''Even the smallest of footprints have the power to leave an everlasting imprint on the Earth'' Remembering with love our darling children

[Whatevertheweather]

Remembering not only what we have lost but what our darling children have given to us.

A new 'safe haven' thread. Thank you Chip for our last one which filled up in just a month. A sure sign of lots of tears, smiles and wonderful support.

All our children have taught us something whether they were born sleeping, lived just a little while, weeks, months or years. Here are mine:

Never ever take anything for granted, life can change very quickly.
Listen to yourself; your instincts will nearly always be right.
That it is possible to function seemingly normally with a broken heart.
That I have a wonderful relationship that can withstand the hardest of times.
That love and support can come from the most unexpected sources.
That I have a lot of very lovely friends, new and old.
That my family is amazing.
That no matter what it is impossible not to smile and laugh with my beautiful Katie around.
That a rainbow can provide hope in the darkest of times.
That there will be good days and bad days
That I love my children more than I ever thought possible.

For all our darling children xxx

I just felt her here, so strongly. It was like getting a spirit-hug I could almost physically feel her.
Also ds4 said yesterday. "Why do I belong on Earth?" Now I thought it was planet-talk. They have been doing the solar system in montessori. So I said "Because you're a human being" and he said "The Grandad with Nana Mysurname said I belong on Earth"
I'll bet he remembers nothing of it when he's grown-up.

Morning girls xx

Chip - we knew how poorly Gareth was. We were told that if he made it through the first day after he was born that was a good sign...but, beyond that we were given very little hope. He amazed everybody by surviving until he was almost 8 months old.

From somewhere (and I still cant believe our luck) we had Matt about 2 years later. It had taken me almost 4 years of trying to get conceive the twins.

Matts accident was horrific. Too horrific to even try to describe in words. It was mind consuming - IYKWIM. Senseless and horrible.

I am at peace with Gareths death...I did everything humanly possible to keep him alive. I know there is nothing more that I could have done.

Your 'hurricane' feelings describe it very well. xxx

Morning ladies. x

Well, it's really hit me now, I think the last 8 weeks have been living a dream. Now I've woken up and realised this is actually my life. I want to scream. I want someone to blame other than myself, because the guilt is eating me alive.

I've got really awful sickness and diarrhoea so I'm feeling rather sorry for myself, sorry.

Hope we all have gentle days. x

I think in the early days we are in shock, we are heartbroken, we dont know what to do...BUT there is so much to organise, so many people trying to help but not knowing how to, it all seems like a bad dream. THEN reality hits so hard. After Matt our house was full....full of friends, relatives and neighbours. It was like that for at least a month. Everybody who passed by our gate came in to ask if they could help, to just give us a hug. As the weeks went by people still cared but the world carried on turning. Even now, some 30 years after Gareth died and 20 years after Matt was killed, people still ask how we are and they are very kind. I remember about 2 months afterwards thinking 'I cant do this anymore' but, of course, I had to. I think every bereaved person (especially someone who has lost a child) feels the emotions you are feeling......you are in the very early stages of grief and I wouldn't go back to that time for a million pounds. Be gentle with yourself and take each hour as it comes. xxx

Ask My Mum How Is She

My Mum, she tells a lot of lies
She never did before.
From now until the day she dies.
She'll tell a whole lot more.

She used to tell the truth, a lot
But now it doesn't matter.
I died and went to heaven,
Her life is all a-shatter.

Ask my Mum how is she.
She'll say, 'Yes, I'm fine!'
She wants to beg 'Please help me.
I can't find that boy of mine!'

Ask my Mum, how is she,
She'll say, 'I'm alright.'
If that's the truth then tell me,
Why does she cry each night?

Ask my Mum, how is she,
She seems to cope so well.
She didn't have a choice, you see,
Nor the strength to yell.

You think you know the feeling,
But this cannot be.
For even though you loved me,
You didn't love as much as she.

She will smile and tell you,
'It's o.k. God has a plan.'
But she will turn away and cry
'Cause she just can't understand.

Tell a joke and she will laugh,
But she is not o.k.
She wants to share the joke with me,
But it will not be today.

I watch from here, in Heaven.
Her distress disturbs my peace.
Will someone please take care of her,
And thus take care of me?

'Some day you will feel better.'
'Yes I will.' she lies.
She knows this will not happen,
Until the day she dies.

'I was so lucky!
I had him all those years!'
They passed in a minute,
I shed so many tears.

Ask my Mum how is she,
She'll say, 'Thank you. Good.'
She cannot tell you how she feels.
Oh, how I wish she could.

Ask my Mum how is she,
'I'm fine, I'm well, I'm coping.'
For God's sake, Mum, just tell the truth
Just say your heart is broken.

Ask my Mum how is she,
'I'm well, I'm good. And you?'
I'll shake my head in Heaven.
It simply isn't true.

She'll love me all her life.
I loved her all of mine.
But if you ask how is she,
She'll lie and say she's fine.

Her carnival is over.
She's stepped off the carousel.
But, to save you feeling badly,
She'll say, 'Thanks, all is well.'

My Mum, she's not gone mad, yet.
But, oh so very nearly.
Don't ask my Mum how is she,
Ask how is she, really.

I am here in Heaven.
I cannot hug from here.
If she lies to you, don't listen.
Hug her, hold her near.

On the day we meet again,
We'll smile and I'll be bold.
I'll say, 'You're lucky to get in here, Mum,
With all the lies you told

tami I stopped watching Eastenders when they started the baby swap storyline. Since then I've watched only one single episode, the one where Kat and Alfie got their baby back. The only accurate thing in the whole story was the line where Kat said "There is nothing that makes you fight harder, love harder, hurt harder than losing a kid..."

I know what you mean though about feeling exposed and I'm a little alarmed to hear they are tackling baby death again so soon after getting it so spectacularly wrong last time, but I won't be watching. My advice ladies would be to just stay away from it. You don't need to put yourselves through it.

When the baby swap story happened MN managed to get a couple of lovely MNetters (Mrs DVere was one) an appointment to discuss the story line. To try and explain how cruel it was. They seemed to be listened to by the producers and they promised to conclude the story a little earlier.....Of course, they really took NO notice whatsoever. There was a thread on here about it. It was a mixture of bereaved mums, MNetters who really felt uncomfortable with it and hundreds of 'strange people'. People who kept shouting 'Its not real' ..... no matter what the bereaved Mums tried to say the same reply kept coming back. Eventually, I think, the thread was deleted or perhaps the 'strange ones' found something else to do? I think that the MN thread had been linked on something like twitter so, I believe, many people were stirring up trouble. It was awful.

I personally think the producer took that story way too far. I tried to google how often that happened in RL in this country...I failed to find a single instance.

I couldnt stop watching it though. My friend and I used to be screaming at the screen 'Give Kat her baby back for Gawds sake'.

I noticed that line in the script as well Fioled

We watch Eastenders, and just like shabbs kept on watching it... I will probably keep on watching as I would like to know how they are going to handle this storyline...

I know what you mean - I kept watching it to see how the handled the baby swap one. The only script that rang true and the only two actors who got it so 'spot on' that they took my breath away were Kat and Alfie.

Chip what a sensitive (in spiritual) son you have. I do strongly believe that the veils between time/lives is easier to see through as children. DS4 is obviously tuned in. I'm so glad that Sylvie-Rose gave you a hug xx

MrsY Ah, the guilt. I'm afraid that it's pretty normal, but terribly shitty. I still suffer from it, I guess it's our new reality. Deep down I'm sure you know that you are guilty of nothing, except losing a child who you loved so deeply. But there has to be fault doesn't there? How can it just be random? Grief comes in cycles, and in the beginning a cushing numbness seems to be common. Please just take care of yourself at the moment. It will pass, it really will. You just have to ride the waves, and at times they will be huge & it's difficult to keep your balance, then it becomes calmer & easier to master xx

Miasmummy If it raised awareness that would be goo. But it's first & foremost a 'drama', designed to 'entertain'. I'm sure they will have a list of support lines, but my fear is that the DHACs will actually think they know how it feels, as character development is not really a theme of the show - they use characters to push the story, instead of characters inspiring the stories iyswim? The only good thing would be if one baby's life is saved. But that comes from awareness of baby's movements. My problem/issue with that is - sometimes when you notice the baby has stopped, it is too late xx

Shabs I love that poem - someone wrote it on my wall months ago, and I read it from time to time; it's so bloody true. I thought the baby swap storyline was incredulous. The idea that a mother finds her beloved newborn dead, and then runs across the road and swaps him with another newborn is ridiculous. I knew what all my babies looked like, and could never have mistaken them. And when Tamsin died, I would never have wanted to swap her. I want my baby xx

Fioled I think I will avoid it. I think that it's very sensible advice xx

Morning all.

Huge hugs to MrsY. Why do we have to deal with this horrible guilt on top of everything else?

Luckily I don't watch Eastenders. Mainly because I am terrible at remembering when TV shows are actually on. I can't imagine how awful it must be feeling like people are being entertained by your pain and grief. I agree awareness should be raised, but surely there are better ways?

Not the same I know, but I am seeing news articles and papers and things about premature birth and babies everywhere and I have to devour them even though they make me cry. When it is a good story about improved chances or something I am upset because Dexter didn't have a happy outcome. When it is a sad story about long term difficulties I am upset because we would have coped somehow. I should stop looking at them but I can't seem to.

Wishing for a kind, gentle day for us all.

Mecha, sometimes what hurts is when a prem baby is described as a "fighter" as if there are other babies who are not fighters (ours) and that the fighters are to be admired.

chip that had never occured to me, I am so sorry. I think I have described Dexter as fighting, and I am sorry if I have caused any offense or upset. I really do believe all our babies and children fought for us as long and hard as they could. Just as we would do anything for them to be with us.

I'LL be avoiding eastenders then. I stopped watching over the baby swap, it was too close to Scarlett's death.

Shabs love that poem, always has me in tears.

Mrsy 8 weeks is nothing :( huge hugs

Chip Ella was prem but even though it was 34 weeks only it was a huge worry after Scarlett. It must hurt a lot. There are similar things with Scarlett but not the same.

Sorry for brief replies on my phone and holding Ella. Back to drs shortly as she's getting worse again :( already had two different anti biotics and thought she was better but nope :(

Chip (((hugs))). Both Sylvie-Rose & Dexter did fight! I do know what you mean though chip. That is what I meant about the count the kicks campaign. On another site, I was advising this woman - with reduced movement - to get checked out. Someone said that it was "stories like yours" (meaning mine) that made her go to the hospital with every fear. The way I took it was that I was an unconcerned mum to be, whose poor baby was in trouble, and I let her die. I feel that anyway.

I'd been to the hospital countless times with DS & DD1, and even with Tamsin, but the day she died, I think I knew iykwim? She didn't move much during the day (was always active in the evening), and I was so busy with DD1. I think I knew she was gone, but didn't want to believe it. I think that sometimes babies do die, and if they die overnight you won't get reduced movements. I met someone at the cemetery, whose son died between night & morning monitoring - in hospital. I really do advocate counting movements, but I do hate it when people insinuate that every baby could be saved.

The grief and my guilt are bad enough, without others agreeing with it :(

oh Tami I am sure that was not how she meant it :( I am sure she was trying (clumbsily) to say that unfortunately stories like all of ours are reminders that sad things do happen and that things are worth checking out. You were not unconcerned. I wish I could wave a wand and make ALL of us stop beating ourselves up about things.

How do you all handle posts on here and other forums that set off your "alarm bells"? I see things where people are saying oh just sleep on it, stop being so PFB everything will be fine and I want to jump up and down and shake them and scream go to hospital! But I don't want to frighten people for no good reason, a lot of the times things are fine. We are just sad proof that is not always the case.

Extra hugs too to cheese and Ella, hope all goes well at the Doctors.

Mech I am currently pregnant again after loosing my DD2 last year in June at 20 weeks pregnancy. A few days ago on the pregnancy thread I'm on one of the ladies was moaning about these horror stories and she had to listen to them at work, she said you know the ones where friends where telling about a stillborn baby and such. I was so angry... but I didn't reply... I felt like she was saying, something like that would never happen to me...
I know stories like ours are never easy to listen to, specially not when you're pregnant but that doesn't mean they don't exist or that it doesn't happen.
If only people would be a bit more aware of how often it happens in the UK...

No, Mech, you didn't upset me at all. It's when you see the stories about a baby who survived because they were a fighter that upsets me. As if our babies didn't fight or couldn't be bothered.

Sylvie-Rose died in my bed. I have seen co-sleeping threads where I have said that she died just to tell people that it can happen. And the thing is we weren't co-sleeping, I was feeding her and we both fell asleep, she never woke up. But then I also am not sure that she wouldn't have died anyway if she'd been in her cot and then I'd have been upset that she died alone. But if I had her back I'd never fall asleep with her again.

The joys of hindsight, hey?

You can't prepare yourself for a loss like this. I have a nursery full of Benedict's things, there's no way I could have got to 39+5 and not bought him anything. But people are very ignorant of how common loss in pregnancy is. 17 a day is 17 too many. Once I got to 12 weeks I relaxed, because that's what you do. But awareness of movements etc is vital, as well as other key signs. I was up at the hospital at least once a week in the last few months - had extra scans, bp checks every other day, and had been seen and monitored on the Sunday night. He was fine, even during contractions. When I went back early hours of Tuesday morning the mw asked how his movements had been. I froze, because I just couldn't remember. All I'd been focusing on was my pain - the contractions, being so tired from the disturbed nights and worry that my traumatic first labour would repeat itself. I failed him on the most basic level, by putting my own needs above his. That's is my truth, I have to live with that for the rest of my life.

Sorry, that was all rather stream of conciousness, but my feelings are all over the place - it's hard to be linear at the moment.

shabs that poem is so true. I keep trying to find another one that's written from the babies perspective, about his mummy crying herself to sleep at night, can't remember where I saw it though...

Does it start with 'My Mum is a survivor, or so I have heard it said.'

If so I can put it on here for you.

There's also another one talking about their Mum telling lies about how she is fine!!

Oh just ignore me think I have finally gone mad!!

The second choice of poem is the one that I put on here a little earlier

Afternoon ladies, hope you are all ok.
Im disgusted to read about the eastenders storyline they really will stoop to the lowest level in an attempt to "entertain".
I have had a fairly bad day today. Had the midwife round as she thinks I have developed an infection in my womb (perhaps deservedly) and that I needed to see my Dr (I have an app at 4) my Dr is really nice and has been so supportive during the whole of the I.u.g.r/ttts business, that Im going to feel so much more of a failure in front of him.
My best friend also got her c-section date through today ( we fell pregnant within a week of each other) I can't believe how very jealous (and broody even though im not iykwim) I am and I can't tell you how glad I am that she is having a girl.
Also dd had a terrible night last night, she has been very placid the last few days but last night she woke up every hour crying. We initially thought that she might have had a tummy ache but this was genuine sadness, that is really breaking my heart (im sure there are no pieces left to break yet - until "it" happens on Friday.)
I think the s.a.n.d.s "why17" campaign should be advertised like the "THINK" one or all the other campaigns that are out there as this is just as important. X

MrsY Of course you couldn't have got to your stage without being prepared. DS & DD1 were both born at 38 weeks, and (ironically) I was due to be taken in on the Thursday for a caesarean to deliver Tamsin. She died on the Tuesday, and was delivered on the Sunday - after she would have been born if she was living. I had a scan on the Thursday before she died, and she was (apparently) fine, although her fluid levels had dropped, which the consultant didn't care about. Hindsight is something we have to live with unfortunately (((hugs))) xx

Kate I don't know the Eastenders storyline is definite, I read it on AIBU last night, and there are 'spoilers' on Digital Spy. That's the thing, as much as increased awareness is vital, it should also be remembered that EE is a 'soap'. It is 'drama', not a documentary to explore these issues. If it is true, then they should have publicised it more & in advance. Otherwise it is being included for 'shock' value, and for those who've walked this path, it is too much to bear xx