''Even the smallest of footprints have the power to leave an everlasting imprint on the Earth'' Remembering with love our darling children

[Whatevertheweather]

Remembering not only what we have lost but what our darling children have given to us.

A new 'safe haven' thread. Thank you Chip for our last one which filled up in just a month. A sure sign of lots of tears, smiles and wonderful support.

All our children have taught us something whether they were born sleeping, lived just a little while, weeks, months or years. Here are mine:

Never ever take anything for granted, life can change very quickly.
Listen to yourself; your instincts will nearly always be right.
That it is possible to function seemingly normally with a broken heart.
That I have a wonderful relationship that can withstand the hardest of times.
That love and support can come from the most unexpected sources.
That I have a lot of very lovely friends, new and old.
That my family is amazing.
That no matter what it is impossible not to smile and laugh with my beautiful Katie around.
That a rainbow can provide hope in the darkest of times.
That there will be good days and bad days
That I love my children more than I ever thought possible.

For all our darling children xxx

Hi - new to this thread, but 'know' some of you from the rainbow thread.
Firstly, I just want to say how sorry i am that we are here at all, but it is 'nice' to have somewhere to come to talk to other people who know pretty much exactly what i'm going through.
My beautiful baby girl Constance (Nancy) was born at 37 weeks by EMCS after I had suffered reduced movements, on 29th Dec 2011. She was very tiny (just under 5lbs), and had suffered from oxygen starvation which meant that her brain was damaged, and that led to all of her little organs failing. They transferred her to another hospital which had a neo-natal intensive care unit, in Leeds - the first time I saw her was when she was 7 hours old and in the incubator thing being transferred up to LGI. I'd had a CS under general anaesthetic, so they wouldn't transfer me until the following day - she was over 24hr old when I finally got to see her properly, and she was hooked up to loads of machines and things. Sadly, her condition didn't improve overnight, and we had to make the decision to take her off the ventilator and machines the following day. We were able to bath her & dress her before she passed away in our arms, she was just 2 days old. My Mum drove us home a couple of hours later - i couldn't stay in hospital any longer, they had put me on the post-natal ward so all I could hear the night we were in that hospital was other babies crying, and there was no way I could cope with that. As we drove back home, it was New Years Eve, and we just saw fireworks all the way down the motorway.
The next few weeks were a bit of a blur - we had to return to Leeds (to the ward that she had been on) to collect the death certificate, and we had to register her birth & death, and then arranged her funeral.

I am now back at work full time, and people ask me how I am - what can I say? I'm juts muddling through, trying to find a new sense of normal. I'm just finding it so hard - in many ways it's getting harder, not easier as time goes on.

Sorry for the massive essay!

Welcome, Elly and my goodness, what a terrible time you had. I am so sorry you find yourself here on our thread but you are very welcome. I don't know how I would have coped without these wonderful ladies since my Sylvie-Rose died.

We had a play-centre party for ds4's birthday today . I know some if the parents but not all of them. I was asked the usual questions about how many children we have. I explained about Sylvie-Rose as usual. One of the dads just said "God, four boys!" in that annoying way people do but I was upset that he acted as if I hadn't mentioned Sylvie-Rose.

Later, I was talking to one of the Mums who was talking about her BIL whom she can't stand as he treats women so badly. She then went on to say that it's because there were only four boys in her dh's family and that they needed a sister to make them treat women better! She knows I have four boys and that we lost their sister!

Is it just me or have I encountered more than the average number of crass comments today?

Oh god chip, I can't believe just how insensitive people can be sometimes - i have to try to convince myself that they can't help it & don't realise what they are saying, otherwise I just couldn't cope! SIL(to be) asked if I was feeling better as I am back at work - i had to explain that this isn't something that you just get over, and that you just have to learn to live with the absolute constant agony that you now have in your life.

I'm so sorry about your daughter, Sylvie-Rose; such a beautiful name - it must be so hard, trying to deal with your grief but also try to stay strong for your DS's.

It's so important to have people you can speak to who understand - I have met a really lovely friend who lost her baby boy last year when he was 9 days overdue, so it has been good to have someone close who I can talk to. I meet up with my Mum friends from ante-natal classes and it is so hard to see their babies who are around the same age as Nancy would be, and seeing them reach milestones that she won't is so hard. One of them lost twins at 22 weeks a few years ago, and my friend who lost her son last year has just had a rainbow baby boy and she joins us when we meet up now too, so it's nice, but really hard at the same time.

Sorry for the really long post again :)

And as if it wasn't bad enough, I have just come home in tears from my ILs. SIL and BIL's little dd is the same age Sylvie-Rose ought to be and MIL and my other SIL were joking about them having more babies. MIL joked that 5 was too many and my other SIL said the mire you had the more awkward holidays get. They acted like they had forgotten all about our little girl who was our 5th. Ffs, I wouldn't be bothered about holidays if I could have her back! DHAC's everywhere I looked today.

Oh chip and elly, what are these people like? I am so and for you - and for tami too. Maybe you should just say exactly what you think and shock them into being more considerate. I know I should be charitable and think, well, they don't really know what they are saying - but then the next thought is, well, it's about time they knew!

People just don't seem to have any idea of what they're saying, do they? Or they do, but then their mouths run away with them...

Elly, so sorry to hear about your darling Constance - I love her name, btw, so pretty. It must be so hard to be back and work. It's only been a month since we lost our boy, and people at work seem to either burst into tears when they see me, walk on eggshells or bluster 'trying to be normal'. I know it's hard to know what to say, but it just draws attention to it.

My comment of the day comes from a lady at church, who said how well I was looking at what nice earrings I was wearing. They matched my cardi, and she looked me up and down and said it was nice to see me back to my old self, "all better now". Erm, no, not all better now. I burried my son less than two weeks ago. It hurts like hell. Then she asked how my husband was, because "so often, the men get overlooked with these pregnancy-things and miscarriages and so on". I was so taken aback I didn't think to WTAF her.

Really dreading my follow up appointment with the ob consultant and mw on Wednesday. Almost don't want to go...

Mias, I would love to say exactly what I think but would probably then be known as poor deranged chip who used to be normal until she lost her daughter!

MrsY, I actually preferred the people who burst into tears, at least you knew they were empathetic! The ones who want you to be "normal", I think are lacking something within themselves and are trying to push our pain outward away from themselves.

I am finding that it's true what people here have said, that you get sympathy early on and then people forget. And they seem to think we should forget too. The thing is, how can you forget? I look at ds1 now, who is 15 and I remember the day he was born, his face, his cry, how tiny he was, the green babygros because we didn't know if he was a boy or a girl before he was born. I know most mothers are the same. So how could I forget my little girl only 7 months after we lost her?

By the way, I have started a prayer thread in Philosophy for expatinscotland's little girl, Ailidh, who is very ill with leukaemia but who has found a bone marrow donor so now has a good chance of recovery. Can any of us who pray, ask our own angels to have a word with the boss up there and ask that expat never has to join us here. Thead is here

morning all xx
All very quiet.

morning chip
Just checking in while taking a mini break at work. Hope everyone is well.x

Yes, very quiet.

I'm locked in the house today - so will be on mn more than usual! I'm gutted, I was going to go and visit Benedict today. :( Hope I can find enough to keep the Mouse occupied until my mum comes round and can let us out!

Hi all, yes, super-quiet here for the past few days. My broadband is playing up, so very hard to concentrate on writing anything, as i don't know whether it will make it through the ether or not...

Some lovely words I'd like to share from my cousin. She was told that "Everyone, no matter who they are, will have golden moments in our lives." Sometimes hard to believe, sitting where we are... but as she said, my flame-headed Mia only had golden moments. She would be 20 months old today, a landmark we would probably not even notice if she were here.

What a lovely thing your cousin said, Mias.

MrsY, how did you get locked in? That sounds awful!

That's a lovely thought, MiasMummy.

Well, it's not as dramatic as that, chip. My husband left the house before we were up this morning (the Mouse woke at 9!) and so he locked the door behind him. Unortunately, I can't find my keys. I can get out, so no worries if there's a fire or something, but wouldn't be able to get in again. On a nice day, I'd head off somewhere and not head home until my mum was due, but when the weather is miserable, I'd rather stay warm and dry!

Having an angry day today. I keep seeing poems and things that people post to try and give comfort, but they just make me feel worse. It's just not fair. I want my boy back.

MrsY, people try to help but sometimes the things they say don't help and sometimes the poems jar. In those early days, the only proletariat who said anything remotely helpful were people who had lost a child themselves.

Yes, the worst things I was told were "Oh, she's in a better place" or "These things happen for a reason." Even now, those stupid phrases make me furious. What better place can a child be except with their loving parents? And there is simply no reason. All I can say is - I don't understand, I will never understand. How can we?

It makes me so angry when people say things like that MiasMummy - how on earth could our Angels be in a better place than here, and what possible reason could be behind this heartbreaking tragedies. I just can't cope when people say things like that at all - they are such stupid phrases that make absolutely no sense at all.

That's just how I feel, there is no reason. And there is no better place for my son to be than in my arms.

It helps to know you all feel the same - I just wish none of us had to know this pain.

Well I agree that it's wrong to say that these things happen for a reason because that's complete and utter rubbish. But I'm sorry it breaks my heart that I just can't agree that there's no better place for my son than with me.

I know that most of you are in very different positions to me and I acknowledge that I joined you knowing that. If my child had lived he would have suffered every day of his life and I could not have put him through that. However much it hurts me - and believe me I'm crying as I write this, not least because it's a month today since he died - I know that he is not suffering now and that the decision at we made for him, difficult as it was, was the right one.

I hope that this doesn't offend anyone; that was not my intention. X

oh first, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset or hurt you any more than you are already hurting with my words.

First, don't worry about offending us, or having a different opinion, we all need to get through this horrible experience as best we can. And that's going to be in different ways for each of us.

In a way, I'm jealous that you are able to accept that (please don't take that the wrong way, it must have been an awful decision and so hard to deal with) but I wish I had the reassaurance that Benedict was better off where he is.

The decision you made was a true example of what being a parent means - putting your child first and foremost. You did something that you knew would mean unimaginable grief for you and your partner, because it was the best thing for your son. I have the guilt of knowing that because of my selfishness, and putting my own needs of catching up with sleep and the impatience of wanting the pregnancy over with, I wasn't paying attention to my son's movements. I did exactly the opposite of you.

Mia's I know but thank you. And what you write is right for you. I just wanted to tell what I was feeling. I'm at the very start of this journey now and still feeling very raw. Getting through the day but scratch the surface and there's hell bubbling underneath. Gutted that I was making cakes with my youngest and didn't time check when he was born this afternoon.

It's not easy at all. I spent the afternoon sorting out returning to work and thought I was in an ok place but a couple of things have happened today and I've blubbed like I've not done since he was here. Today has caught me unawares and I'm sorry.

I've still got time to send him love before he time he died. I feel like a fraud among all you lovely ladies who had no choice in what happened to your children.

MrsY I'm sorry I posted before I saw yours. Thank you for your words. I am jealous of you too, that you didn't have a choice. I didn't feel able to put it in my last post. And I don't think that you did have a choice despite your last two sentences. I've read your thread although I haven't commented and feel I know your story. I'm so very sorry that you feel that way but maybe nothing would have changed the outcome.

We are all dealing with terrible emotions, feelings of what if and I'm being selfish if I think that it's just me who feels that way.

Please don't apologise. We're all going through something that no-one should have to, and for whatever reason, in whatever circumstances it happened, it's hell on earth. None of our pain is any purer or better than the others.

I totally agree MrsY.

I also wish that I'd noticed the reduced movements sooner - I was just so busy because it was Christmas, that I didn't pay enough attention. If I had, maybe they would have realised that Constance was struggling and they might have delivered her before so much damage was caused. Maybe if I hadn't put so much weight on, the MW would have realised that she was so small and they would have picked up on the bloodclots in the placenta that caused all the problems before (I measured spot on every appointment until the very end).

There are too many if's, but's and maybe's - and we could all torture ourselves for the rest of our lives agonising over what might have been different if only ... We've all got too much of that to come to terms with without punishing ourselves further.