For Jonny, and all our darling departed sisters and brothers..."their diminished size is in us, not in them".

[evansmummy]

I have remarked over the last few months that there are a number of us on this forum who are living through the death of our brothers and sisters. I would even go so far as to say I never even imagined there could be so many!

I have also noticed that the thread for bereaved mummies is the most amazing place of support, a great place to go and say how you feel without being judged, and knowing that others are going through something similar. And of course a place to go and get a good old MN hug.

So I wondered if those of you who have lost siblings would like to join me in making a place where we can say how we are feeling and to be here for each other, and even to gripe and moan! If you are interested, just let us know a bit about your sibling and a bit about your grief journey if you like. I'll start!

My youngest brother Jonny died a little over five months ago as a result of head injuries sustained during a hit and run accident. My family spent a week in intensive care with him in a coma before he died of heart failure on Fri 30th May 2008. Horrible, just horrible.

I feel down most of the time. But will admit to the strangest mood swings, from very depressed to almost hyper-excited. I still drink and smoke a lot, but less than right at the beginning. Suffice to say that things are not getting easier or better. Maybe even the opposite. I'm dreading Christmas, Jonny's birthday, and then the inquest and court case. I hate it all so much and wish often that it would just all go away. I still can't believe I'm writing this tuff about my own brother.

It's hard to quickly put into a short paragraph the pain and turmoil of the last five months. But I'm sure if this thread works out we'll have plenty of time to go into more detail.

Over to you...

Love Me xx

He will. It won't help you or your family, but he will. And if he doesn't then he's a pretty worthless person. I'm so sorry.

Sorry to hear that you didn't get the result you were expecting from Jonny's hearing evansmummy. I can only echo what MissM has said and add that I have some belief in karma and that having done something so awful the perpetrator will pay in some way.

As you say though none of it will bring Jonny back but if justice had been served it might have given some small comfort.

I was a witness at my brother's inquest last Tuesday and that also didn't have the result we expected. The coroner gave an open verdict rather than suicide as there was no suicide note left. His clerk explained afterwards that this particular coroner always takes that view but most others would have given a suicide verdict. There were a couple of new things that came out that were very upsetting - he had made a previous attempt 7 months previously but got out of the car before it was too late and also on his final successful time he had turned tha car engine off so we don't know if he had changed his mind again but it was too late. The horribleness of it all seems endless really.

It also makes me sad to read how much other people's brothers had wanted to live but couldn't because of illness or accident but my db was perfectly healthy but just didn't want to live. I have to admit that it makes me feel ashamed of him. I love him but will never be able to understand why he did what he did when there were so many other things he could have done.

Oh winetime your post is so sad. So many unanswered questions for you. Did you have any idea that he was so low? Do you know if he'd got any help after his first attempt? Sorry if these are painful questions for you - you don't have to answer them.

I dreamt I had cancer last night. No rocket science needed to work out what that dream meant. I also dreamt I was climbing out of my brother's window in the house we grew up in. One of the panes was smashed. No rocket science there either.

Go to and fro about getting counselling. How is it going for any of you others?

evansmummy so sorry about the hearing So sorry that people are such shits, basically. If the guy has any human parts at all he will live a half-life for the rest of his days, haunted by the knowledge of what he has done.

Winetime also very sorry to hear that you are struggling with the difficult emotional soup that comes with a suicide. I still find myself beset with hard times over my mum's suicide and that happened nearly 20 years ago. Completely know what you mean about feeling ashamed in some way; I never used to, I used to be so understanding of her right to choose etc. and I do still believe that it is everyone's right to exercise choice over their existence...but now that I've seen my brother fight so hard to live, I am sad to say that a new contempt for my mum has come to light She left us a note that said she wished she could stay. I used to accept that at face value; now I just think "well then, you should have". Doubly so since DS was born.

I also suspect that she didn't really mean to die, that it was a cry for help, otherwise why did she call my dad in a panic, asking for help? So many questions with no answers. That is the legacy of suicide, that is why it robs the living of their choice.

MissM my db was always a bit of a negative person and I think that made it hard for us to see that he wasn't right - looking back it is much easier and I think how could I have not seen it. He didn't seem depressed though, all of us. friends and family feel that. Not depressed in an easily recognisable way, anyway.
Had I known about his previous suicide attempt than I would have tried to intervene in some way but he made sure none of his family knew about it. He was apparently seen by the crisis mental health team on the night of his first attempt but told them they couldn't help him and refused any further contact with them.
I must have seen him shortly after that attempt and obviously didn't discern any deterioration in him.
I don't think he wanted us to know how he really was to be honest as he knew we would have done our utmost to prevent him doing what he did. He had made his mind up to kill himself and had decided on the method - it was just a case of when.
It still seems unreal to me that he did it - I cry about him most days still and know that I will forever have to live with the guilt that I didn't do something to prevent it. Cyteen your description of suicide being an emotional soup is so apt. Amongst the grief there are feelings of anger with him and also, as I said I feel ashamed that so many others want to live and he threw his life away. But then I feel terrible for thinking those things because he must have been suffering. I just wish he had sought help and was still here. I miss him so much.

winetime, your posts have made me cry. Whatever our different circumstances are, I feel your sadness in that place where grief actually hurts. You know somewhere around your diaphragm, where there is real pain?... I wish we could bring them all back.

I also think that whatever the details of a death, those left alive are filled with unanswerable questions: could I have prevented it, did i tell them how much i loved them, did i do enough? It goes on and on and sadly, the only way through it is to trust that no, we couldn't, and yes, I did. Otherwise we'll all end up in a pit.

I texted Jonny about ten minutes after he was hit by the car. I wish I'd phoned him, quarter of an hour earlier, and this would never have happened.

We had news today that the rest of Jonny's organs have been released. We can go ahead with the interment. I feel so scared at the sudden finality of it. With no court case to cling on to, and the interment on its way, there is nothing to do now to escape the horrible realisation that HE IS DEAD.

MissM, in answer to your question about counselling, I wouldn't be without mine. She is very wise though, and I think I was lucky cos I've also heard of people who had rubbish counsellors. She listens, allows me to say anything, gives advice and sometimes just lets me cry. I look forward to each session, knowing it's an outlet for my pain, that I just don't have anywhere else.

evansmummy I am sorry I made you cry. It is good that we can all share here but it is very emotional hearing each other's stories, isn't it. I find I can only come here at certain times as I know it stirs up so many emotions and I will end up in tears.

I know exactly what you mean about havung nothing to cling on to to escape the realsiation that it is final. The prospect of the inquest was something that kept us linked and now that is over I feel adrift. We still have to scatter his ashes so that is the final thing and I feel like I don't want to do it as then the practical aspects of his death will be pretty much over.

I am back here today as it is my birthday and I am missing him so much as we spent a lovely day together on my last birthday. I can tell you lovely ladies, knowing that you understand.

MissM I agree with evansmummy that it all depends on getting a good counsellor - my gp referred me and the counsellor was not good at all and it ended up making me feel worse. It has put me off the idea to be honest but I think if you can find someone like evansmummy has it must be very beneficial.

Winetime your post also made me feel so very sad. It must be agony. I haven't got anything useful or helpful to say, except that I am amazed on this thread at how much sadness people are having to bear.

It's coming up for six months since my brother died and I can't believe it. I'm dreading the day that marks it to be honest. It still feels so recent - how can it be six months? How have we got through this six months?

I totally understand that feeling MissM. I have lost whole chunks of time, just do not know where they have gone. We passed the ten month anniversary on Monday, unbelievable.

Winetime, sorry didn't get on here yesterday. Hope your birthday was ok, and that you did something, if small, to celebrate it. I think brithdays, anniversaries, Christmas etc are gonna be the hardest times, they carry so many memories.

I'm moping around an awful lot at the moment. Just can't be bothered to do anything. My studies are really suffering for it though. Can't seem to help myself.

What I'd really like is for him to pop up in a dream and tell me to get my arse in gear, stop moping and wasting time cos he still loves me and wants the best for us all. I'd just like to be able to see him one more time, hold him again and tell him what a great brother he is. I miss him so much.

It's my brother and SIL's third wedding anniversary today and at the end of the month it will be the second anniversary of his death. Yay April.

Cyteen,I hope that you got through yesterday ok. These 'special' days when you would normally always see them are very hard to bear.

I kept having these moments of expectation on my birthday that my db would just turn up as he usually did. It made it really hit home that he was gone when he didn't - sounds so stupid that my brain still refuses to fully accept he is not here any more.It was a very emotional day and it has made me feel almost back to square one again in my grief levels.

I can empathise with everything you said in your last post eveansmummy - the moping and feeling like I can't be bothered. I also wish I could get some sign from him but I haven't even dreamt about him. A couple of his friends have had some things happen that they think are messages from him - the latest being one of them getting a missed call from his mobile phone number which is inexplicable as I have his phone packed away in the boxes of his stuff and it hasn't been touched for months.

Thanks Winetime, it passed okay. That one's not such a bad day for me as I only have happy memories of a wonderful day - my SIL obviously has more complex emotions about it. The end of the month is when things will get really bad for me.

Speaking of which, I have still heard nothing from Cruse after my initial assessment. I know they have a waiting list but I was told it was about 10 weeks, not 4 months. I rang the office to see what was going on and was told that someone would let me know what's going on...they haven't (and the woman I spoke to got my name wrong straight after I'd spelled it for her, which really pisses me off!)

I just saw this thread in active convo's and wanted to say what a beautiful title it has got. Love and peace to you and your siblings xxx

Found a picture of my brother today that I'd forgotten I had. It was a bit after he'd been diagnosed but he was still fit as a fiddle and raring to go. He looks brilliant -long hair, beard, healthy and happy. It was the start of one of the best periods of his life. It was lovely to find as a)we look so alike and b)it's not of him ill. It also means he's been with me all day - in fact I almost half expected him to call.

Sorry you've had no luck with Cruse Cyteen. This is what worries me - that I'll get it together to contact them, and then I'll hear nothing.

I just fancied some drunken ramblings tonight but i fear i have left it too late and need to pass out. I wish I could give you all proper big hugs.

Needless to say I'm having a abd patch. Why did this have to happen? he had so much ahead of him. it feels so unfair and makes me so angry.

i hate that our brothers have died so young. and that there are no explanations for it. I want to make sense of it and just can't. i feel totally and utterly lost. on auto pilot. brave face most of the time but really all i want to do is to cry and cry. i just want him back.

sorry, i'm being self-indulgent. will amke up for it. just needed to rant

Hope the hangover wasn't too bad evansmummy after Saturday night - wish I had been around to have had a bit of a ramble over a glass of wine with you.

The things you say resonate so much with me as I am feeling so many of the same feelings and you verbalise them for me. This thread has helped me so much, to be around others that {unfortunately } know exactly where you are coming from - I don't know what I would have done without it. I too feel such affection for everyone on here and like you I wish I could give everyone a 'proper big hug'.

I have had a constant hangover since last weekend . The sentencing was yesterday and all week I've been stressed about it and drinking every night. Yuk.

Yesterday was a nightmare, a complete shambles. The prosecutor was rubbish, didn't seem to defend the law at all, and the defense claimed all sorts of mitigating factors which made the sentence a joke:

for the careless driving which killed Jonny - £180 fine, payable at the rate of £5 a week as he's on benefits

for the failing to stop and failing to report - 80 hours 'community service'

for the dangerous driving - 12 month ban and 40 hours community service

He basically walks away with a slapped wrist. It was disgusting being there listening to what sounded to us like 'poor old soul, knocked down a drunkard, not really his fault'. Noone seemed to be defending the interests of the victim (ie my brother) and the law.

It's not much of a deterrent, is it?

What was also hard was seeing him cry, mouth to us 'I'm so sorry', and my mother, forgiving as she is, giving him a hug after the sentencing. I'm so angry toward him I can't understand how she could do that!

That's awful evansmummy, I can understand why you feel so angry. Is there any way to appeal ?

It just beggars belief - there are no deterrents any more. I don't think I could have hugged him but at least he showed some remorse as there seem to be plenty these days that don't. Perhaps for your mum forgiving him has helped give her some peace of mind, which if so is good.

I know I would feel very upset about the outcome and would probably dwell on it far more than was good for me but if you let it eat away at you and ruin your life, then he has claimed another victim.

I hope that somehow you can move on from this - your db will know that you have tried to do your best for him.

xx

Thank winetime. We're talking about appealing on the grounds of 'unduly lenient sentence'. Not sure how far we'd get but I don't feel that we've yet done our best for Jonny. I think he does feel remorse, but I also think his tears on Friday were as much from relief as anything else.

I feel worse now than I did before. I thought that justice would somehow make me feel better. Sadly, no justice, so I don't feel any better.

I also think I've monopolised this way too much. How are you (and everyone else!) doing?

cyteen, when is the anniversary?

MissM How's things with you?

evansmummy, do you think you might benefit from meeting with him and explaining exactly what he has done to your family? I'm not sure whether there's a specific scheme where people do this or if it's something that is arranged ad hoc, but I'm sure I've heard about families meeting with offenders to try and make them understand the impact of their crimes. Forgive me if this is an inappropriate suggestion, I don't know much about it so am just talking off the top of my head.

Anniversary of Si's death is tomorrow. I hope there's some sunshine so I can go for a walk. If not I'll just have to play his records really loud or something

This month has been so grim, moodwise, that the actual day seems to hold less fear for me.

I have finally started reading a book on adult sibling loss that I bought two years ago - didn't feel able to start till now. I must say that I'm finding it incredibly helpful; it seems to have validated a lot of my feelings that I couldn't put a name to, including the sense that my grief and loss is less valid in the eyes of many people around me than those of others like my parents and SIL. When I tell people that I've lost my brother I am often quite dismayed by how uninterested they seem, and while I appreciate that there are many possible reasons for this I do think that a lot of people just don't respect the devastation caused by sibling loss.

So here it is today. Two years ago I was sitting in a hospital room with all my family waiting for my brother to die. Can't believe it's been two years without him; can't believe there will be so many more ahead with no phone calls, no music sharing, no laughter, no big brother hugs. Am pissed off that I'm having to go through the whole tedious process of fixing myself again. I wish none of it had ever happened and today was just another April day.

I have not forgotten you Simon, not an inch of how you lived or how you died. I will always be your sister.

us

cyteen, beautiful message and beautiful picture. I have tears in my eyes. I feel so sad for you and wish this wasn't so real. I'm thinking of you this evening.

Have you managed to go for a walk today?

Hello all. I've not been here for a while. Cyteen your message has brought tears to my eyes too, and what a brilliant picture. It was a lovely day where I live - hope it was with you and you got out.

I am sad sad sad at the moment too. I was having a dream about my brother the other night which was wonderful - as the regulars on here know I fret so much that I haven't dreamt about him - when DD woke up crying for me. I was so pissed off - desperately tried to get the dream back after I'd comforted her but of course it was gone. My other brother dreams of him all the time but wishes he didn't as he wakes screaming and crying. Ironically I would want even that!

Thinking of you all as ever.

It's funny, isn't it, whenever I break down and really cry, I always think of all of you and your brothers too.

MissM, you had a dream! DD might've spoiled it, but YOU HAD A DREAM!! At last. A bit of one is better than none at all, maybe? I'm still waiting for mine.

I also wanted to say that what you said before, cyteen, about people not realising the pain of losing a sibling, really struck a chord with me. Lots of people have said to me over tha past nearly 12 months, must be awful for your parents, and of course, it is. But, man, it's awful for us too! I guess not everyone is close to their siblings so not everyone feels it.

I miss him so much, every day.

I have his interment to arrange as my folks are in France. I wanted to take the pressure off them but now it's on me and I'm not sure how I'm gonna deal with it

Really sending you lots of love and peace this evening, cyteen.

EM that's a really nice thing to say - you're right, I did. I feel quite tearful when I think of it as you put it. Thank you.

Cyteen, your words about people not realising that pain have really stayed with me since I read your post. If I was a journalist I'd want to write an article about it! I talked to my other brother about it and we wondered whether the three of us were just particularly close and other people just don't have that relationship so can't relate. But clearly they do, as shown on this thread.

EM is there anyone strong and a bit removed emotionally who can help you with the internment? That way you can stay strong too.