Beyond the distant star, I wish upon tonight to see you smile, If only for a while, to know you're there.

[shabbapinkfrog]

Our thread to honour and remember our precious children who sadly are not 'physically' here xxxxx

Thanks for the thoughts and love. I shall pass them onto my parents and brother when i see them shortly. We went to the scene and got there just before the time of his death had a toast and raised JD and coke to him. We tried let of a sky latern with messages on it, it went really wrong wouldnt fill up properly and just burnt. but the sentiments on it went up to him in the smoke still. I had a good cry when i got home. My best friend has an interview at work today for a senior position and i've told her I'm sure Matty will help here.

Tangle - thank you so much for taking the time to post that for me. I am in two minds whether or not to get my notes. I'm just not sure I want to know what happened. I feel so guilty, like I didn't look after them properly.

But then again maybe knowing what happened will remove some of the guilt.

Shelly - I know I don't 'know' you and only post once in a while on here but I just wanted to say I hope today is a day filled with happy thoughts of your DB.

Hello lavandes. Sorry you lost Richard.

Welcome home lavandes.

Thinking of you and yours today Shelly. Glad the messages got to Matt, even if not in quite the way intended.

Mouse - Oh the guilt :(. I got hold of my notes as I felt I needed to have a record of what had happened. In a way it has helped and made things more real, I do have something to refer to if I wonder why something was done - and its made it clearer just how sick I was as well. But I still feel incredibly guilty at such a basic level - to me it feels as though as a mother I had a job to do that no one else could really help with, and that was to keep grow my baby and get them into this world safely. And I failed.

Tangle - that's just it. I failed too.

When we lost the triplets I was so upset that they had all died. Not one of them survived.

When DS was born - aka Nemo - last year and we discovered he had SN, I felt like I'd failed again.

I'm glad I'm not alone.

None of us has failed....none of us. I used to think that I had failed my sons - really thought it was all my fault, and I felt like that until recently.

BUT - which one of us wouldn't give our own lives to have our children back? This feeling is, very sadly, another one of those 'normal' bereavement feelings.

Take care everybody xx

Thank you shabba xx

Shab you talk such sense. Guilt is something I also carry around, although rationally I know there is nothing I could've done, I suppose its part of being a Mummy - the ultimate desire to protect.

Have just come from another councelling session and now I'm shattered. Today we discussed how love is different but the same for each child you have. One of my fears of having another baby, especially if it was a girl, is my comparing her to Belle, living Belle through her. I'm not sure I'm making sense. I think the councellor tried to say that I would love my next child differently to Belle, just as I would've done if she had lived. But they will be loved the same amount and I will develop new hopes and dreams for a new child, not just recycle Belle's dreams, even though I might very well do some of the things I wanted to do with Belle, there will be news things just for that child too.

Sorry rambling.

Caz - not rambling. That makes perfect sense to me.

Of course if you had a girl there are going to things that you will do with her that you would have done with Belle. Like shopping together, going for lunch, falling out once her hormones kick in, vetting her boyfriends etc.

But as your counsellor said, you will love your next child differntly and as your child grows and develops, your love for that child will grow and develop more than you every imagined too.

That doesn't mean that you will love Belle any less. I hope I have made sense to you.

Caz your counsellor is right, Im sat her nodding and agreeing with every word.

All my sons have been different in personality but almost identical physically I have loved them all differently but the same xxx

DS4 - Tom (turned 13 at the end of July) wants to visit his holiday friends from this year. Brother and sister - brother is aged 9 and sister is almost 15 (think thats where the attraction comes in!!) She is so beautiful and looks about 18 - tall, blonde and very mature!!

They live in Halifax which is about 45 minutes on the train from our house. He wants to go there and back by himself - he has never been on a bus by himself never mind a train. I want to let him do it but I cant. I KNOW he will go to near the edge of the platform, I KNOW someone will beat him up, I KNOW the train will crash, I KNOW I have to stop thinking like this.

Even though we cant afford it Im going to do the return journey on the Saturday and, well after that we will see if I let him come back by himself or not on the Sunday.

Im so afraid!! Just been talking about it with my friends on the multiples thread but would like your opinions as well.

shabs ,its not easy, i did this when i was young ended up at skipton ,instead of shipley,me and a old friend,she died three years ago,drank herself to death,left five kids, i didnt keep in touch.her dd brings her kids up,bless her.
i got back safe and sound, nowadays we have mobile phones,its safer, or how about going to halifax to eureka for day,and meeting up with tom later.
imts not easy im scared of everything nowadays,check its not cheaper to prepay first.

shabs I know I am old fashioned but it sounds to me that Tom is too young to make the journey on his own, especially as you are so worried. I have read the other thread. You do so much for your family, it should work both ways can't you all sit down and talk about it. This won't be the only time that you will need some help.

I hope I haven't upset you but this is my opinion, maybe not what you want to hear. Try to stay stong and make the decision that you think is right. xx

Thanks girls. Lavendes I have no idea why I am so stressed about it. My eldest has dug his heels in and wont help out - sometimes he is as stubborn as me LOL. Im going on the train and coming home the same day and then I will make a decision about the travelling on Sunday. It will be good for him to do something like this on his own but I need to have a practice run with him first. Thanks everybody for your opinions xxx

((Hugs)) Shab - I can only imagine how it must be so difficult to let Tom do things on his own. I think a practice run is a great idea. 13 is such a difficult age, I remember wanting so much independence, but looking back I was so young. Its not that grown up at all really is it. I'm sure whatever decision you make it will be the best for Tom.

I've been really touched by a friend tonight. She sent me a message on FB asking if I wanted to start organising Belle's 1st birthday party yet (I'm hoping to do a party with a fete type thing to raise money and awareness of SANDS), and that she had loads of ideas and wants to be involved if that is ok with me (which of course it is). I love that she has been thinking about my baby's birthday already. :)

Thinking of you all today Shelley xxx A candle has been lit here.

Lovely to see you back Lavandes I can't believe it is six months already. Like Shabs said, sometimes it can feel like yesterday then at other times it's so surreal it's almost like it never happened.

Your friend sounds lovely Caz Isn't it lovely when others remember our darling children?

When I was pg with ds2, one of the biggest reasons we found out the sex at the 20 week scan was to prepare ourselves if it was another boy. As you know, it was another boy and actually it was ok that it was another boy. We straight away realised that this was another son, not a replacement C.

Oh, and Shabs. I think a practice run is a good idea. After you've done it you can then make a decision about Tom going on his own.

Go with your instincts, you will know what is right.

I can't believe it has been 6 months. Sometimes It still seems like yesterday. I don't think I have really got over the shock yet. Just getting through each day is an achievement.

caz there is only 22 months between my sons and they are like chalk and cheese both in looks and personality. Each child brings their own love with them and you have enough love for lots of babies. That will never diminish the love you have for Belle.

Thanks everyone for the welcome back,

Thank you all for the reassurance. I suppose I just wouldn't want to let my next baby down by trying to live Belle through them. Not that I would do that intentionally, but I wouldn't want them to think that. I know my baby wouldn't be Belle and I know I would love them as much as I love Belle, but because we're going to ttc soon, I would never want them to think one day they were Belle's replacement if there is a small age gap. I hope all my future children know they are loved as much as I love their sister and special in their own unique way.

And yes lavandes it is lovely to have you home.

Shabs, i can imagine how hard it must be for you! I have had a rollercoaster week. They have finally been more or less able to tell me why Wilf is deaf. It is something called Waardenburgs Syndrome Type 2. 1 in 40,000 people have it and Wilf is in the 10% that have no previous family history. So that makes it very rare. Also there is a 50/50 chance of any children being born deaf! On a nicer note i met a guy tonight who i knew when i was little. He was very drunk and thought i was one of my sisters! He got a shock when he realised it was me! His ex in laws looked after me when i was little and his ex f inlaw saved my life when i was seven pulling me out of the moat at my dads farm. His ex f in law is dead but his ex m in law who i adored is alive and we are hoping to organise a reunion!!

Evening all.

Just wanted to share that we had the funeral and burial for Bobbie today. Lots of tears obviously but we managed to read the poems and prayers that we wanted to. I carried the little casket down to the grave, it was a beautiful white and silver one with a little silver plaque on it. We filled the hole in afterwards which was strangely soothing, I think as a way of knowing that Bobbie is safely tucked in now. Left a white rose on the grave.

Afterwards we went for a walk through the deer park to talk about it all and remember our little one.

I hope it's ok to share one of the poems we read at the service, especially with those of you who have lost babies in pregnancy or around birth. It's helped me a lot to have someone else put some of the grief into such beautiful words.

The world may never notice
If a Snowdrop doesn't bloom,
Or even pause to wonder
If the petals fall too soon.
But every life that ever forms,
Or ever comes to be,
Touches the world in some small way
For all eternity.

The little one we long for
Was swiftly here and gone.
But the love that was then planted
Is a light that still shines on.
And though our arms are empty,
Our hearts know what to do.
Every beating of our hearts
Says that we love you xx

Oh sweetheart, this may sound very strange, but it sounds as though you said the perfect goodbye to your precious baby. Believe me, as the years pass you will be so relieved that you made this a special day. The word special sounds a very odd one but I think it sounds a very special and loving day xxxxx

Split I was just thinking what Shabs has said. It does sound as if it was just perfect for Bobbie and I love the poem. It also sounds as if you were incredibly brave. I think your love would've shined through today. 4 months down the line I do think on Belle's funeral as a special day and that we shared our love for her with everyone. I hope you can think of Bobbies as a special day too.

Thank you both, it was special and actually very comforting. A day and a baby that we will always carry with us.

Morning girls xx

Spilt - Bobbie's service sounds very special, and, as Shabs says, you will hold this day in your hearts for the future x