January 2012: Thread 2

[supadupapupascupa]

As you were

All the best for today addictediam
My sickness has pretty much gone I'm pleased to say .
I had my consultant appointment and he has recommend a elcs which should be around 3rd Jan feeling real now !

I hope everything goes well addicted

Congratulations on those first flutters mumtobe how exciting!

Welcome ChocaMum!

good luck addicted and welcome to ChocaMum

oeisha you MUST stop being sick AT ONCE I want to give all you sicky ladies inspiration and say that mine is really seeming like it's tailing off (at 14+5wks), so hopefully everyone elses will be too soon. I haven't been sick since the last time i said i was sick! er...when was that? can't remember. Which is a good sign!! Anyway it's definitely every few days now instead of 4x a day....

even managed some chicken yesterday when 3 weeks ago the very mention of the word made me puke!

as for nhs/nct stuff.... i am going to try the nhs ones first then see - but I think what choca says is right; they're really good for meeting other mums in your area and making friends with babies. Which I think is quite cool.

as for 'pushing' natural birth and making you feel guilty...well TBH I have quite strong feelings about this myself, and I have to try and stop being evangelistic and ranty about it (especially since I haven't done it yet, and it might be a total disaster...)
BUT.... I would guess that the reason one might feel people are being pushy is because they themselves also feel REALLY strongly that it is a good thing to do. I've read so much now about intervention/drug use/epidurals/cs etc etc that I don't want to touch any of it with a bargepole (if i don't have to). I think Natural Birth pushers really believe in it and want to help others find the knowledge to help them make an educated decision. I guess if it makes you feel guilty then you need to work out why or come up with your own strong arguments that alleviate your guilt. I don't really see why anyone should feel guilty for not going down NB route, BUT I do really think that it is a super good idea to forearm yourself with as much knowledge about birth as possible. I don't think it has to be a horredous scary horrible thing. I think some people manage to have lovely births...

sorry for the rant - I am entirely pro-choice and non-judgemental, but am just sad about all my friends who are pregnant choosing to go into hospital straight away and have all the drugs and gubbins plastered all over them (which is FINE if they want that) but without reading up on it or finding out EXACTLY what they're doing first.

I think knowledge is REALLY IMPORTANT.

End of message

hi all, i am back and VERY pleased to report that the baby is fine still measuring smaller than he should be but catching up for the 3 weeks of non-growth.

tey have given me a new edd, which may change again but its 3/2/11 - do i need to leave this thread?

you first time mums to be will think i'm a terible parent but you mums already should understand. i've just spent an hour on the phone to interflora and then nhs direct because after leaving the room for literally 1 minute my dd decided to eat a lilly!!! grrr nightmare child i now have to watch out for allergic reactions, her not responding to me and mild hallusionations. please tell me how you are ment to know if a 9mo who's not yet talking and quite enjoys staring into space and crying for no reason is having an hallusionation!? lol

i agree in principle with what you are saying redhead BUT when you are faced with people telling you you are a bad mum for not having or choosing to have a natural birth i think the automatic feeling is guilt.
i couldnt bf dd, she was tounge tied then turned out to be allergic anyway and there were also many other reasons i'm not going to go in to but the amount of people that put me down for it was unbeliveable.
i am not ashamed or embarrised of my decision and if needs be i will make it again; but for thoes first 3 or 4 weeks i felt like i was the worst person in the world. there were people that called me evil and selfish and said she should be taken away, and yes many of my reasons probably were selfish. however i have always said and will always say that a happy mummy is the most important thing and if a drug filled birth or ff is going to make you happy then that is the decision you should be making.

(hmm, now you'll be kicking me off this thread for sure!)

oh addicted I'm so happy your scan was good

and I agree with you totally about being a happy mummy being the most important thing, of course it is, and the people that cussed you for not bf or whatever are just big fat turds.

I'm just really pro being ACTIVE in your choices and not PASSIVE - and just from my experience of my friends, a lot of them have no idea WHY they're going to hospital and having an epidural/cs, they just ARE because they think that's the norm. Same re lying on your back to labour instead of moving around. Just because people have done it for 50 yrs doesn't mean it's the right thing for YOU.

I just wish some women spent as much time researching their birth as they do their wedding plans or whatever. it feels really important to me at the moment

argh i typed out a message and mn ate it

what i said was

i agree, you should research your decisions, be positive and stand up for them.

the problem is many people are engaged for longer than they are pregnant! also there are lots of places to go for free or paid wedding advice where as with pregnancy unless you have the money to pay for a dula, private midwifes and hospitals, nct courses etc you really have to rely on the NHS's 'agenda' and the more you research your choices and drugs ect you will start to see at the end of the day its all about money.

Sorry for being ignorant but what is a dula?

I really don't think it is all about the money tbh - we are only having a doula (which is a lady who is like a support person for your birth) because we've saved up for it - in the same way we saved up for our wedding. And this costs a lot less than a wedding, and seems to me more important. All the research I've done I've done myself using the internet, free documentary channels, and a couple of books from amazon. The doula hasn't helped me at all yet. She's more for the later bit once I've already gained a lot of knowledge - because I didn't even think about having a doula until I'd done some research...

I haven't experienced any NHS agenda yet so I can't really comment on that. I'll go to some classes and report back...

On the subject of doulas - I am having one to help us with our home birth because we've never done it before and I don't have a mum/sister/friend who would be any good at helping out. Me and my husband thought it would be a great idea to spend a couple of hundred quid on a valuable support person than some other baby stuff which we think might be less important. I could be totally wrong and regret all this in 6mnths time!

(don't worry the baby won't be sleeping in a cardboard box just to fund a doula!)

but having said that, it might mean that we can only afford NHS classes, and not NCT, so I guess we're hoping that the NHS classes are ok....

mn just ate another of my responces i'm actually going to give up!

whats wrong with a cardbord box? my baby wll be sleeping in one just so i can buy his pushchair

in my expiearience the nhs is all about the money when i was pregnant with my dd (shes my 4th pregnancy btw but my first baby, if anyone was wondering why i dont say with my 1st, its not because i like saying 'my dd'! ) the dr's and mw's suggested i take pethidine, i wanted an epi but they suggested pethidine may be 'just as good' they all knew my medical history and also that i was allergic to certain drugs like gas and air. so i went away and researched it and found out that there is a link between pethidine and post natal depression if there is a history of depression in yourself (which there is)

when i asked the mw about this she said that having an epi would mean i would need 1 mw in my labour room at all times, it would also mean that 1 anisitist, 1 dr and a few other people would have to be 'taken away from more important tasks' to administer it to me. she went on to say if i did have pnd that a dr cound 'just give you anti depressants' and 'you'd be right as rain again in no time'

i also researched other drugs that i wasnt allergic to and were much more expensive and not routinely given for birth. the comunity mw told me a flat 'no, although when i went into labour and the anisitist came and spoke to me about pain relief, at the request of the hospital mw (thats a whole other story!) she did suggest some of the options i had researched

to me, this was all about costs. but maybe its diffrent around some other parts of the uk?

Addicted - I'm so happy to hear the great news, the little one is doing well by the sounds of it. But you poor thing with DD eating a lilly, that's the last thing you need right now! Good luck to the both of you.

I think for the ones who are to be new mums it is impossible to explain the amount of guilt you feel every single day and minute when trying to be a 'good mum.' it really is hard to explain that once you have held your amazing baby in your arm, the unconditional love you feel makes you also feel very inadequate in every way to fulfil their needs. So the last thing you need is anybody trying to add to that guilt. And like addicted said, a happy mum is the only way you will have a happy baby.

I am also very pro natural birth and bf, but I am completely against mums being made to feel their decisions are wrong, nobody else knows what's best for their baby other than their mum. So information is great, options are even better, but guilt trips are absolutely out of order IMO. I feel I was lucky in being able to have a natural birth and only using gas and air for the last hour, and being able to bf. Nobody knows how they will react to the pain, and how their bodies will react to childbirth and bf. I really struggled with bf for the first 2 months and it was horrible, but my DD had bad eczema so I persisted through the tears and pain.

I also did an amazing birth workshop done by a yoga instructor who helped me and my birthing partners learn lots of relaxation tools to use during labour. But the main reason I liked her workshop was that although she is clearly pro natural birth and bf, she made it clear from the outset that you just cannot predict what will happen and what you will need during labour and after birth, these techniques will help you but their may come a point in the labour that you will need more, and she discussed all pain relief options and ff too.

I think maternity care varies so so much. I had really good antenatal classes and the MW who did them was very pro home births. But again she said be realistic, don't build yourself up for this perfect idea of birth and then have to deal with the disappointment and guilt when it didn't live up to your expectations. The hormonal roller coaster you go through after childbirth is just horrendous, so there is no need to make it any worse.

Addicted - Pethididne has been banned in our local maternity units because it's a nasty drug and not a great painkiller, so I'm surprised about your epcerience. Also I find it awful hearing what people said to you when you stated to ff your DD, how dare they???

Sorry once again for the really long post! But it's lovely to have good news from addicted, despite dd's lilly incident! :)

I forgot to add that the anaesthetists will normally happily see pregnant woman in outpatients to discuss options of pain releief with them. They are the experts in pain relief, so will honestly tell you what is safe during labour and what works.

Addicted - because it's your second labour you'll probably still be a January mum and baby anyway! So we'll ignore the new EDD for now.

addictediam, so glad to hear all is well!
Redheadbedhead - sure you won't get flamed, I think only threads get nasty because people are looking for a fight, but this is a nice antenatal thread and we all just want support
My ten-pence worth as a first-time mum...I can see why people are passionate about natural births, and that is what I would like in an ideal world, but I am very susceptible to guilt and feelings of being inadequate and I can't really get my head around paying a lot of money for a course where people are going to evangelise about something rather than presenting all of the options objectively. (and I accept that may not happen)
I agree totally with you that being informed is very important, but not being 'persuaded'. It's difficult because I think the NCT does commendable work, but I also think that the NHS does its best under very constrained circumstances and although it's good that the NCT is showing the alternatives, it's hard for the average woman in labour to take up those political battles and fight the doctors decisions at a time when she is very vulnerable.
The other thing I do think, is that actually nature can sometimes be a bitch. When the NCT says, every woman's body knows how to give birth- actually I think that most women's bodies know how to give birth, but some of us do need help. Modern medicine has saved countless mothers and babies. If it weren't for CSs, neither I nor my mother nor my sisters nor my beautiful niece would be here now. Being 'too posh to push' never came into it.
So although I'd like a natural birth, my philosophy is hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

Interesting.... I of course have no experience yet of NCT or NHS classes but assumed they all covered the same sort of thing. Is what you're telling me that NCT pushes 'natural' and the NHS doesn't??

So what exactly does the NHS push?

Sorry if I have come over wrong, obviously I understand that NHS advocate natural birthing too, but it does offer medical interventions and drugs, and I was of the impression that many members of the NCT feel that the NHS birth experience is overmedicalised- isn't that what the NCT was formed for?
what i was trying to say is in the labour room you may be offered an intervention and you make decide to take the medical advice and there is no shame in doing that.
I have read threads on mumsnet and spoken to people and they've come out of NCT feeling inadequate because they have not had a natural birth or breastfed . I asked a midwife and she also told me to approach with caution. If anyone has had a positive experience I'd be keen to hear it as I have not ruled NCT out, and as say I would like and hope for a natural birth and have even considered hynobirthing, and I'd really like a class that DH can attend.

addicted stick with us...we'll miss you! Congrats on the good news! :D

Re: nct vs nhs, my SILs both did nct and found the advice and 'birth' stuff was very similar, but they have made really good friends with the other families (especially the dads), so although I think they may be acting unprofessionally re:information delivery, I may still sign up. Though, I am going to have to travel for 1/2h 40mins each way, so how close we'll be I don't know.

Not been sick so far today (though did almost throw up in a meeting) I do have a thumping headache despite paracetamol and I'm so bloody tired it's unreal...already had a nap...going to bed once I've eaten this nectarine...

Re: birthing and interventions. Frankly, whatever gets me through it. I'm not ruling out drugs etc, but like others I'd like to be as natural as possible. I'm going to have an idea of a plan, but am basically going to let my DH tell me if I'm becoming irrational/hysterical (that is if he's not passed out on the floor).

I think the main thing is you just want to know all your options well before you go into labour, because you are in no state to be trying to take on board new info at that time. Simple things like in our nhs antenatal class they let us try gas and air so we knew it would make us light headed rather than freak out at the time. And also if you did need an emergency caesarean how many people would be in the room - about 10. The less surprises the better. I agree with the idea of be prepared for the worst but hope for the best. If you haven't even considered the worst then you could end up feeling really awful at a time that is so special.

I agree that the makingbfriends part is probably the main reason to do nct classes, and this is a huge plus side.

Feeling lots of fluttering today, very exciting. But puking loads this week, one of the worst weeks :( On two different anti-sickness tablets and even then I've been puking blood all week :( At least the fluttering is making me feel much happier. And my DD trying to sing to me! (she's 17 mo so her language isn't exactly adult yet!) :)

hooray for fluttering
boo hiss for puking

i think you are totally right - knowing options in advance and preparing for all eventualities.

I fully admit I am a total newbie at this lark and have no concept of what either of the classes are going to be like!! When are you all going to them? I guess i should probably sign up for something!

choca that is so cute (dd singing!)

adn i'm glad you want me to stay oeisha!

today i'm off to see the bloos sucking vampire that is the nurse to hopefully make me better (i have too many health issues!!)

hope everyone else is feeling better today and fingers crossed for a puke free day for everyone

Hi everyone! Congratulations on all the happy scan news! Sorry I've not been on for a while, been absolutely exhasted! I can't wait for this 'energy boost' that apparantly comes with the 3rd trimester...I'm like a zombie atm.
Still no movements for me yet - only 14weeks gone though so not too suprising, I didn't feel DS move until quite late. Keep on lying on my back willing my body to feel something

Have taken the sides off ds's cotbed to get him settled in that before the baby comes and turns everything into chaos again He was brilliant and we've not had any issues even without a bed guard. Really wish he was ready for potty training so I could get that out of the way too, hopefully he will be before dc2 arrives - don't fancy the fun of potty training with a newborn

It's just hit me that I won't be able to drink over Christmas and will be the size of a mini bus! [sob]

I've somehow managed to disappear off the stats so shall bung myself back on there

Fifitrixabelle - EDD 01/01/12
Shonnomanom - DC2 EDD 01/01/12. 20wk Scan 16Aug
summerfruitsalad - DC2 EDD 01/01/12
Broodyandnewtothis ? EDD 01/01/12
Mum2be79 - EDD 01/01/12 20wk scan 12th August
Sleepywombat - DC2 EDD 01/01/12
Emmyjj - EDD 01/01/12 20wk Scan 15th Aug
d0gface - EDD 02/01/12 Scan 27/6/11
Buttertart - DC2 EDD 02/01/12
GiraffeAHolic - DC2 EDD 02/01/12 Scan 24/6/11 20 week scan 19th August
Conchita -DC1 EDD 02/01/12
Knittiekitty - DC2 EDD 02/01/12
GwendolineMaryLacey - EDD 03/01/12
BonzaBlue - EDD 04/01/12
Spagbolagain - DC2 EDD 04/01/12 20wk scan 18 Aug
aurorasky - DC1 EDD 05/01/12
LaBobkin ? EDD 06/01/12 12 wk scan 27/6/11 20 week scan 30 Aug
tigana - DC2 EDD 07/01/12
Purpleteapot ? DC1 EDD 07/01/12
Deesus - EDD 07/01/2012 Scan 27/6/11
Nanny01 - DC5 EDD 08/01/12
Moobee - EDD 8/1/2012 -scan 27/6/11
milkyways - EDD 08/01/2012 20 weeks scan 20/08/2011
ChocaMum - DC2 EDD 09/01/2012 20 wk scan 19th August
Hazysun ? EDD 10/01/12
Wormshuffler- EDD 10/01/12- 20wk scan 27/8/11
Trubble - EDD 11/01/12
bustersgirl - DC6 EDD 12/01/12
fishandlilacs - DC2 EDD 12/01/12
ghosteditor - DC1 EDD 15/01/12 - 12 wk scan 05/07/11, 20 week scan 17Aug
MercyMe ? DC2 EDD 12/01/12
MabliD ? EDD 13/01/12
Bellakins ? DC1 EDD 13/01/12 BA 02/06/11
Fr00tbat- DC1 EDD 14/01/12 BA 10/06/11, nuchal 6/7/11
abeautifulbutterfly - DC3 EDD 14/01/12
Tanif - DC1 EDD 15/01/12
Weevie - DC1 EDD 15/1/12
SlightlyScrambled ? DC2 EDD 15/01/12
kdiddy - DC1 EDD 15/01/12, 20 week scan 30/08/11
Joules281 - DC2 EDD 15/01/12, 20 wk scan 24/08/11
Falabalamb ? DC3 EDD 15/1/12, 20wk scan 25/8/11
sassylassie - DC1 EDD 17/01/12 20wk scan 07/09/11 (late cos of naughty hols)
K4mi - DC1 EDD 18/01/12
blueeyedmonster - DC2 EDD 18/1/12 12 week scan 4/7/11 20wk scan 30/8/11
Curlygirl72 - DC1 EDD 19/1/12, 20wk scan 6/09/11
mummyzoe2012 ? DC1 EDD 20/1/12 1st scan 15/7/11
Capybara ? DC1 EDD 20/01/12 ? scan on 14/07/11
Supadupapupascupa - DC2 EDD 20/01/12 20wk scan 06/09/11
Joy33 - DC1 EDD 20/01/2012
kelli10 - DC1 EDD 23/01/12
Mummaroo ? DC2 EDD 23/01/12
redheadbedhead - DC1 EDD 23/01/12
Greenlady78 ? DC1 EDD 25/1/12
BigHotMama - DC2 EDD 25/1/12
Belini- DC4+5!! EDD 27/1/12 12 wk scan 25/7/11 20 wk scan 5/9/11
BunMyOven - DC2 EDD 27/01/12 ~ 20wk scan 09/09/11
scarlettsmummy2 ? DC2 EDD 28/1/12
Fryn - DC2 EDD 28/1/12
Monkeymomma - DC1 EDD 28/1/12 scan 18/7/11
ParsleyLion1 - EDD 30/1/2012 BA 13/6/11 12 wk scan 15/07/11
Lily06 ? DC1 EDD end of Jan
Xkatyx ? DC4+5! EDD
magaddict - hopeful!

Gone but not forgotten -

Hotcrosses
ShimmeryPixie
DizzyKipper
Browncoat
Tummytickler
Mama5isalive
Fubble

2nd* trimester not 3rd! One step at a time Bun!

ha ha Bun, wondered what you were talking about!! i haven't had any of this miraculous 2nd trimester energy yet either.... hope we get it soon!

I'm beginning to think this "2nd trimester energy" thing is just a myth to get us all through the 1st trimester

Bun - I'm very impressed with your ds's sleeping ability! We only took the bars off dd's bed a couple of weeks ago (she's 4yrs). We forgot to take the bars on holiday and she fell out of bed several times, 2 nights running! Luckily the bed was low and we raided the other beds for quilts so she had a soft landing. In the end she was putting herself back in and that seemed to do the trick thankfully. I'm glad the accidently brutal holiday approach worked at last!

Try not to worry about potty training, it was peer pressure when she started nursery at nearly 3 yrs that got dd using the toilet. I was getting frantic because she would hold on for 10 hours at a stretch, had 2 uti's and had to have a kidney scan to make sure her plumbing was working. She seems to have a determined (stubborn) streak and wouldn't even try the potty in our house but went straight to the toilets at nursery as though she'd been using them for ages. She mystifies us sometimes!

Congrats on the scan Addictediam and commiserations for the flower rearranging! I hope she's ok - honestly what goes on in their little brains, I constantly wonder with awe and horror lol!! My nephew would nibble worms and stroke wasps if he was left unsupervised in the back garden. I caught dd trying to sharpen her finger when she was supposed to be quietly drawing whilst I made her dinner yesterday. No damage done but when do I get the 'eyes in the back of my head' that my mum seemed to have please?