The 'We are brooking no arguments whatsoever for an uneventful pregnancy and pain-free birth' thread

[Biscuitsandtea]

Ladies, our previous thread was getting full so here is a lovely new shiny home for us all.

I've put some comfy cushions around and plenty of pregnancy safe snacks and drinks. The Segway park is in the corner over there next to the stack of glittery vom buckets (plenty of extra buckets too for all the newbies).

In the corner over here you'll find our library of leaflets including sections on early pregnancy private scan clinics, pushchairs and car seats.

Hope you all like it very much :)

at the weeing incident! Is the Sky box still working, Biscuits?

Scream, hoping for an update soon!

Brooking for Bartlet too.

Wants, hope your sister gets on okay!

Dream, ouch with the many attempts at getting blood. Glad you kept your MW straight!

Have been lurking a bit for the last few days - tired, stressed and completely petrified about amnio on Monday. I have arranged for the community MW to come round first thing on Tues to listen to the heartbeat, though, so that might help with the post-amnio mc fears. She said she could come back every day next week if I need her to, so I might just take her up on it. I am starting to feel more kick-like twinges now, which will also help. I'm still not really 100% sure they're kicks, but I'm getting surer.

Oops, cross posted. So sorry to hear that, Meme. How will they handle it?

oh too, my SIL had amnio's with both hers as she had a whopping downs score. They were both just perfect, as I really hope your little bean will be. So bloody frightening though, I can't quite imagine... If I had a downs blood test, because its twins, if if didn't show conclusive low risk (and our hospital trust, unsurprisingly, doesn't do the twins blood test either) becuase they wouldn't know which twin it was it'd be amnio for both for me, so i had an inkling of how frightening it could be to agree to it. I think you're doing the right thing though fwiw. Its only a 1 in 150 chance of post-amnio mc though isn't it?

wants, a new niece or nephew for you very soon, how exciting!

I've had my best day since I got ms today. And I have eaten like a pig!!!! I'm huge. Scarily huge already. Just my tummy, but I wonder if its all bloating, or if it could be bump?? 13 weeks tomorrow.

scarlet, your new due date is one day before mine, except mine will come before that, prob 38 weeks, they don't let you go longer than that in this trust I think.

Now where's that stats thread...

Oh, meme and Too. I am doing extra brooking for you both.

oh, meme, thats rubbish. Does it mean you get your section though? At least they know and will monitor you... You poor thing

Oh Too - lots of hugs and brooking your way. Lovely to hear from you though Have been thinking about you lots and lots. I do hope Monday comes round ASAP for you. That's really good that your mw is being so helpful. I'd take her up on it too if I were you, definitely. If nothing else it helps to guide you through that week. And really good that you're feeling movements too. I thought I was a week or two ago but nothing for a while now. But probs the baby has moved as presumably they have plenty of room in there now? Have mw tomorrow so am hoping they'll find a heartbeat

Meme sending done hugs your way too. What does that mean in terms of treatment / things you have to do differently? I have to say I worry about this due to my sugar intake Hope they can give you lots of helpful support.

Oh and the sky box is still working luckily for ds - phew!

Looking forward to hearing from Scream and Bartlet

Oooh, Dream, Meme, could GD mean a CS? How come?

biscuits, was random optimism from me as meme's DD was big and ended in an EMCS, but her consultant was dictatorial about no choice about trying for VBAC. I just thought GD= big baby= often induced/sectioned earlier?? Am I wrong? that's common for me to be wrong

So. I googled the NICE guidelines for multiple pregnancies, because I don't really trust my antenatal care (as hospital is in the red alert and all). It says the risk of Downs is higher for all multiple pregnancies, and nuchal fold scanning witht the combined multiples bloodtest should be carried out and the woman counselled about the increased risk. Well, I don't get any of that. Then onto needing growth scans every 28 days from 20 weeks (I hope I get that- mw thought I would) Also talked about the increased chances of stillbirth, particularly if the pregnancy be allowed to continue over 38 weeks (I do think our trust doesn't let twins go past 38). The guidelines also say DCDA twins should be offered elective birth from 37 weeks 0 days. I really hope I get offered some of this!!!! Kind of resigned to no Downs stuff, but the rest I want. Errr, why am I such a fool, and why do I keep frightening myself?! Can someone like hawthers or biscuits come back and talk some more sense into me, AGAIN?! Then I'll be back No Brooking for all and sundry.

Any news yet??

Hi ladies!

Good to hear from you Too, we're keeping up the No Brooking for you even while you're offline! I do hope Monday comes quickly for you, and positive news follows shortly afterwards! How lovely that the mw has offered to come round everyday next week, sounds like an excellent idea!

Meme sorry to hear about the GD. Can you control it with diet or will you need insulin as well? Thinking of you and your little one.

I hope Bartlet has had a great scan.

Thinking of Wants and her sister too!

My indep mw appt went really well, she seems lovely. She gave us loads of information (she was here for 1 1/2 hours, and it's nothing like a booking in appointment, it was all her giving us info and answering our questions). I really liked her attitude to the whole process, she's very positive and focused on practical solutions, plus she's not in any way "earth mothery".

Her positive attitude is always immediately backed up by real experiences and the physiology of childbirth. For example I mentioned how I had felt petrified somewhat concerned (ahem) when one of my doctor friends mentioned how "all women in labour reach a point where they say they can't do it anymore, they can't go on." My friend was presenting this as a silly reaction to have, when obviously there's no turning back. However for me it was terrifying to think of reaching such a low point, completely rock bottom, and having to continue. The mw immediately said that she knows exactly the moment my friend was referring to, and it's usually transition. She said that she prefers to view transition as a really positive moment in the labour (to which I gave a very skeptical look) but she then went on to say that up until that point you really have no idea how long the labour will continue for. However once you've reached transition, you can suddenly see that your body is gearing up for the second (much shorter!) phase. She says she always takes that moment in a labour to focus the mother on the fact that she's really almost there, that she's only an hour or two away from actually holding her baby, and that this will all be over soon. I felt like that was such a USEFUL positive thing to say! She also went on to explain exactly what is happening to your uterus at the time of transition, and therefore why a women who's been coping well up until then will suddenly be thrown by the changes. I could really imagine how having her with me would make the whole experience calmer and easier to endure.

Anyways, I need to stop waffling now because I've had to bring a ton of work home with me and I'll be up until at least midnight trying to get it all done . It really was a great meeting though. I think she also reassured DH a lot with regard to his role. We're going to wait until we get the results back from scan/tests on fri, but I think we're going to book her. It helps that she's been an independent mw in this area for over ten years, so she knows the mws at the hospital I'm booked in at really well, and how to make their system work for you. She really inspired a lot of confidence.

Oh, and she has two cats, plus my two cats loved her! So clearly she's the one! {grin]

Oops! Apologies for the mammoth post! I hadn't realised I was waffling quite so much!

hawthers I hate those fully abled people who run onto a train (often ignoring the people who are getting off, and barging past others) just to get to a seat. Good on you for getting her out of the seat! Will do some searching about the train company I use most (c2c) and see if they do anything similar - as I'm likely to be commuting by rail nearly every day during term time until I get some lovely maternity leave..

scarlet, so glad to hear your scan went well! Less glad about the first puke :( Hope you're enjoying being able to tell family members! Looking forward to that myself )

meme and Too, brooking lots for both of you.

dream, glad you've had such a good day! As there are two in there, surely it could easily be a bump at 13 weeks? How exciting!

Pretty sure my 'bump' is still just major bloating. Would quite like it to move on out of my pelvis, as the needing to wee every 10 minutes is getting somewhat tiresome (I don't actually have to go that often, but get the urge almost constantly - maddening!).

Also on the hunt for Bartlet's news...

Right Dream I'm here!

Firstly, well done for reading up on what you should be offered. I'm very proud of you (and I don't mean that to sound patronising). Given your hospital's reputation, it is really important that you know what should be happening so you can put your foot down and stand up for yourself. And get DH to fight your corner too. Especially good since he's medicalised etc.

Now, as for this arriving early malarky, I'm having none if it! I think Too said that 37 weeks is considered full term for multiples so we can allow them to come a little before then if required but other than that, just not having it! You know what you're entitled to and how to get the best care out of them. You will be brooking no argument about what they do for you, and we'll be right behind you looking menacing should anyone even consider arguing with you.

You're going to get the growth scans and they will be keeping an eye on you to make sure all is well. And I will just take this opportunity to remind you (because you know it really) that you are naturally more aware of what can happen because of your job, but as you say yourself, this does give you a skewed view of things slightly. You don't get to see the very many multiple births that are problem free.

And last, but not least, we're all here for you! We're rooting for you and here for any advice (even if we're not necessarily technically qualified ) or any time you're second guessing yourself.

You may be the one actually carrying those twins but I consider this to be a team event and we're all on your team xxx

Not sure yet I have just been excessively thirsty so spoke to gp during DD appointment he did my blood sugar which was 10 supposed to be less than 7 and I hadn't eaten for 6 hours and only drank water all day he said see my midwife urgently and get a blood sugar machine, keep a record of the readings so we will wait n see what happens x

Tool brooking for u so hard thank god for midwife make sure u rest afterwards xx

musical, I needed to wee for one reason or another pretty much all through my last pregnancy- it was so lovely when it was over and that was it, almost normal weeing again!!!! I got --very told off- reminded about tablets being important by my midwife today as she gazed in horror at my bright yellow super concentrated wee sample I did for her on the spot (not literally) as I'd forgotten, as per usual. So I'm still weeing quite a lot even thouh I'm still running a bit on the dry side!

I almost want to measure my bump to inform you of the true horror of it (don't forget I carried big last time- 98th centile with one ) Hang on, I'm going to do it... 84cm or 33" (my jeans are a 27" waistband ) Obviously I measured my bump bit, not my waist (I'm still wearing those jeans) but it used to be flat-ish, not do the football-smuggler look. Also sure its bloating. I think.

scream, am fascinated. I'd LOVE an independent midwife now! She sounds very sensible. Plus you know she'll be with you the whole time. I had a bad experience (in a notorious bad trust) but found I was often alone, and once, was totally alone as DH had gone for food and to buy a carpet but that's a whole different story without a buzzer in reach when a sudden difficulty with my epidural meant I went from being ok to being in total agony (as the synto drip just gets put up and up with induction...) in about 60 seconds and I was totally alone, stuck on the bed on the monitors, couldn't get to the gas and air or the buzzer and it was grim for a bit. Really grim. Partly because I was exhausted and scared (by the whole thing by that point, plus I thought I was near section time), but I was also scared as I was alone. Do it!!! Book her!!! I love her comments about transition. I know that feeling ( I thought |I knew it several times) but when it really did come, I had my baby 20 minutes later!!!! Any other gems you can share? She sounds amazing.

oh, biscuits, thats a lovely post, thank you!

Sorry, cross posted with loads of people there (took me ages to write my last post on the iPad )

Scream so glad your independent mw went well. I'm curious (but understand this might be a bit of a personal question) about how much an independent mw costs. As I say, I totally understand if you don't want to divulge that though .

It certainly sounds as though she knows her stuff, and I think it would be lovely to have someone who knew you all the way through there through the birth. I think we were lucky when we had ds that we had one mw in the labour room from about 6 or 7 am until ds was born at 2:30, bar a 20 min break (which at the time I found the longest 20 mins). I realise now that this isn't normal procedure and often people are left to it all on their own, which terrifies me. I wonder if we got a dedicated mw because I was not yet 37 weeks, so was being monitored? I might ask my mw about that tomorrow actually?

Now don't work too hard Scream xx

Musical your commute sounds awful - I don't miss commuting in London at all. I hated it and was not suffering like you have been. I did commute on a train to birmingham during my last of, and normally got a train to work, but used to struggle on the way home. I just used to make sure I got down into the carriage, but the seats, and (once I had a bump) huff and puff and look generally uncomfortable and someone always offered me their seat. However, I think it is different out of London and people are often a little less 'self absorbed' on their commute.

Until you have a bump though, it's jolly difficult unless you have the guts to say something (which I never ever did )

Hope bartlet is ok

dream lots of positive lovely thoughts for you - it will be fine and that is that x

biscuits, I was an unfavourable induction starved for section throughout after prolonged rupture of membranes (so infection risk for me and baby but only me ended up on antibiotics) and I was left on my monitors and stuck A LOT but you know about the trust i'm in Ask your mw, I'd love to know

I'm also v curious about independent mw costs. As we have to buy a Fun Bus (aka MPV) for these little tykes, it is not an option, sigh. Unless DH would like to up his working hours, which he has been offered and I may have suggested he did some out-of-hours work , but I think I need him at home once I have 3 more than I want the money (he's part time. Kind of, though still works more hours than I did full time. But paid for part time!)

Right, first post copied from the conception thread (apologies for repeating):

Back from the hospital.

Scan with a lovely little baby with a lovely little flickering heartbeat. Makes all the vomiting worthwhile. Measuring about 8 weeks, which is about right.

The consultant doing the scan was great as well. He said that if things don't settle, I should be seen early at the Early Pregnancy Unit for bloods and IV fluids as a day case, and they will repeat that as many times as they have to. I can definitely see the logic in early treatment, I don't want to end up with a full-on emergency admission like last time. He was great, even if he did joke that by being a doctor and having a home birth, I was letting the side down.

Off to bed now, still being sick but with a smile on my face. Looking forward to ?Friday's scanathon now.

Oh bartlet, wonderful news! How exciting. I hope the day case treatment works, and you don't get hyperemesis until 30 weeks like last time. Fingers crossed!

It's only my doctor friends I know who have had a home birth!! They know too well what can happen in hospital!

Biscuits, not wanting to be left to it was one of the reasons I booked a home birth. I knew that intervention rates etc are less with constant midwife care, so, even though (because this is just how doctors give birth) I felt it was likely that I'd end up in hospital needing an emergency section, I wanted to give myself the best chance at the start, and in the end, it was fine and all at home.

meme, sorry to read you might have GD. While I don't want to get into the realm of giving personalised medical advice over the internet, this is totally my bag. This is my job! If there is anything I can help with or anywhere I can point you, please just ask. If you don't want me to ever mention it again, that's fine too.

You need to be referred to a diabetes team who will likely see you in a joint clinic with obstetrics. You need to be seen urgently , but that doesn't necessarily mean they will need to do anything. First thing is to check your blood sugars 1 hour after eating. That will allow your team to decide whether you can stay on dietary modification, go on metformin, or go on insulin.

Most women with GD do go on to have otherwise uncomplicated pregnancies. You don't automatically need to have a CS just for GD, although there is a higher risk because of bigger babies, and, of course, there might be other reasons from previous pregnancies (I can't remember your previous history off the top of my head.)

www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Introduction-to-diabetes/What_is_diabetes/Gestational_diabetes/

www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/CG063Guidance.pdf There's the NICE guidelines. New research has come out since so some of that will be superseded but it will (if you want to look, it's not compulsory! ) show you what is likely to happen.

dream, I completely agree with biscuits. We are all on Team Dreamfeeder's Twins now! I was trying to explain to my husband after the scan that I'd need to come home to tell Mumsnet, even though I don't know anyone's real names or real lives, but how I really felt we were, in a weird way albeit, friends rooting for one another!

Right, must get to bed now! Sleep well everyone!

I don't mind answering questions about cost - that's always the first thing I want to know when someone mentions anything I'm interested in! This mw service is £4,000 all-in. I think this is a pretty standard price for London. It covers:

• All of your antenatal care/appts apart from scans/blood tests which remain on the nhs (the indep mw comes to your house and does the standard urine/blood pressure monitor appts). During this time they hugely educate you about the whole pregnancy/birth/postnatal process, and talk it all through with you, so that you can come to informed opinions about what you think you'd like in different scenarios. It also means you really get to know and trust them, plus they get to really understand your priorities and goals.

• They are on call throughout the period of your booking, this mw gave an example of waking up at 3 in the morning with a sharp pain in your side. She said rather than lying awake all night and panicking, I should just call her immediately, and hopefully in just a couple of minutes she can either reassure me, or identify that there might be a problem and therefore come over to check. It's 24 hour support. (Obviously I don't want her to hate me so I won't be calling at crazy hours if it's not an emergency!)

• They are with you throughout the whole birth from start to finish. You call them when you get the first contraction and they talk you through it until you decide you want them to come round (which might be the second contraction!). They bring their gas and air with them too . They then monitor you and the baby at home to make sure everything's progressing normally, and they can examine you to see when you've entered established labour. They then go with you to the hospital (for a hospital birth) and you are very unlikely to get sent home by the hospital mws because you've got a trained professional with you who can tell them exactly how your labour is progressing and how diliated you are! They stay with you in the hospital, although they can't officially monitor you they will still be able to make sure things are progressing normally and call in one of the busy hospital mws if anything concerning comes up. They can even accompany you into a csection if that's how it ends up and you want them to continue supporting you!

• After the birth they do all your postnatal care at home. They visit everyday for the first week and once or twice a week for the next six weeks. They help with breastfeeding, and new baby stuff like bathing, etc. This mw says she really feels that the postnatal period is actually the most critical period, which is often overlooked. She talked at length about the importance of making time to rest/bond with your baby, rather than entertaining distant cousins! She views her role as not only making sure I'm recovering physically, but also helping us to prioritise and reorganise our lives to make sure we get a chance to really experience the first few precious days with our baby!

Sorry if I'm talking way too much again, and extra apologies to all those not interested in indep mws! I think I'm on information overload at the moment!

Okay that was a completely inappropriately long response to a very simple question! I'm really sorry everyone, I've just got all this info floating around in my head at the mo, and I seems like I'm incapable of sharing a sensible measured amount!

I'm soooooooooooooo thrilled to hear about Barlet's scan! Yay for the flickering heartbeat!

"it"

not "I"

d'oh!