Misty breeze wraps about my shoulders, thinly clad. I shiver not, despite the coolness on my skin. Comfort, I now feel. Is it you my precious Angel?

[chipmonkey]

Starting a new thread for our angel babies
Sylvie-Rose 16/8/11 to 4/10/11 too short my love, too short.

Expat I live in fife, so not that far from your new home

Hi I'm at my mums do, leaving in 10mins, can't wait to get out of here. X expat would place sounds lovely. There's some relatives here I've not seen since I had and ds died. He has not even been mentioned. It's as if he never existed. Can't wait to get out of here x x

white he did exist!! He did matter, and he does matter It's the people who don't mention him who don't matter...

expat I am so sorry your time in the US is proving so arduous. Just simply not what you need. Is there not a friend or a place to which you can escape and salvage some private time for you and your DH?

But I love the idea of a meet-up at yours next year!! I can bring all my own camping gear, and will bring lots of bubbly to toast our beautiful children.

matilda yes, it is hard to remain close with your OH all the time. I have been very angry and resentful of MrMia in the lead-up towards Christmas, and I am just hoping it is simply hormones, as I have no particular reason to do so. He is an amazing, loving, generous man, and I sometimes forget that...

chip did you manage to make it to see Sylvie-Rose today?

cafe astounded at the lack of kindness and hospitality showed to you yesterday...

We had a generally happy Christmas with the whole family around us. Finn was a little cuddly parcel passed around continuously, and Mia was remembered throughout the day in all kinds of ways. Plenty of tears, but laughter and smiles too. But it was hard when Mia's cousins were discussing that she died and that she was an angel now, and kindly suggested that that they could call her down so I could have a cuddle with her and Finn at the same time... very sweet, very innocent.

I have just got back from my parents house where we spent Christmas. DH and I did appreciate the invitation and we think the kids enjoyed it, but I found it more and more of a struggle. There was almost no acknowledgement of DS; a brief toast from my sister which was nice and a candle lit by my mum but we didn't really speak about him for three days. My dad did not acknowledge DS once.

I gave my mum and dad a photo album of pics of DS, including them holding him on the day he was born. My mum looked at them first and then she must have passed them over to my dad. My dad then passed the album to me and said, 'I think this is yours'. I told him I had made it for them both. He said nothing. No 'thank you', no comment about the photos. Nothing.

My other kids don't really want to acknowledge him either.

I began to feel like I wanted to explode. I ended up focusing on my useless relationship with my dad, instead of DS. Now I feel just dreadful. Sulky, depressed, lonely. I wish I could cry with my family and feel that they might cry with me. I have got more affection from strangers. What will now follow is polite thank you letters. All i want is a hug and for my family to have loved my son, rather than pretend he barely existed.

Booking my place at expats for next year xx

mias mummy, thanks, i think it might be because my son died on the same day shortly after he was born they did not meet him, and it seems as if they didnt meet him so to them he doesnt exist, i'm trying ot not let it bother me though because they are only distant relations, well cousins, and we only really see them once a year or at big do's like weddings etc

my dad said a few kind words to me, like he was so pleased we came, and when he said are you ok, and i said yeah i'm ok, and asked are you, and he said i'm alot better for seeing you.

then when we left he hugged me and said youve done really well today.
which was nice of him, as i felt like he was understanding how difficult today was for me.
mind you i was crying at their house last week saying that i wasnt sure how long we would be staying

now i just feel really drained, as soon as we got int he car to drive home, my eyes filled with tears.
but i managed to get us home and we watched arthur christmas just us three me dh and dd and have just tucked dd into bed for the night.

think i might pour myself a drink in a moment

one thing i really want to get or make is a very special candle for ds.
something i can light whenever i like, something engraved or personalised.

saint vera, that must have really hurt when your dad did that, i'm sorry to hear that.
i get really fed up of the way we are supposed to be so forgiving about other people lack of empathy/understanding, poor them and how hard it is for them to know what to say.
he could have at least said thankyou

i'm thinking of you

yes i would love to book a place at expats next year too

also if anyone has any ideas of how we can try and include ds a bit more on the day at christmas next year i would love to hear them, this year we had a special engraved star decoration on our christmas tree, we decorated ds apple tree in the garden, we took some extra special flowers to ds grave, we had candles on christmas day which we dont usually have, and the flower arrangement i did for the table i'm also taking to ds grave, oh and ds had two mini trees at his grave, but i still feel the need to do something more

Bless your dad, white He sounds much more 'emotionally intelligent' than my father - I wish I had a loving and expressive Daddy. Even Jim Royale is more loving than my dad!! You have done a lot to include your ds.

I hung up DS's stocking, with a little picture of him with Santa above it. We lit a candle. Apart from that, I have done very little to include him. He hasn't got a grave or a memorial yet. I went to the churchyard by my parents house and read the gravestones of some of the people I used to know in their village, including children. Many of the graves were decorated with Christmas wreaths and candles etc., which was touching.

Next year, we will do more. I am already planning a party in the summer. I dread holding parties but I will make it happen.

thanks saint vera, i have tried to include ds. if he is watching i want him to know me are really missing him, and i want ot include him anyway

i wish your dad could just be more open, hes probably really hurting but afraid to open up
i dont think not sharing your grief helps anyone.

it must be lovely to have your ds' stocking, as my ds died so soon we don't have many of his things, as he didnt have much, just things like blankets and baby grows teddies and just baby things really

are you holding the party in your sons memory?

yes white, I hope to. DH wants to get a plaque on a bench in the local park so we may have the party there, or in the place we had his wake, which is a nursery with a huge garden. He died on 9th July, so the weather may be good enough then.

We really need a grave to go to. I like the idea of a tree but our back garden is tiny. Maybe we will adopt one in the park near the bench.

I honestly believe my father barely feels a thing about my son apart from confusion. He hardly saw him in 6 years as DS had challenging behaviour and couldn't go to their house. My sister hadn't seen him at all for longer. It was a lonely life being the parent of a severely disabled child and a lonely bereavement too. I feel so sad.

that sounds a lovely idea, the bench and party.
i hope the sun comes out for you on the 9th if july

i really love having ds tree, i love to see it from the house, we don't have much space in the garden as its like dds playground, so we have a miniture apple tree in a large barrel.
its lovely as you can plant, plants around the base so it has a bit of colour, its taller than i am.
its decorated with lights and baubles and a snowglobe bauble my newphew hung on it for ds.
at easter we are going to decorate it with easter things, like some sort of painted eggs and little animal decorations, chicks and rabbits etc.

but you only need about 80-90cm space for it, as you only need to fit in a barrel type planter, so the mini trees can fit in the smallest garden.

the church where ds is buried is a good 10 min walk from our home, so its nice to have something in our garden too.
i personally find having a grave to go to hugely helpful, it also feel validating for me somehow, esp as most people didnt meet ds, its like it is real, ds waas here.

i'm so sorry you feel so sad, i wish i was there to hug you and just let you cry.
does your dad have some kind of dementia or is he just confussed in general.
i'm so sorry you feel so lonely, i'm here to talk to anytime.

oh thank you white. I feel very attached to this forum, as much as I hate being on it. You seem to be the only people speaking the same language as me at the moment.

My dad is just emotionally absent. He is selfish and had a bit of a crap childhood and cannot manage to say anything affectionate to his daughters. I won't change him, but it never stops hurting. I expect I have hurt him too but I can't think how to build a bridge to a man who is not really interested in his children.

A tree in a pot is a great idea, as is decorating it. My back yard is a shithole. I will do something about it. I mentioned before my idea to have a lovely smooth stone engraved with DS's name for the back yard

yeah i'm attached to this part too, and everyone on it. its a bit of a life line isnt it, to have people to chat to that understand.
that simply get how you feel

i have no idea how to communicate with people that are emotially absent either, my inlaws tend to be a bit like that.
i just carry on talking aboutds to them, sometimes i do it on purpose as if to say you will not ignore him
immature probably but thats what i do

oh the smoth stone engraved is a lovely idea. what colour do you think you will go for?
i like pottering around in the garden, but im a pottering type of person

white, your Dad sounds so lovely. I think mine would have been the same. He was the life and the soul of our family and very wise. Not a perfect person but very in-tune when it came to emotions. I miss him dreadfully but know that he'll keep Sylvie-Rose safe xx

I used to love gardening but I don't seem to have much enthusiasm for anything. I hope it returns..

I thought of a large, smooth slate pebble. The local hospice engraves smaller slate pebbles with the children's names in gold - they are beautiful and simple. I could take the pebbles with me if I move house.

Well done for carrying on talking about ds to your inlaws. I think that is brave. I just get sulky and quiet like a teenager, which is more immature.

Just want to say white that I think you do baby Orchid proud in so many ways - in the countless thoughtful ways in which you remember him, the love and care with which you prepare beautiful things for him and the courageous way in which you speak up for him, even when people don't want to listen. You're an inspiration.

There's not a second when I don't ache for my boy but I don't seem to be able to 'do' anything to mark the fact he was here. I barely seem able to even light a candle at the moment. I wonder if it would make me feel better if I did? When I found myself crying at another baby's grave yesterday I did have a pang that we don't have a grave for D, though at the time I just couldn't face the idea of it and wanted him with me. Little Brenda died nearly 50 years ago and the grave is very neglected. I've got a strong urge to go and tidy it up and leave some flowers ....maybe if I had a place to visit for D I'd find it a comfort. Maybe I'll look after Brenda's instead, if that's not too weird??

Such a lovely offer from Expat. Thank you. And I'm so glad you are moving, it sounds like it's what you wanted and needed xxx

SaintVera, I too would like to give you a huge hug if that's not too much hugging for one day!! Like White I tend to let my family off the hook a bit because they never met D, so I tell myself that he's less real to them, but for you it must be so heartbreaking.

I can already feel a bit of tension lifting now that Christmas is over...guess it's just new year to get through but I've never made a big deal of that anyway so it will be easier just to shut that out, whereas Christmas in this family is compulsory jollity all the way. Found myself dancing to Gangnam Style earlier this evening. Actually it was very therapeutic. Or maybe thats the wine talking.

Love to all xx

thanks chip, yeah i can talk to my dad, he suffered with really bad depression when i was a child and he know its better to not bottle things up and to get things off your chest.
it was nice how he has a way of getting me on my own, as when he asked me if iwas ok, it was out in the hall way away from everyone else

the when he said well done youve done well today, it was walking us to the car, even though they had a house full

he gets it right, the way he says it and the tone
i try to be like him

hows your day been today chip?

saintvera, oh yes slate sounds lovely, i love the way it looks so nice, when its dry and wet
good idea to get something portable. as you never know if you will ever move.
suppose thats another good thing about the tree in a barrel, you can move it, well if you get some one very strong.
i sound like a tree salesman don't i.
guess its just somehting that somehpw helps me
do you have any plans to move sometime soon?

well thanks, i just refuse to let them ignore ds or pretend he didnt exist so in a weird way i sometimes wonder if i talk about ds even more when they are about

is there anything you'd like to do in your garden, i'd like to spend a bit on decorating and buying new things for the house, but we are pretty skint tbh.

matilda, thats really kind of you to say, thankyou.
i've been feeling like i need to do more, somehow include ds more, yet been struggling to come up with any ideas, so its touched me that you think that i have done is nice.

yes i think it would be nice to care for little brendas grave, you might find it helps in someway.
i tidy up other graves, most of them are well loooked after, but things blow over in the wind etc, so i just tidy up a bit.
it definatly helps me having a special place to go, i go often but don't usually stay for long.
i usually pop down check on the flowers, give them a trim and some fresh water, the keep an eye on them and change them when they are nearly finished
i usually feel calmer after doing that.
ds is buried in a lovely village churchyard which helps as theres not many graves really. it a closed churchyard, but they made a special exception for my ds, which was really good of them.
as the said its exceptional circumstances when a baby dies.
they got special permission from the arch deacon, or someone in high authority.

i'm glad you can feel the tension lifting, i think i can a tiny bit too, think thats why my eyes filled the min i got in the car to come home, like at least i can breathe now

do anyone you have much on at new year?

we just have a day at the inlaws on news years day

Mias, glad you found so many ways to remember and include Mia this Christmas, and that it passed peacefully. I'm sure the combination of Christmas build-up and pregnancy hormones leaving the body has a lot to answer for so it's no wonder if you and MrMia are feeling the tension.

DP and I often fall out at Christmas so I dont know why I thought this year would be any different. It seems to bring out the worst in us as a couple! Thanks also to Chip for your words of wisdom and understanding.

Shabba, what you wrote about your lovely mum moved me to tears.

matilda thanks so much for the hug. One for you too. I love a bit of Gangnam Style myself. I find dancing really therapeutic at the moment. My family are more stiff upper lip, 'don't mention the war' types. We had to fight to get TOTP on on Christmas Day - I got up and danced by myself and I know my parents thought I was a stupid loon.

I think that is lovely looking after Brenda's grave. I cleared a few leaves off little graves myself over Christmas.

I will definitely sort my garden out and get a tree. I have a crab apple tree in a pot but it has always been diseased. Time to replace it with Sean's tree. A goal to aim for.

So lovely talking with you ladies tonight. It has helped as always. Sleep well everyone xxxxx

I find ds' grave very comforting. Sometimes I sit there for hours, even in the rain and feel a little of his presence. We all went there yesterday and his friend had left flowers and a note to tell him what she got from Santa - I found that really heartbreaking. We were at home yesterday, just the four of us - we will do a bit of visiting later in the week but not looking forward to it

I defy anyone not to feel better after a blast of Gangnam Style. My nieces and nephews had me in stitches they are so good at the moves. SaintVera I have an amusing image in my head of you dancing in front of the TV while your family sit with their arms folded... xx

Night all xx

good to hear about matilda and saintv having a good dance.

how everyone doing today, i'm feeling a bit calmer.
i like the day after boxing day just us three chilling out at home, still in our pjs, dd doing a sticker book, i'm catching up with corrie while surfing the web.

Kneecaps, how lovely of Seán's little friend to leave a letter like that and yet, how heartbreaking for you too. I don't mind the rain and the dark when I go to Sylvie-Rose's grave. Mind you, it's Ireland, so you wouldn't want to mind the rain or dark or you'd go nowhere from October to April!
I had to work today. It was OK but I made a patient cry! She asked about whether I had children for Santa in the house and I couldn't leave Sylvie-Rose out and the poor lady cried for me! I felt bad but then thought, wow, I am in a situation that makes other people cry, poor me! I live with it day after day now. My child died. People feel sorry for me.
It's ds3's birthday. My other preemie. Alive and kicking. This time eight years ago, I was in a ward, feeling sorry for myself that he was born so early. If only I'd known that was not the worst to come. That it would happen again with a worse outcome than I could ever imagine. But I'm glad he's alive and that I brought him to see The Hobbit and that we will have a party for his friends once school starts again. That we get to do the normal things.

It's the normal that keeps us someway sane, isn't it? The having to go on for the other children and get through each day