For Jonny, and all our darling departed sisters and brothers..."their diminished size is in us, not in them".

[evansmummy]

I have remarked over the last few months that there are a number of us on this forum who are living through the death of our brothers and sisters. I would even go so far as to say I never even imagined there could be so many!

I have also noticed that the thread for bereaved mummies is the most amazing place of support, a great place to go and say how you feel without being judged, and knowing that others are going through something similar. And of course a place to go and get a good old MN hug.

So I wondered if those of you who have lost siblings would like to join me in making a place where we can say how we are feeling and to be here for each other, and even to gripe and moan! If you are interested, just let us know a bit about your sibling and a bit about your grief journey if you like. I'll start!

My youngest brother Jonny died a little over five months ago as a result of head injuries sustained during a hit and run accident. My family spent a week in intensive care with him in a coma before he died of heart failure on Fri 30th May 2008. Horrible, just horrible.

I feel down most of the time. But will admit to the strangest mood swings, from very depressed to almost hyper-excited. I still drink and smoke a lot, but less than right at the beginning. Suffice to say that things are not getting easier or better. Maybe even the opposite. I'm dreading Christmas, Jonny's birthday, and then the inquest and court case. I hate it all so much and wish often that it would just all go away. I still can't believe I'm writing this tuff about my own brother.

It's hard to quickly put into a short paragraph the pain and turmoil of the last five months. But I'm sure if this thread works out we'll have plenty of time to go into more detail.

Over to you...

Love Me xx

Hope everything went ok at work EM - probably a mixed day for you, but as you say - time now to feel what you need to feel for a while. I remember when I cut down my work hours to one day a week, I felt initially really relieved and spent quite a few days when my sons were at school just wallowing - but not feeling too bad about it! But it did take a while to get used to the new routine and had to make sure I got out and kept active - as too much wallowing and comfort eating made me feel very unfit!

I like all our admissions of completely normal weirdness - the things we have kept of our DB's. Even yours MAS - not shocking at all, can completely relate to that. Winetime - his lovely loo bleach - your DB would have a giggle at that I'm sure.

It is great that we can share all this with each other - fellow 'normal weirdos'

Well, I know I've made the right decision even though yesterday was quite emotional. Normal I guess. It's another big change, and in a way, another loss. But today I feel free, like a load has been lifted and I'm glad it's over.

I started a new church house group today and it was the first time that I've had to tell people who don't know me about my brother. It was hard, and I cried a lot, but I think it's gonna be an important part of my rebuilding - meeting new people and showing this part of my life, this hole. I was also able to tell people, again for the first time, how angry I am at God, and how his promises don't mean anything to me anymore. I think people may have been a bit shocked, and I hope that they will be able to cope with me! But I felt it dishonest to pretend anything else. I found it soooo hard to hear them say 'this and this Bible verse has really meant a lot to me', when I hate those verses now! And also to hear people asking for prayer about which house to buy, or for settling into a new home - how trivial that seems to me!

Man, this is hard.

Thank you so much for your support, it's easier to say things on here than it ever would be for me in RL (except possibly with my counsellor), so I really appreciate your joining me in this thread.

cyteen, heard anything from CRUSE yet? I'm proud of you for taking that first step and really hope you find it useful. Let us know how you get on. You saying about Si's music makes me think so much about Jonny. I have some of his minidisc compilations, and I love love love listening to them and thinking that he chose those tracks for a reason. Some of them remind me so much of growing up together it hurts, but somehow in a nice way, iyswim.

pushki, up until you posted that I hadn't thought a lot that the space without work would allow me to wallow. But I guess it will a bit. My OU course starts in 2 weeks, so that'll keep me busy, but I feel I need a bit of a self-pity! Haven't been able to do it for months, and I strangely miss it! Stepping out of the grief bubble was horrible at first and now I've got used to it, so stepping back into it for anymore than 10 minutes will feel odd. I need it though, I think. Felt myself getting too busy and busy means I don't reflect as much and I definitely don't like that.

I'm going on again. Sorry

Hello everyone, how are you all? I met my other brother for lunch the other day. He dreams of our DB all the time and I want to so much. I saw my dad and mum over the next couple of days and we're all reeling around in our own turmoil, somehow unable to come close to one another. My relationship with my DH is just crap at the moment, just crap, and all I can think is that I should be grieving my brother, not crying over crap that shouldn't be.

I just can't see how life can ever be hopeful or exciting or something to wait for with anticipation ever again.

MissM - a hug for you xx - things will get better and you will find that there is hope and something to look forward too,believe that.

Miss M - sorry you're feeling so low. You will find your way through it, but it is hard. Your phrase of your family all "reeling around in your own turmoil" is so true - I felt that too early on, that I lost some closeness with my parents - just at the time when I really needed them more. They were so caught up in their grief, especially my Mum, and she would say things at time without thinking which weren't meant to hurt but did. She didn't acknowledge for a long time that my grief and feeling of loss was as huge as theirs.

Looking back I think we all needed more support and to seek out bereavement counselling - but we muddled through with all the pain and we re-discovered the closeness in time.

I don't have any other words of comfort other than to share with you that sadly it does all feel crap - but things will change and you will feel, if not better, a bit less crap in time.....

Sorry to hear that things not great with your DH - are you able to talk to him about how you are feeling?

Big hug x

Oh thank you both. My parents aren't together which makes things more emotionally difficult, and my dad's wife tends to get in the way - none of us wanted her around when my brother was ill (especially him) but obviously we had no choice. It's good (well, not really good but you know what I mean) to hear that other families react in this way. I'm even finding it hard to talk to my other brother and all three of us were always so incredibly close.

MissM, I so feel for you. I've had the same thing with my other brother. He dreams of Jonny all the time too, whereas I don't at all . It's not fair! We don't talk that much about Jonny, even though I know he still hurts, he tends to keep it all to himself. And I know what you mean about everyone seeming to suffer by themselves. Sadly, it's a lonely path through grief, no matter how close we are. I do hope that in time it will get better for us both...

For a time my relationship with my dh was awful too. I found it so hard to relate tom him, and I guess he found it hard to see me so upset all the time. But that does get better too, though not the same as before. I still have trouble sharing my grief with him cos I know he doesn't understand it. Even though we are a few moths down the line, it is still reall early days and I guess you do still have to give yourself time.

A big hug for you this evening xx

Do you know why you don't dream of Jonny EM? I'm wondering whether it's because I'm on anti-depressents - I was on them before he died cos I had mild PND, but I'm wondering if they have stopped me feeling so much. We went to see a film last night that he would have loved and I found myself thinking, 'this shouldn't have come out now, it should have come out before so he could have seen it', and feeling quite angry at the distributors!

DH isn't a big talker or sharer of emotions at the best of times, and although he sits and listens to me when I'm crying and trying to make sense of it all he doesn't make much response which I find frustrating. He helps in practical ways, but I know he doesn't really understand my grief either. He says he feels our pain, but he obviously doesn't know how to relieve it. It's so tough with two small children and having recently moved house. Too many life changes all at once!

Thank you all for your support here x

I've no idea! I mean I think about him all day long! I just don't know. Maybe one day... So I wouldn't say it's necessarily because of your ADs. Let me know if you do dream of your brother one day. It'll give me hope!

8 months yesterday.

Found out also yesterday that my folks aren't gonna be here for his birthday in March. I'm shocked and disappointed. I thought it would be a day we'd spend togther, remembering him. Not so, I guess. I'm wondering if I can lose enough weight and get slightly more fit in 5 weeks so I can go climbing with my other brother on Jonny's birthday. They loved climbing together, so it seems appropriate, but I'd find it so hard in my current state. Maybe it's just a pipe dream...

Hi everyone, sorry I've not posted for all while but I've been finding things really hard.

I'm finding it difficult to talk about how I'm feeling, but some of the recent posts on here talking about how relationships have been affected have struck a chord with me and made me realise that I am perhaps not alone in feeling that Steve's death has thrown a lot of my relationships into disarray.

I don't know if I have unrealistic expectations of people but I feel I have had very little support from my family and closest friend and it is adding to my distress.

None of my relatives have contacted me - we are not a particularly close family but I thought perhaps some of my uncles, aunts or cousins might at least have phoned me. My cousins - who mostly live locally didn't even come to the funeral.

My mother, who my brother and I had a difficult childhood with, has not once called me to see how I am. I know she is greiving too, but so am I and I still take the time to check om her. But it is only me who ever gets in contact.

But I have been most disappointed by my closest friend. Her father died a couple of years ago and I gave her lots of support throughtout his illness and the aftermath of his death. My dh went and picked her up { she lives 100 miles away } the day her df died and she stayed with us for a week or so and I helped her with all the funeral arrangements and going through the probate process afterwards. She hasn't reciprocated this care now that it is me that has suffered a loss, has only phoned me a few times and didn't even bother to phone me the day before my db's funeral and to be quite honest I had expected her to offer to come up and support me.

We were talking a couple of weeks ago and I got upset about Steve and the battery on her phone went so she just left me in tears and hasn't bothered to phone back in more than 2 weeks. I would have phoned her back either straight away on a landline or as soon as my phone was charged to check she was ok.She has been off work for the past few weeks anyway { she temps and had no work } and again I would have thought she might have offered to come and see me.

I don't know if my expectations are unreasonable and whether I am just a horrible person for feeling this way { which is one of the reasons I find it hard to talk about } but I know that I would and have been more caring to my friends and family.

I don't really know what to do about my friend - she tried to call me yesterday but I didn't answer as I don't know what to say to her. I feel like I can't be bothered with the relationship if there is no mutual support when the chips are down, but don't want to talk to her about it as I can't cope with any more stress and she probably wouldn't take it too well and I don't know if it is just me being over sensitive.

Sorry, this is very long and probably just me unburdening. but you are the only people I know that I can say this to, with some understanding of how I am feeling.

dear winetime - am at your friend - can't imagine not wanting to support a friend at a time like this some people are very odd. I guess death does alter relationships more than you'd think. Just wanted to offer a hug from here to you xxx

Thank you for your replies everlong and MaryAnn.

I feel the same, everlong that my friendship with her will never be the same now. This has affected so many relationships and made me realise that when the chips are down the only person I can rely on is my dh. There is no one else. I know I am lucky that I have my dh and he has been very supportive but I had expected more from my friend. Her lack of support has been highlighted as my brother had 2 really good friends who I had never met until he died and we have kept in touch over the past weeks and it has made me realise that I don't have friends like that in my life. I only thought I did.

I don't even want to write to her as even though I feel that she hasn't been terribly supportive, I'm still not sure if I am just being over sensitive. I think I am a very solid friend and someone you can always rely on but that I perhaps have too high expectations that others will behave in a similar way to me. I just can't be bothered with all the fall out confronting her would cause. She phoned again tonight and I didn't answer again and I feel bad about that but just don't know hwat to say to her. We have been friends for nearly 20 years and Ifeel like this is another loss.

I miss my brother so much as he was very similar to me and so I could talk to him and know he understood exactly what I meant. I miss that so much.

My gp sent me for some counselling but it was useless tbh - the counsellor was very young and inexperienced and didn't have a clue really. I came away from it feeling even worse.

I feel like I'm flailing around looking for something to grab on to but just can't find what I need.

Thank you so much for your understanding and the hugs, which are both gratefully received. I will never forget the care and support that I got from this thread before my brother's funeral, which was far more than I got from my rl friend.
Winetime xxx

Winetime, how awful about your friend. I'm so sorry you're not getting the support from her you would like or need.

I don't think you are being over sensitive, at all. It's completely normal to expect support from your friends, but sadly they don't/can't always step up to the mark. It's been my experience too. I think that some people, no matter how close they are to us, just don't know how to deal with death, and at a guess, I'd say particularly so with a suicide or tragic death.

Could it be though that she is trying to make up for it by calling you two nights in a row? I totally understand that you don't have the energy to take that on though, the last thing you need is having to explain yourself to someone. But she might surprise you. I really hope she does.

What you said about your brother's friends struck a chord with me too. I've had more contact with some of Jonny's friends than I have with my own. I guess by they're knowing him, they are dealing with a loss too, so can understand yours in some way.

I hope I'm making sense. And I'm glad that you have your dh. I think that we all go through periods of trying to find something, anything, to cling on to. There's always MN if you don't find anything else.

Big hug from me too xxx

everlong, how are you getting on?

Thanks for the reply and hugs evansmummy xxx I think you are right about the common bond with the friends. It has been a great comfort to me to talk to Steve's friends, who are all lovely people and we are staying in touch. We all feel that us becoming friends is something Steve would have been pleased about and is the only positive thing that has come out of all of this.

I'm going to text my friend today, I think and say I'm not feeling great and not up to talking, to give me a bit of breathing space.
Perhaps you are right that she doesn't know how to deal with the situation, but I would have thought that she would have at least known that leaving your grieving friend crying on the phone and not bothering to ring back was insensitive. I'm sure it will all blow over in time, but I don't think I will ever feel the same about the friendship and it all just adds to my sense of loss.

Anyway, I am feeling a bit better today and more able to deal with things. Unfortunately the tearful feelings of grief are never far away. It just takes one small thing to spark me off. When it happens I do feel like I am flailing around,looking for something to take the pain away but nothing can. You just have to go through it but it is so hard.

Thank you all for your support, I can't tell you how much it helps me. Hugs xxxxxxxxxx

Hello everyone. I checked into this at 3am this morning when I woke up in tears. I didn't write anything cos I wasn't sure how to express myself. I feel like I've been in some kind of numbing force field for the past few weeks, not crying, not feeling. Now today I feel utterly devestated and sad sad sad.

WT I have been thinking about your friend and her reasons for not supporting you. All I can think is that she is either still grieving her dad and still doesn't have the capacity to give, even to her best friend, or that she is avoiding you as some kind of protective measure to herself cos it's so upsetting and she's scared it might make her crack again. I don't know - I don't know her, but it's such odd behaviour for someone who knows what you're going through and had so much support from you that those are the only conclusions I can draw.

There's also the aspect that others have said that people just don't know what to say, so they say nothing. Which is certainly my experience. But she should know better.

Oh MissM I wish had some words that would take the pain away for you. All I can say is that I think I know exactly how you are feeling and I understand how horrible it is and that you are not alone in this. It is a pain that nothing can take away and only time can dull it and for both of us it is still early days. That feeling of devastation that you describe is awful I know and the helpless, hopeless feeling that nothing can ever put it right.

I wish I could have spoken to you when you woke at 3 as I was probably awake too as I find sleeping very hard. Perhaps if you have been feeling a bit numb for a while { which I think is some sort of self protection mode your body has to go into as the grief is so bad } it was time for some of the feelings to come out.

I don't know what to think about my friend - you could well be right in your theories. It is hard to comprehend. Knowing her I tend to think that she is just not very empathetic and doesn't even realise she hasn't been very supportive. I have texted her to say I'm not feeling up to talking right now and haven't heard any more from her. It all seems part of the unending horribleness surrounding Steve's death and makes me feel very isolated in rl.

I will keep my eye on this thread today, in case you want to talk to someone, MissM.
Lots of love and hugs, Winetime xxxxxx

MissM, hugs to you xx

I can totally understand that period of numbness. I've had them too, and it always seems so cruel when it goes and the raw pain comes flooding back in. I think winetime is right, it's like your body shuts down for a bit in order for you not to go under with it. I feel so sad for you.

No special or useful words, I'm sorry, but loads and loads of love coming your way. If I could be there I'd just hug you.

xxxxxxx

Thanks guys, your hugs are so needed! I haven't looked here until today cos my work is just so busy I barely have a second. Once the kids are in bed I'm so tired! Had a big cry last night and DH brought me a glass of wine, which helped a little. And now today I feel fine again, numb but fine. I think it's the nights that it gets to me most.

WT I know what you mean about the isolation. Even though my parents and other brother and DB's wife have gone through this too, there are times that I feel just so utterly on my own. Which is when I come here!

Miss M

A bit belated but just a few more hugs from me too.

Completely recognise those phases of numbeness and then overwhelming sadness - it's those waves of grief that many people talk about. And when people say that awaful thing of 'it gets better with time' (which I must admit can drive me mad at times, although understand people are being well-meaning when they say it) - I think what happens is that those waves become a little less rough.

5 years on though for me and I will ride along on the waves for a lot of the time and then get wiped out by a massive 'white horse' of a wave - had one of those recently and feeling a bit low at the moment. Still angry all these years on I'm afraid - my DB died at 40 of prostate cancer - and I am cross about that!!

Anyway, didn't mean to come on and have too much of a moan - genuinely wanted to send you some hugs and support. Hope you manage to get some better sleep - camomile tea, Horlicks?!! It's awful because I think once your sleep pattern gets mucked about - it is really hard to get it back.

Also WT - feel for you and the difficulty with your friend - a really good friend of mine was very distant just when I needed her most and it really surprised me. We have never really talked about it - and we are still very close, but it did make me feel a bit sad that she didn't try a bit harder at the time. I do think it was because she found it difficult to know what to do - but at the time that does add to the lonlieness that we all feel.

Love to everyone on the thread - look after yourselves xxx

Love to everyone on the thread from me too - being able to talk to you all on here is so important to me. It has helped me more than I can say to know that I am not alone in how I am feeling.

Hope your 'white horse' has passed a bit now pushki - I'm in the middle of one of those myself at the minute so can totally empathise.

I also hope everlong is ok - I haven't seen her around for a while and feel a bit worried about her. If you are reading this but not feeling like posting at the minute everlong, just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you and with you in spirit.

Winetime xxx

Hello y'all. Am in the middle of a white horse myself as well. It's a very good description. Weirdly I feel worse after I've been having a good day - we took the kids out and had a lovely time, so lovely in fact that we didn't notice it was about an hour past their bedtime! They were so happy. But somehow afterwards I felt worse, as if I shouldn't have been having a lovely time cos DB isn't here, and also that HE should have been having a lovely time too. It's no win isn't it.

EL if you're reading this we're hoping you're ok! I wonder about some of the others who have shared their stories and not come back. I hope you're all getting through x

Well there must be something in the air. I'm going through a bad patch too. Tonight I just can't stop crying. I keep going over the images in my head of Jonny in hospital, of his face the last time I saw him awake, my imagination runs wild with images of teh accident, and I miss him, just so much I can't find words to explain it. It hurts, with real pain.

It's his birthday next Friday, he should be 25.

Hi EM
Was Jonny's birthday the 6th? My DB's was the 9th - he would have been 35 this year. We spent it last year in hospital with him as he was having his bone marrow transplant. We went out on to the roof garden and had lovely food and cakes and the kids played while we were all together. We still had so much hope then that he would come through. I can't believe that a year on he's not here.

Are you any further on with the court case?