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Connect with mums-to-be with similar due dates to share experiences and support.

December 2011 - Support tights time!

999 replies

BeeMyBaby · 07/09/2011 18:00

Had no idea what to call it, sorry. Just googled third trimester and that was the recommendation...

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Xiaoxiong · 28/09/2011 10:47

Well, here's my news for today...still a big surprise, so much to think about!

Other news is that my lovely DH has organised a weekend spa break for us in Bristol this weekend - I cannot wait, the spa is the Bristol Lido and has a heated outdoor pool and I'm having a pregnancy massage. Bristol's supposed to be a nice town so I'm looking forward to exploring the Sunday markets especially. Anyone live in Bristol and have recommendations? (DH has booked this restaurant for Saturday night on the basis of internet reviews but we can go elsewhere if someone knows of somewhere fab!)

With regards to the academic/potential/expectations thing, DH and I were discussing this the other night in the bath - we both are very, very nerdy and geeky and I know it has been difficult for his youngest sibling (11 year age difference) as he is much more socially popular but not so academic and feels compared to DH at every turn. I would feel horrible if our children felt like failures because they hadn't gone to the universities DH and I went to, for example. I also see the definite potential for me and DH to be the hothousing academic pushy parents because that's how we've got where we are - we need to recognise our child will not necessarily be like us...but as we were both nerdy unpopular swots at school I literally have no idea what life will be like if we somehow wind up with a popular child who isn't interested in reading, music and schoolwork!! I would just want them to be happy and able to support themselves in life...but unfortunately this means having the wherewithal to earn a decent salary...

plu - interesting thoughts. I have a friend who is currently seriously considering ditching his career, buying some land and trying to "live the good life" for exactly these sorts of reasons (he will never get a mortgage in his line of work). Also I am currently discussing with our landlord whether we can install both solar panels and insulation in our flat - I have to do all the research though Smile

sevensevenseven · 28/09/2011 11:38

tyelperion that's awful about your birth centre.

I think tbh ambition and determination are more important than how clever someone is. I was in the top sets for all subjects at school, but lacked the ambition to do anything with my brains, I was an admin on 12k a year before I became a sahm. However I have a friend who was only average at school but determined, she now saves lives as a paramedic.

Also i don't think success can only be measured by career. I may not have a high flying career or five figure salary but I'm proud that at 25 I've been married for nearly 5 years and we have a mortgage, when most of the people I went to school with have yet to settle down and unable to get on the property ladder.

OiMissus · 28/09/2011 11:39

The feedback you've had on your thread seems to say "Go for the homebirth". I think that even if you do need to transfer to a hospital, it would be very rare for it to be such an emergency that you can't walk. If the labour isn't progressing as it should, you will have plenty of time.
(I am a fellow first timer, so I'm only going off what I've read/been told/... - no personal experience).
Have you had chance to visit any other options near you? - Does your nearest hospital have a birthing suite, for example, which is less hands on?
Mine has a birthing suite as well as the delivery suite, and both "suites" are made up of private rooms, and each has one room with a birthing pool.
I'm told that they've never had to turn anyone away - that one of the pool rooms has always been available. But I'm considering hiring a pool, just in case, and then refusing to budge!

OiMissus · 28/09/2011 11:47

seven - I agree completely with what you say about determination and drive. And ultimately life is what we make it - our aim should be to be happy and content. If we have that, nothing else really matters. :)

hawthers · 28/09/2011 12:09

right i've taken the plunge and ordered the hypnotherapy cd and they even do one for VBACs so i've ordered that. hmm now just need to get DH on board - anyone have any tips for getting reluctant non tree hugger corp lawyer to engage with this?

might have my work cut out

Xiaoxiong · 28/09/2011 12:36

seven I agree that ambition and determination is key. How should DH and I instil that into our kids without becoming pushy harridans or arrogant shits though... it's a tough one! I can't honestly say "work hard and you'll be rewarded" as every day at work I see people (often but not always women) quietly beavering away as hard or harder as someone else, but the other person (usually but not always a man) not only works hard but demands recognition for their work and as a result is valued more highly. "Work hard, demand recognition and be rewarded"? Confused

Oi I'm going to go for the homebirth I think. The nearest hospital does have a birth centre but I have heard almost universally poor feedback from other people who've gone there (heard over and over that women were left on their own for hours during labour, MWs completely overstretched and stressed) and the hospital as a whole has a very bad MRSA/C. diff track record. I don't want to go near it except in a total emergency when it really is the only option.

hawthers - I'd say get the book too and read it, or better yet take a course - there is more to it than just listening to the CD though that is also key. My DH was a bit Hmm until the science behind it was explained, which he found compelling (he still thinks it should be retitled "relaxation techniques" rather than hypnobirthing which he thinks sounds dumb). The causation links between pain, fear and tension should be obvious to your DH (as it was to me, a fellow corporate lawyer Grin).

Tell him to think about how he feels when a deal is about to collapse or the other side kicks off about something - adrenaline causes blood to flow to extremities to prepare for fight or flight, heart starts pounding, blood pressure goes up, breathing quickens to increase oxygen to muscles, jaw clenches, shoulders tense.

But what do we want for birth - all muscles relaxing, cervix opening, blood flowing to baby/uterus/placenta to keep oxygen going to baby, slow heartbeat to keep blood pressure of mother and baby at a safe rate, slow breaths to prevent hyperventilation.

What do all other mammals do when they give birth - they find somewhere safe, warm, dark, calm and then they produce oxytocin which kicks labour off (when you are induced they basically pump you full of synthetic oxytocin). Apparently with first time mums you are most likely to start labour in the middle of the night in your own bed with your partner next to you after having had sex or copious cuddles - as that's when your oxytocin levels are highest and you feel safest.

And oxytocin and adrenaline are in a feedback cycle - when the level of one gets high, the other gets low. Makes sense right - if you're in a dangerous situation, you want labour to stop so you can get away: adrenaline up, oxytocin down, labour stops. Then when you're somewhere safe away from the danger, adrenaline down, oxytocin up, labour starts up again.

So you need to teach yourself how to relax yourself and keep your adrenaline levels down and oxytocin levels up, even when things hurt and you're afraid. Can you do it yourself? No - your DH is the ONLY person who can help you, because you're going to be too out of it to remember what to do, he has to keep calm and collected, he's the one you trust the most to be there with you, and you need to practice beforehand like you're preparing for a marathon. He is as essential a part of this whole thing as you are, and you need him to be fully engaged to make it work. (Obv you can have someone else help you if necessary but don't tell your DH that - also it's hard to get enough practice if you're doing it with someone you don't live with day to day).

My DH has said the thing he likes best about the whole process is how he feels with practice he will be able to calm me down and help me relax - he wants to be as needed and fully present at birth as he was at conception Grin He also said it's something practical that we can do together to prepare, rather than just taking our chances on the day.

Xiaoxiong · 28/09/2011 12:40

God, listen to me, I haven't even given birth once and I sound like some kind of evangelist for hypnobirthing Hmm

Seriously it's worth it just for the 20 minutes of light touch massage every night while you listen to the affirmations or the relaxation scripts Grin

aethelfleda · 28/09/2011 12:51

If a home birth is what you want, make your wishes clear to the midwife team and see what they say: they are very good at encouraging low risk ladies while gently steering you towards transfer if there are any issues.

Personally I'm not a homebirth devotee but that's simply because I have experience of completely unexpected very poorly baby (not mine, a friends') who seemed fine through the labour but came out very unwell(cord round neck) and needed intensive care straight away. The risks of this are low but for me personally I'd rather give birth in a place with prompt access to a resuscitation team, even with two healthy deliverys behind me. I had both my DDs in a midwife-led unit within a hospital, knowing if there was unexpected drama there would be backup straight away. (due to the possible low placenta thing I'd be declined a homebirth this time even if I had wanted one). I had another friend with a lovely second homebirth who lived deep in the highlands- she just didn't want hospital input and was happy to accept the small risk. Her first was planned as a homebirth but the midwives asked her to transfer and she had baby in the ambulance!

ThePippy · 28/09/2011 12:54

Tyelperion I heard about Ascot as I live in Maidenhead and plan to deliver in ISIS @ Wexham like I did with DD. I assume it is Wexham you are referring to in your post about the alternatives and if so I would add that from my experience the birth centre there tends to be quiet most of the time ( I was only one of 2 in there when I delivered DD ) and while they do leave you alone in labour this is more to do with the thinking behind their approach than lack of care. In fact this is one of the main reasons I prefer birth centres as I like peace & quiet and personal space and wouldn't cope anywhere near as well with the pain if I had people fussing and interrupting my mental focus in labour. I found the birth centre relaxing and a nice place to be, which was totally ruined by the fact I ended up in the labour ward and main post natal ward due to a retained placenta which needed operating on under spinal, and it was so late in the day that I couldn't go back up to the birth centre afterwards.

Also if it helps you feel less upset about Ascot closing its doors, a friend of mine laboured there and had a really bad experience with stroppy midwives who didn't listen and even though she was clearly not progressing let her suffer for almost 48 hours in the end before she was transferred to Wexham for emergency c-section. So I think a lot depends on the situation on the day to be honest.

I think a home birth is a great idea but I wasn't quite brave enough and don't think DH would have been easily persuaded. Good luck whatever you decide to do though.

P.S. totally get you on the high expectations for children. DH and I are both very well educated (nerdy & geeky too) and in very good professional jobs and I just can't imagine how I would deal with a child who struggles academically, and not because I think there is anything wrong with not being academic, just because it is so far from what makes me and my DH tick. So far DD is showing very good signs though so I'm not panicking just yet.

figgygal · 28/09/2011 13:28

tyelperion I will PM you as I live in bristol

Xiaoxiong · 28/09/2011 13:39

ThePippy you're absolutely right - we live in Eton so I'm only 3 miles from Wexham in an emergency. But yes, it is Wexham we have heard the horror stories about - even my GP advised against it!! (Interesting to hear about Heatherwood not being universally beloved though...)

It's not so much leaving you be when you're in labour - totally understand and agree with their thinking behind that - as spending hours unsuccessfully searching for a MW when one was needed. Two guys DH works with both had the experience at Wexham in the last 6 months of wandering the corridors desperately (one of them waited 3 hours apparently), trying to convince a MW to come. When I see in the BBC story that Wexham has the highest vacancy levels in the country for midwives, it starts to make a bit more sense. And their stories about the post-natal wards are grim as grim can be, again because of understaffing.

Anyway Wexham will still be the our only option for induction, epidural or c-section anyway, no different from when Heatherwood was still open - so I guess I might as well plan stay at home and get the full attention of a midwife, as we are so close to the hospital if there is an emergency. And if I change my mind, I think I've heard we can still head into ISIS if there's space.

Xiaoxiong · 28/09/2011 13:41

aethel I will definitely talk this over with the MW team before making any firm decisions - I don't think I would be brave enough to consider it if we were deep in the highlands rather than 3 miles from a large busy hospital!!

hawthers · 28/09/2011 13:53

tyelperion thanks for all your good convincing words. definitely all makes utter sense to me and sure it will to DH as well. have ordered the book and the cd for £11 so will see how it goes and if we like it we'll have a look at a course in our area.

ThePippy · 28/09/2011 14:37

Tyelperion I think we are unfortunate to live in one of the worst PCT's in the country when it comes to giving birth. I totally agree on the general view of Wexham, and had a generally awful experience post natally on the main ward (which a friend described as being like Tenko - womens prisoner of war camp for all those too young to have seen the TV series) and was so pleased to leave and go home. I am praying for a normal delivery again so I can use the birth centre as the thought of being in the main labour/post natal wards fills me with dred.

plupervert · 28/09/2011 15:25

Hi, all.

I can't comment at all on homebirth, as I never particularly considered it, being in a rented first floor flat at the time. I did buy the hypnobirth CD from the NCT, but it turned me off the first time I listened to it because the images being blathered on about (and the tone of voice was very blathery and breathy) were not mine at all. I was diligently imagining a shore, the wind, waves, etc., and then the silly voiceover cow cut in with some platitude about palm trees and warmth, which was not at all what I had been imagining. I had been imagining a forested lakeshore in Canada, so f-off her "tropical paradise"! I once spent a few years in a warm climate, and it was so not me that I was very happy to abandon it for temperate Blighty! It makes me a bit sad, listening to all your positive experiences of actually being calmed. I'm jealous! Smile What specific CDs are you all listening to?

It's interesting, though, hearing so many of you considering identifying with your children through "school" or "cleverness" or however it comes out in the child. I think this is what we feel, too. At least, though, DH and I are on either side of the literacy/numeracy divide, so we have some experience of being rubbish at something, as well as of being good at something. I have a bigger fear that our children will want to be "normal" - shunning their extended family's Johnny-Foreigner and expat mix-ups which call themselves background.

Xiaoxiong · 28/09/2011 15:29

Ugh I'm finding that out now pippy, the irony is that until today I thought we were in one of the best, as my GP gave birth to all hers at Heatherwood, all the midwives I've met have been fab (and 2 of them gave birth at Heatherwood as well) and we just completed a free £300 hypnobirthing course courtesy of the NHS! Such a complete turnaround in just a few hours...

I have to say your comments are definitely filling me with determination to make a home birth work for us. I think the fear of being in a ward that has been described as being like a Japanese prisoner of war camp would mean that any natural labouring instinct would be totally inhibited, even if I was in the birth centre rather than the main wards!!

plupervert · 28/09/2011 15:34

Oh, sorry, I forgot about the working-hard business! I've been developing a theory that we should shun established private schools, and encourage our children to socialise with second-generation immigrant children, as their work ethic seems to be the strongest and most likely to rub off! DH's Indian friends take such an interest in their children's discipline that there will be absolutely no peer-pressure amongst their lot, for mine to bunk off! What do you all think?! Wink

Flippantly speaking, who wants their child to burn out trying to keep up with a Pippa Middleton, especially without the money to finance the way of life?

Xiaoxiong · 28/09/2011 15:34

plu we aren't actually listening to the CD at the moment - DH is reading them to me from the book and worksheets in a lovely deep calm voice. We're listening to our own music too (last night it was some ).

I told him what place I was visualising (my family's summer cottage) so it's been great, he's been freestyling a little bit, saying things like "imagine you are standing under the pines...the smell of the wood fire in the hearth...you're swinging in the hammock on the porch..."

Xiaoxiong · 28/09/2011 15:43

x-posted plu - I agree a work ethic is v important. However you'll find a lot of that in private schools too you know...the established private school where we live is chock full of second-generation immigrant kids, and 40% of the students are on full or partial financial assistance - they have a serious work ethic too, immigrant or not Smile

With all the dorky academic types on this thread, I say that we all need to read this book and then after we all give birth we get together and do some baby Mensa classes. Who's with me!!?

jigglebum · 28/09/2011 15:44

Impressed with the philosophising on here today. I think DH and I would also struggle somewhat if our child were not bright (ish) as we are both quite academic (DH with the maths and science and me more on the English,humanities so we are quite well covered) but I think social and emotional intelligence are just (if not more) important. I think social confident (not arrogance) and people skills are key, and motivation too.

DH and I both worked hard at school and went to the same top ranked uni. But DH was motivated by the idea that to be the best meant to be the most successful (ie rich) whereas I was more motivated by doing well and pleasing my teachers for the sake of it! As a result DH is always somewhat pissed off with he his relative lack of achievement in life (ie he does not earn 100K have a yacht, big house and latest car as he thought he would!!), whereas I am pretty happy with my career and lot in life. We lack the ambition and drive to do better and are very keen on work/life balance.

I am not sure we would cope very well with a child with SN though, so fingers crossed everything is fine this time too.

Sorry to hear about the closure of the birthing unit and that some of you live in poor PCTs for maternity issues. I am luck in that I live 5 mins from our hospital , which has a very good reputation.

Knackered again today as up again last night with a coughing DS. Think it may be a chest infection so taking him to the doctor later. think I may be catching the cold part of it though - which is not good. Has anyone had the combined flu jab yet? Are people generally having it?

We have finally chosen our builders and have a start date for a a few weeks time. Meant to be finished mid December! Mmm - good timing heh!

Must stop waffling on and do some housework!

Xiaoxiong · 28/09/2011 15:51

Ok now I'm really really curious where you all went to uni and what you studied and what you all do now, since everyone here sounds academic and geeky like me...would you all tell if I told? Always afeared of the evil stealth boast Blush

KateM77 · 28/09/2011 16:02

I'd tell if you told Tyelperion I've just been reading through today's posts trying to keep up. DH and I are both equally geeky and I'm not sure how we'd cope if a DC wasn't academically inclined if I'm perfectly honest. DD is only 17 months now but so far seems incredibly bright, loves to play with books and puzzles rather than toys, and is doing brilliantly with her language skills too. It makes me very proud (and relieved) Blush

jigglebum · 28/09/2011 16:05

I thought that too tyelperion - just as I am always curious about where people live and what job they do but understand that people might like to be more anonymous! We do sound like a pretty academic lot though from this afternoon's posts anyway! I am always a bit reluctant to reveal where I went to uni as people than expect me to be super bright and clever and not to make spelling and grammar mistakes in my posts!! Anyway I went to the posh old university over in East Anglia. however, once I got there I did realise that I was relatively thick compared with most, did too much drinking and socialising and did not get a great degree!! However I did have a fab 3 years!!!

hawthers · 28/09/2011 16:14

2p worth coming in - DH and I both fairly academically sorted and both professionals (despite DH hitting his stride in A levels and not before). DS was premature and spent 4 months in hosp so developmentally behind to some extent.

seems to be socially unacceptable to say that we are concerned he won't catch up or will have difficulties later. its not about us being upset we won't have a nuclear physicist as a son, we just mean that we don't want him to have to struggle. he is however a total legend. not too sure what people mean how would they cope if their child wasn't academically inclined?

plus when talking about our bros and sis - one who has a first is doing well but totally eclipsed success wise by bro who left school with woodwork o level..... he has basically retired before he is 40 and spends his time doing what he likes (not extravagant yachts etc but between him, his wife and their 3 girls they have 7 horses and he shoots/fishes whenever he likes (country types!) - works maybe one day a week!). sounds good to me.

plupervert · 28/09/2011 16:20

Tyelperion, I know just what you mean about the sort of people who do go to private schools. I ought to have specified that I meant private-schools-for-snob-value and rubbing-shoulders-with-poshoes/minor-royalty, since some people do think that the success will rub off on their kids if they meet the rich/posh at school. Thinking about my ex-boyfriend, who came out of a boarding school with a tree-related name, where he was in with children of the properly famous (son of one of the Three Tenors, I think), I was turned right off that kind of grooming, since he ended up unable to live within his means, and being rather a snob (his family certainly were snobs - my God). I ended up being uncomfortable that I had somehow (flukily) qualified to be approved of by him and his family. Not that I think I'm a cultureless twat and hideous to boot, but any culture and looks I have (and they're low-flight Wink), I haven't cultivated them in order to social-climb!

Anyway, as I mention, my achievements are low-flight despite a middle-class upbringing, so maybe DS and DD would be better at providing for themselves as plumbers! I'd certainly like to be able to build a car or wire up a hot-water pump. It would certainly be cool to build one's own house!

We'd have to go onto Off The Beaten Track for any Big Reveals, though! Although I doubt people snoop in the Ante-Natal Clubs section of MN (I wouldn't know how to find someone here), it is indexable by Google and others, so someone searching for their dream-list (or shit-list) of acadaemia might find us by a fluke.

P.S. I loved the Perfect Baby handbook! Does finding it funny mean I'm not a total neurotic, as my recent posts have indicated? Blush

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