''Even the smallest of footprints have the power to leave an everlasting imprint on the Earth'' Remembering with love our darling children

[Whatevertheweather]

Remembering not only what we have lost but what our darling children have given to us.

A new 'safe haven' thread. Thank you Chip for our last one which filled up in just a month. A sure sign of lots of tears, smiles and wonderful support.

All our children have taught us something whether they were born sleeping, lived just a little while, weeks, months or years. Here are mine:

Never ever take anything for granted, life can change very quickly.
Listen to yourself; your instincts will nearly always be right.
That it is possible to function seemingly normally with a broken heart.
That I have a wonderful relationship that can withstand the hardest of times.
That love and support can come from the most unexpected sources.
That I have a lot of very lovely friends, new and old.
That my family is amazing.
That no matter what it is impossible not to smile and laugh with my beautiful Katie around.
That a rainbow can provide hope in the darkest of times.
That there will be good days and bad days
That I love my children more than I ever thought possible.

For all our darling children xxx

Have just watched Scoobys thanksgiving service online. What a beautiful tribute to a special lad. I was doing OK - kept catching sight of one of his older brothers who (and Scoobys mum agrees with me) could be my Matthews twin they are so alike. Every time I saw him I couldn't take my eyes off him. Then one of Scoobys Uncles sang 'If I was a butterly' - thankfully he sang it more like a ballad and it was so touching. We had that song at Matthews funeral - the vast majority of children from his school came to the service. Once they heard what song it was they sang loudly and did all the actions!! Sat here crying like a baby with my Tom looking anxiously at me and not knowing what to do.

hugs shabs little daniel and his family are in my thoughts and prayers

This is mums birthday so having a bit of a wobble and it doesnt help that hubby was admitted to hosp tonight .. nothing serious but just something we could do without

life

sorry.. life is just hard isnt it

How incredibly sad Shabs. Thinking of Estar and her family tonight

Hugs FM - your mums birthday must be a hard day. Is your DH okay now?

Having a few anxiety issues with poor Miss Katie. She is terrified that the new baby is going to die and is getting quite tearful about it. Poor kid shouldn't have to worry about things like that at her age Lots of cuddles and reassurance.

FM - am raising a glass to your Mum to wish her a Happy Birthday...I cant imagine how much you must miss her.

Whatever....when your DD says that how do you reply? Dan used to say things like that when I was having Tom. I said to him (but he was 15 years old) 'I am scared as well, we have to support each other.' We talked about it often and it really helped both of us. Think its good for children to know that parents are often scared, sad or angry. We get to show them how we deal with emotions and that can only be good xx

I'm trying to hide my anxiety from her Shabs to be honest. I dont know if thats the right way to handle it or not. She seems to have enough of her own and 5 is so little to be worrying about these things. I have just been saying that what happened to Erin was very very rare which means it hardly ever happens and that the doctors are keeping a really close watch over me and the baby. I've also told her it's okay to feel worried and I understand why she is and to always come to me or daddy for a cuddle when she feels like that.

whatever.. its another thing that non bereaved parents dont have to think about isnt it ... having other kids who have to learn about how cruel life can be at such an early age
some of Ross's friends are sheltered from deaths in the family they dont get taken to funerals etc ..
I like to think mums death was easier for ross to understand as we had had all the what happens when you die re Fraser.. of course he is heart broken but at least he "gets it"
I think you are right to give lots of re-assurance and honesty about the way you feel will help her to feel like she is normal to be worried

This doesnt read properly.. hope you get what I mean

at one point I stopped crying in front of ross and a few weeks later he said he was the only one that was upset so he thought he shouldnt be sad any more ..

Morning girls xx

Been wide awake since about 4am - finally given up...and got up!!

Hello all. Just wondering something... on Sunday, we had a work colleague and his family around, people I hadn't met before. Their three little girls were absolutely charming, vivacious and sweet. That evening over supper, the eldest asked us if we had any children - we have photos of Mia around the house, and it was probably confusing for her. I was cooking, but the mother replied "No, they don't." (I didn't see her face, but guess she felt a bit awkward.) I then felt obliged to say "Actually, we do have a daughter, but she died." The little girl accepted this statement, and we continued to have a pleasant evening. I just had to say it - I simply could not deny my beautiful, amazing Mia. She did exist, she does still matter. I did wonder afterwards if it was appropriate though, as different people obviously deal with death in different ways...

FM and Mias Not the same, but I am having a similar problem. Well, not really similar but in the same arena. My husband is a little older than I am so most of our friends are married with children. It must be horrible for them to have to understand that this tiny baby they were looking forward to meeting is not going to come home and that is just one more thing I have horrible guilt for.

One good friend however has invited us round any evening, but it has to be after the children are in bed because she hasn't told them yet. I know I am being unreasonable and they are her children to parent as she sees best (she is an amazing mother) but it has really hurt me. Like it is some dirty secret we have to keep hidden away.

MrsY struck by something you said too. It has only been 2 weeks for us, but sometimes we can function perfectly well. Do shopping or chores or see people and laugh for whole hours at a time and I wonder if this is the worst of it over? Then the Hammer of Horrible Truth hits and I am a wreck again. I guess it will be like this for a while.

Had a chat and a walk down to Dexter's grave yesterday with a friend, and it was the first time I have really spoken to anyone about him apart from DH. Was difficult and there were a lot of tears but it felt good to acknowledge that I do have a son and I always will.

Mechavivzilla - it's so difficult. We rightly or wrongly are carrying so much guilt already that it's easy to extend that to other people. But other people's expectations are theirs to deal with (or their parents') not ours. We have gone through enough already and are carrying enough without the extra burden. Easier said than done though.

I have found it difficult going up and down like you describe. Yet we seem to be able to function apparently quite normally on some levels. Suddenly it hits me. I managed to hold it together yesterday when I saw an acquaintance who is due in September, the month after I should have been in August. The thing is, she now looks pregnant and I think - I should have been 28 weeks now. Hit me like a ton of bricks but I managed to stay composed somehow. Felt very down after that, but how does one avoid it?

Went off on a tangent, but today, I am ok. Talk to my boy as usual, went down to make breakfast. Did all the usual things. Laugh, like you say and then feel guilty that I'm happy and he's gone.

The other thing I've found hard is when people ask me how many children I've got too. It sounds like we've all come across this. I want to tell the truth but risk upsetting myself and other people. They don't want to hear tales of babies dying, they don't want to see me upset in what should have been an ordinary social transaction. I don't want to deny him but sometimes this feels the easiest way. But if I'm feeling strong then I tell three but one died. He's still alive in my heart.

Mias, I think you said the right thing. It was your question to answer. Tbh, I would be very annoyed if I thought that anyone was shielding their children from Sylvie-Rose's death. If her brothers and cousins who love her can handle it, I don't see why anyone else's children shouldn't be able to. Death is a part of life and I won't pretend to anyone that Sylvie-Rose never existed.

Gosh sorry Mia's I somehow blanked your post. What an upsetting thing to hAppen, of course your Mia should be acknowledged and like chip sAys it was up to you to state simply that she was here. Happily for many they have not been in the situation where they have lost a child. No matter what, no-one knows what it is like to be you, to be any of us. Each individual's grief is unique and no-one knows your hurt that your child is denied. Perhaps she just didn't know what to say and hadn't thought about what she might say or that it might hurt you more to say yes. Hurtful but terribly unfortunate.

I'm so sorry that everyone is having such a draining time, emotionally.

FM I do hope your husband is OK, you're right - you could do without the extra stress. Ross sounds like a little treasure x

Whatever poor little Katie, it must be so hard :( What an empathetic little girl though xx

Miasmummy Of course you should have mentioned Mia - not inappropriate at all. She is still your little girl, always will be. I'm guessing the mother didn't know what to say, but of course you should have corrected her - chip's post put it very eloquently xx

Mechavivzilla It's hard around friends, but at this stage you need to concentrate on you. That you're able to function at all, after such a short time, is pretty amazing xx (ps I sent you a message via SANDS) xx

Hi to everyone else xx

Waves to all. Pcs should be up and running later so I'll do a catch up. Can't do that properly on my phone. 18 months since Scarlett died on Saturday coming, can't believe where the time has gone...
Be back later!

Chip I totally agree with you on that. One thing that bothered me a lot recently is a funeral that children weren't welcome at, it was a family member that died and we couldn't attend (along with others) because of this. I don't think it's an odd thing to have children at funerals, in fact, I think it's healthy and normal.

I really understand that the close relatives didn't want children there and we respected that but to voice their opinion as they don't think it's right for children to be at funerals, well, that bothered me. My dd1 attended SCarlett's funeral and she's 10 now so younger then and I think it helped her to deal with Scarlett's death. She wanted to be there. It feels like a judgement on me for letting her be there. It's probably the last thing they're thinking of right now but it does feel that way.

firsttobed hello. I think you can't avoid that, it's helpful in a way. I look back now and have no idea how I got through those early days. You do just carry on and function but looking back, I was a lot worse than I realised at the time. I'm 18 months on now, almost, and I cannot believe it. The first few months were a haze. I couldn't sleep for longer than 3 hours at a time, could barely eat and just cried, but I thought I was doing ok...I wasn't. Things will get easier, I never believed that when I read the other ladies here saying so, but they were right. I couldn't imagine ever feeling any better and wondered how it could be possible, but they were right xx

Mechavivzilla Sorry to see you here but welcome. I really feel for you, that's awful of your friend, really is. There is nothing wrong about telling children. I had 3 dcs to cope with as well as us, they managed. They're now 5, 8 and 10 and did adjust, my eldest found it the hardest and cried a lot even months later and still does at times. It gets less over time.

Miasmummy I think that was a perfect thing for you to say, children understand and accept things a lot easier than adults I find. I would have felt the need to acknowledge too.

fm strange the you mentioned the funeral thing too! Had the same situation myself just last week. I really think it's a good thing to have children at funerals. They get to understand more about death that way and to process things in the heads.

whatever my dcs worried about the baby when I was pregnant with Ella, even my now 5 year old ds2, he was just 5 in Jan. When I got near to the end with Ella he said to me that it's so close now and that we don't want to lose another baby :( It wasn't for months that the dcs came and asked if it was their fault SCarlett died because they poked her too much. That thought hadn't even crossed my mind, that they might blame themselves. I reassured them and explained everything and I think it helped them. Dd1 was especially worried throughout my pregnancy and got very upset at times, she's very mature for her age and was scared we would lose Ella too. We talked a lot and went through our fears. I admitted I was scared but also said I was being taken very good care of and that if anything started to go wrong then they'd take me in and get the baby out. That helped too xx

Shabs that's terribly sad news about Estar's son, I'm so sorry for her and her family. Poor woman xx

My story for the new ladies, briefly as I don't have long as Ella is grizzling now. Our daughter Scarlett was stillborn at 37 weeks, we found out on Decemeber 2nd 2010 and I gave birth to her on 6th Dec. I was induced. She was breech and they couldn't turn her, it nearly ended up in a section as her foot got stuck but after a few attempts they managed to pull it down.

My pregnancy with her was complicated and at first we were told it was a cord accident due to her unstable lie which I was being admitted for but the night before she died we were driving on the motorway to hospital when the car broke down. I remember feeling her kick very vivedly in the car while we sat waiting for the breakdown services. I asked dh to feel to and he also felt her. It was very strange as the car was literally a couple of days old.

We got in the next day but I had reduced movements and hadn't felt anything in the morning so was worried. They put me on a monitor but couldn't get a heartbeat and then came the 10 mins of every midwife trying with a doppler. Nothing. They took us upstairs right away for a scan. I remember not believing that anything could be wrong and that maybe she was hiding but deep down I knew, I just couldn't accept it.

The scan showed no heartbeat. It felt like a horrible dream. We cried and I had to leave. I tried to wait until going into labour naturally but I didn't and had to be induced.

Cutting a long story short as I don't have long now she was born and we took some photos and spent time with her but I couldn't hold her. That is such a big regret of mine. I just couldn't do it. We had her blessed and named her and said our goodbyes. A PM showed inconclusive for cause of death but mentioned that gestational diabetes couldn't be ruled out due to her size and enlarged organs.

We tried for another baby right away, it was the only thing keeping me going even though I have other children I couldn't focus. It took 6 long months to conceive, I spent those months so sad and upset, barely functioning.

I changed hospitals and had a bad pregnancy but with very good care. I was diagnosed with GD at 13 weeks and started on insulin injections. My new consultant said it was almost certain I'd had it with Scarlett too. Things started to go wrong at about 30 weeks so I had steroid injections and when it got worse at 33 weeks they decided enough was enough and induced me. Ella was born at 34 weeks. She spent 2 weeks in scbu which was scary but is home now and 16 weeks old.

Missed a few bits out there but thought that was long enough! Phew sorry for the epic post. Need to feed Ella now bbl xx

Welcome home Everlong hope you had a good time. I was one of the people who said there was something odd - and there is......I dont know what it is but if I did I would tell you. I think a poster from old made me feel most insecure.

And, yes, of course you are right - this thread is for all bereaved mums to support each other x

Welcome back Everlong did you have a lovely time? I have to agree with you - I didn't notice anything was 'wrong' until I saw posts about things being 'odd'. Now I want to know what is odd! (but then I'm naturally curious )

I hadn't noticed anything except that some of the older ladies stopped posting which was a shame. I've always thought a big part of this thread is providing hope to newly bereaved mothers that, although life will never be the same again, it won't always be as painful as the early days. That's what I took from Everlong Shabs FM TW et al when I first came along.

everlong Hope you had a fab time :) xx

cheese so much of what you wrote has rung a chord with me; I can't forget the horrible, horrible time, waiting for the scan - then the time the Dr took doing it (it seemed like an age, it was a portable scanner as the unit with the 'proper' scanners was shut at night) - the minute he asked me to go into another room I knew, but like you I didn't want to xx

Whatever How are you doing? xx

DD1 has slightly shocked me. I asked her where Tamsin was (was looking at photos) and she looked up at the ceiling. She has repeatedly done this, whenever asked. I am bemused; I assumed she would say "flower", as that is what she associates with visiting her. If you ask where the moon is, she points outside, but she insists that Tamsin is up in the ceiling

If I knew how to explain what I mean I would do. I reported my fears to MNHQ and they said they couldn't see anything wrong.....so maybe I am just slightly barking mad? Who knows.

As for how new members would feel reading what I wrote....I thought it was all about being honest - I will watch what I say in future and I apologise to anybody that I have upset.

Sorry if I upset anyone - just me thinking out loud....wont happen again xx