''Even the smallest of footprints have the power to leave an everlasting imprint on the Earth'' Remembering with love our darling children

[Whatevertheweather]

Remembering not only what we have lost but what our darling children have given to us.

A new 'safe haven' thread. Thank you Chip for our last one which filled up in just a month. A sure sign of lots of tears, smiles and wonderful support.

All our children have taught us something whether they were born sleeping, lived just a little while, weeks, months or years. Here are mine:

Never ever take anything for granted, life can change very quickly.
Listen to yourself; your instincts will nearly always be right.
That it is possible to function seemingly normally with a broken heart.
That I have a wonderful relationship that can withstand the hardest of times.
That love and support can come from the most unexpected sources.
That I have a lot of very lovely friends, new and old.
That my family is amazing.
That no matter what it is impossible not to smile and laugh with my beautiful Katie around.
That a rainbow can provide hope in the darkest of times.
That there will be good days and bad days
That I love my children more than I ever thought possible.

For all our darling children xxx

18 months cheese??? it doesnt seem that since you came to tell us about scarlett..

sending you hugs tonight

Went out...

Came home.

Just didn't seem right to be out and it all felt very false.

Thinking of Scarlet, you and all your family tonight, cheese, God Bess you all. x

Cheese Hope you're doing OK lovely xx

MrsY I hope you're feeling a bit better today, it's so hard xx

DD1's crib has gone! I know a while back I didn't want to get rid of it, and I talked with my mum about having her store it. It was a very big crib, and (after talking with my mum) I came to the conclusion not to cling to it anymore.

The day Tamsin died, I'd actually got around to ordering a new mattress for it, having washed the cover of the old one, and procrastinating over whether a new one would be best. Tesco's email, to tell me the mattress was in, greeted me when I got home from the hospital.

If I'm honest I'm slightly relieved. After ordering a new mattress, just hours before we found out Tamsin had died, had put a taint on the thing. I know I'd never feel comfortable preparing it for a new baby (if by some chance I was blessed).

I thought I was fine, but have had a few tears now. Strangely, DH has also had a few tears over it.

feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tamisarasez&ftab=AllFeedback&sspagename=STRK:ME:UFS

This is the crib on my ebay page (DH sold it on his)

feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tamisarasez&ftab=AllFeedback&sspagename=STRK:ME:UFS

Tami, that must have been so hard to part with. But I think you're right to pass it on. I think if you start associating "stuff" with people, you end up just hoarding everything. My Mum is a terrible hoarder because she attaches sentimental value to stuff, toys and baby stuff even though the things are beyond use.

chip Thank you. I have to admit to being a terrible hoarder; some of it due to some weird superstition I have - I've always thought "if I get rid of this, it will bring 'bad luck'" didn't stop Tamsin from dying, so I'm beginning to 'let go' xx

My Mum is so bad that I have almost gone the other way and don't hang on to anything.
My Dad used to say "chip could find the <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=www.irelands-hidden-gems.com/images/ardaghchalice.jpg&imgrefurl=www.irelands-hidden-gems.com/ardagh-chalice.html&h=222&w=300&sz=23&tbnid=SabURbsDc5FUcM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=122&prev=/search%3Fq%3DArdagh%2Bchalice%2Bimage%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=Ardagh+chalice+image&usg=__WFfSLKoQlSCGjFrsAVC7QI93A0g=&docid=tagqMrSCAagrsM&sa=X&ei=nmzLT7ymKsW2hQeo5bD5Dw&ved=0CGwQ9QEwAw&dur=662" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ardagh Chalice and she'd throw it out saying it was a useless old thing"

Thanks Tami, feeling a little better today, I think it was made by the fact that the Mouse was staying with my in-laws and I missed her.

It must have been hard to part with the crib, but also a bit cathartic, perhaps? I can't see it on the link, I think it was sold too long ago?

I'm an awful hoarder, not because I think I'll use stuff or it brings me luck, but because I'm a lazy bugger! We want to sell the house soon, so going to have to pull my finger out and get the bin bags out!

Hi MrsY hello everyone. Tami I couldn't find your crib either. I'm desperate to hold onto old children's things mainly because I feel that we need to try for another one. Couldn't possibly throw anything out now, but before baby B I had it in my mind to pass on either our boys or girls things as I thought we'd never have more than three.

But I'm not here to moan this evening, just too much I think! Had a lovely day, just me and DH, the children have to to my parents' for a few days while we rediscover ourselves after all the terribleness. Went to the beach, explored a few tourist spots, a laugh and just time together really. I feel like we haven't done this since before children. Just like old times!

If it's more than 90 days old it doesn't show up on the ebay listing.

Having a really tough time tonight, can't sleep at all got discharged from the hospital yesterday and I just want my boys with me, I hate that I only spent 48 hours with them, I keep forgetting that im not pregnant anymore and my milk has come in so my breasts are absolutely killing me. I hate the thought of my babies being cold and alone. I just really really want them back. Please tell me that this will get better. Its only been 4 days (since the 31st) but it just seems to be getting worse. No one knows what to say to me and I've spent the majority of today distracting myself with things for them.

kate sending you massive (((hugs))) the early days passed in such a blur, I do remember the MW sorted some tablets for my milk though, if you/your mum or someone could speak to them for you. I can't tell you it gets easier, it just somehow becomes different as time passes.

We had an interesting evening - some good friends round for dinner & plenty of wine. After they'd gone, DH had a bit of a crying/arguing session, looking at pics of Constance. Neither of us find it particularly easy to talk about our deep feelings very much but since we lost Constance, he has tried to stay strong for me and iv been a bit worried about him tbh. I think last night was good for us really to open up a bit together. I just don't know what we can do though, this pain is just so raw.

Has anyone had grief counselling? Either together or separately?

Kate it will get better. It's so early for you and no wonder you're feeling like this, it's totally normal, but that doesn't make it any easier at all. You love your boys so much, but they are together. That doesn't take away the hurt and never will but it seems to get lighter with time.

You can get drugs to help with milk production/engorgement that they could give you at the hospital. Maybe consider phoning the ward, after all it was only yesterday that you were discharged or your community midwife for advice. Many websites will tell you some things that you can do at home. I had an injection which stopped my milk coming in.

I think that we spend a lot of time reassuring others after this happens that we're ok by our words and actions instead of them helping us. Pretending, that's what I did when all I wanted to do was withdraw from the world. Do you have any help with your little girl? What about when your partner goes back to work? I had help for about 3 weeks on and off which was invaluable in allowing me to deal with things.

Hugs xxx

Kate those early days are like swimming in treacle. You wake up and for a split second you forget what has happened then it washes over you. A friend gave me the only advice that 'worked' for me, she simpy said 'One foot in front of the other and dont forget to breathe' As time passes it changes...very slowly and sometimes without you realising it. You kind of learn to live as the 'different person' you have become. BUT the early days are exhausting and so very difficult. Many years have passed for me but there are still times when older grief bites me on the bum....when I am least expecting it.

Cross post Elly. I've had/am having grief counselling organised by the hospital and am finding it very useful. It has helped bring to the surface some uncomfortable thoughts and feelings which I feel need addressing before I can move forwards. I was offered it before I left labour ward and again by the bereavement officer. I think it's just how they do it here. My husband has been offered the same but I had to ask about that. It would be separately for us.

It may be worth contacting your bereavement office at the hospital as they may know of counselling offered there or via your GP, but that is likely to be more generic counselling. Cruse? SANDS may have some suggestions. If it has affected your relationship then Relate may help. Xx

Kate - I have been lurking since last year, but my DS was stillborn at 39 weeks 10 years ago. The best thing my older midwife told me to do was to use cabbage leaves to help with the milk problem. Get a cabbage (preferably savoy or similar), and ideally keep it in the fridge. Use a couple of leaves (or more if needed) to line each cup of your bra. Change as necessary, but you should find that within a couple of hours or so they are limp and warm. Believe me, they really help with the pain, as they somehow draw the heat out.
(((hugs))) for you, and I'm glad you have found this place - I am sure I would have really benefited from this support thread if it had been around when Jack was stillborn xx

Thanks first, I don't think it's affecting our relationship as such, we are very strong together - its just so hard isn't it. I think last night was good for us - sometimes it helps to get everything out doesn't it. I may speak to the hospital - we did have one session with the midwife counsellor at the hospital but it was before we had the results from the consultant so there were too many unknowns.

Thinking of you all, especially kate, try to be gentle on yourself - it's so normal to try to pretend that you're ok in front of others. I just spent days watching mindless crap on tv with people just 'here', I just let them tidy, cook and stuff - it helped them to feel like they were doing something practical to help, and it meant that we had food to eat etc. DH is self employed so had to go straight back to work, I was incapable of doing anything at all, although Constance was our first child so we didn't have any other dc to look after.

Kate You can ask for some medicine called Caberlogine, which are just tablets, and you take half a day for two days (I think). Where I am you don't get offered an injection, like firsttobed, only tablets, so it's worth checking with your midwife, as first suggested, to see what you get offered where you are. There are drugs to help, you don't have to suffer.

That said I didn't take my tablets (they're still in the bedroom, if you were near me you could have them), and even though I did express milk to put into Tamsin's mouth, and despite the fact that I still breastfed DD1 well into my pregnancy with Tamsin, I didn't suffer from engorgement - well not that I noticed anyway. You should still have a midwife for a few days, and can always ring the labour ward, as you are a postpartum mum, so you are entitled to ring for help whenever you want (think for about 10 days) xx

As the others have said, it will get easier, but I'm afraid that it will feel utterly horrid for a time to come yet. When you are past this time, it will be easier, and you will get through it, it's just a case of surviving lovely, and you need to do anything that makes this time bearable, anything at all even if it means sitting eating chocolates & watching rubbish on TV) xx

Sorry - MrsY first it was my ebay (which I bought it on), it was sold on DH's (as I haven't enabled Paypal, and only buy collection items), so I can't sell. It was bought before DD1 was born (so is just about 2 years ago), I thought you may be able to see it.

Ellypoo My bereavement midwife referred me for bereavement counselling, but I've never rung the number - here it is The Child Bereavement Charity (formerly trust), but I just haven't felt the time is right. I think, ultimately, the reason I've not gone, is in case they make me forget, or come to terms with Tamsin's death, and that scares me. Probably ridiculous, and I know that it's supposed to help you deal with your feelings, but still, the irrational fear has prevented it x

The very early days are the worst days you will ever have and I don't think I could describe them to someone who hadn't been through it. My aunt who had lost two of her children wrote me a lovely letter. In it she said "You don't get over it but it does get easier to bear." I think those words helped me the most and I have found it to be true.

Eight months today since our baby girl left us.

oh chip how can it possibly be 8 months already, I remember you writing on the November thread that Sylvie-Rose had died like it was yesterday... hugs x

We are counting down to Sterre's first birthday this month... :( how that year has gone quickly... last year this time I was still pregnant with her, oblivious to what was going to happen...

Hugs and kisses chip

Spent a lot of time eating chocolate and watching rubbish tv tami, still do