my posture than anything else .

Off to write music for an hour then to settle down in front of the TV for OBEM - DH is away for the rest of the week so I'm making the most of my one night in without him! May have to raid what's left of the Christmas chocolate...

musical you have Christmas chocolate left?! Wouldn't have survived in my house, quantity irrelevant....

scream, they are just that- guidelines. I don't think any tom dick or harry should be able to have an ELCS if they just fancy one for being, for example, afraid of a natural birth (I'm not talking about proper phobias, or fears based on experience etc etc, but I would have considered one for my first birth from pure fear of labour which actually the CD I did later in the pg cured me of! and my tear is unusual). I think many, many women don't have the understanding of the pros and cons you do, or weigh up benefits versus risks properly when thinking they'd want one, plus the NHS is a finite resource. But you will get one as there are medical reasons, you're educated and well informed of risks/benefits etc etc. You can ask for a second opinion, and to find out how I'd contact PALS (patient advisory and liaison service) Every hospital has one. You don't have to stick with that one consultant. Maybe I'll send my DH down, he's assisted on 45 CS's (as he keeps bloody telling me) and can't get my fears- keeps saying it's no biggie (err, no dear, I'm sure holding the retractors as an SHO isn't ). He is good at talking me through what they'll actually do though!

No more OBEM for me, I've decided not to watch it, much better . Sorry your back is giving you problems though musical, though maybe if its better at work a bit more attention to posture at home may lessen it... Poor you. Hope this is as bad as it gets.

Good decision dream re OBEM. It was vom week this week - just about the worst thing that I could have seen. All 3 of them vomming away, I had the volume right down and was hiding behind the cushion. Should have just switched it over.

I'm pleased you're sorting out getting some help for when the babies arrive. The lifting thing will obviously be a problem, I hope you can rope some family members in for days when you won't be having any hired help.

Scream I'm sorry to hear it's not the straightforward request you were hoping it would be. I've no knowledge or experience so there's nothing I can add to what others have said. I'm sure though that there must be a way of insisting on meeting with another consultant if you feel that your allocated one has dismissed your concerns without consideration. It can't be right that you would be expected to take one person's word for it when you're so against doing so.

I'm off to bed now to try and sleep before my groundhog day starts again. Plumber's in again tomorrow, DS still ill, DH still working long days etc etc.

Not much Christmas chocolate at all now Dream. We've both been very good, but we're definitely on the last few bits now!

It was a bit vom-tastic tonight, wasn't it scarlet. To be honest, the other bodily fluids worry me less - I just hate actually being sick! I've been very lucky it's only happened a few times while PG (despite feeling sick an awful lot at the beginning!). Oddly I can handle other people's vom (like DH the other night), but just hatehatehate it if it's my own...

Dream, I shouldn't really complain about the back - in comparison to what everyone else is suffering, I don't think it's much at all! I think being on the sofa at home doesn't help, whereas when at a piano stool at work (which is what I'm sitting on the majority of the time - or a chair ready to play an instrument, where you don't lean back) I sit in a ready-to-play posture, which I worked on hard with physios/AT people to ensure didn't hurt my back. Think I need to spend the evening on a less comfy chair (boo!) which will make me feel better in the long run (yay!).

Hello, still ill house here! I am feeling a bit better and Dd has almost finished her anti biotics I might need to get her checked out again as she is still coughing but less chest infectiony and more general coughy. If that makes any sense!

I have been having some twinges, I know it doesn't mean much, at least my body is gearing up though. :)

Scream I would be tempted to switch my care to another consultant, well to the other hosp actually if things didn't go my way! Your only 32 weeks so time is on your side, you have time to fight this! And Cs is most definitely not a soft option! It is major abdominal surgery, something I am keen to point out to kindly inlaws and the like who perhaps start to believe in the too posh to push bollocks!
I would research in particular what the consultant said about hysterectomy in relation to your fibroids. Maybe they do increase your chances a little bit? Anyway, if you find out and quantify it, you can throw it in their face. Sorry if you have looked into it already, it is 2.30am!

For OBEM and the vomming, I have to say this was very much my experience, the force of my contractions, then the gas and then my reaction to the syntometrine meant I was very sick all along. Luckily not when I was pushing!
I do also think it is useful to have an episode like this as my Mum had said she was sick the once and then she really knew things were going to kick off and she would deliver soon as she had this happen with all her three births. So, I wasn't unaware that being sick happened, just unaware that it could to such an extent!

Too so glad your injection wasn't too bad. I am really excited for you, so soon! And slightly as I am still pg, although the time isn't right yet with everyone ill! A weekend is still best for me, so I am brooking for that!

What were you doing up at such an ungodly hour, Purple? Twinges, you say? Tell us more! I have been wide awake since 3.30 and put the light on to read at 4. Still not sleepy...Not sure if this is related to the injection, or being a bit overexcited in general, or whether it's just pregnancy insomnia.

I was sick with the epidural. The top ups made me throw up, until they remembered to give me the anti-emetic (not until I had been sick for the second time, violently, all over the floor). After that I was ok.

Scream, your consultant sounds dreadful! If I were you I would get some help onside - maybe your mum or a friend would be better at being your advocate than DH? Or one of his surgical relatives? I would also go in armed with facts, figures and statistics of risks in writing so she can't confuse you.

Musical, hope your back recovers a bit soon.

Scarlet, Brooking that tomorrow is a better day for you and DS!

Biscuits, what does the A stand for in your TBRAIN thingie? It seems v helpful for making your thoughts clear.

Oh yes - good point Too - I missed the A out

A = alternative courses of action

Purple the twinges are no doubt just starting to gear you up for that birth at the weekend. This will allow you to get everyone better over the next two days, check up on the news from Too on Friday and then have a lovely relaxed birth over the weekend. Perfect

Too sorry to hear you couldn't sleep - I bet it's a combo of pregnancy insomnia and just having such a lot on your mind. Do you have another pre op appt today?

Scarlet - you're a tough cookie to sit through a vomming OBEM knowing how you feel about it. This clearly indicates that you will stroll through labour without so much as a second glance at any pain that dares to try and show up.

Scream hope you're feeling better about things today. I have no doubt you will have a watertight foolproof plan in place by Tuesday.

I meant to say in all the lifting stuff yesterday Dream - it sounds great that you're getting some help in for a couple of days a week. Good luck with the interviewing etc

My bump is starting to feel super heavy at the bottom. It feels as though the baby has perhaps moved down a little more. If I try to lean forward I feel as though it's completely impossible and I would be squashing the baby iyswim? I feel even more whale like (if possible?). However I do think that this doesn't necessarily mean that anything is going to happen imminently, just that I'm going to notch up a level of uncomfortableness until the baby does decide to make an entrance

Yes, my second steroid injection and some pre-op blood tests. It's at 10 and we have to get petrol before we go, so will have to post and run. Will reply properly later on!

I won't bother listing all my whinges- too many!! But i feel like I'm at too's stage, sleep incredibly elusive, must be right at the end... But I'm not... Sigh. And cramp is getting me now, despite being careful.

We've had one respondent to our ad. It's hard as we want wed and Fri to fit in with when dh is off and parents can help. An older lady- I'm already worried she'll be in the controlled crying camp!! Still, we'll interview her.

This is very inconvenient purple, your poor dd (& you), this Friday is meant to be D-day!!! I hope dd picks up soon- mines still coughing though and its been months. Think these coughs are hard to shake. So, these twinges, gearing up for a weekend birth?!

Aw, hope all the poorly people feel better soon and these timely sneeze and/or CS births occur on schedule.

What does it mean when you feel like you have a really bruised fanjo? Have been feeling a bit achy the last week or so and wondering if i should be doing something to avoid overstraining myself.

Off to occupational health today coincidentally so should maybe mention it...(yes it's a bit late for an assessment but they seem to have failed to notice there were pregnant ladies about!)