Are all children chronically disobedient...

[jennymac]

or just mine?! They are 2.5 and 3.10 and generally completely ignore me when I tell them to stop doing something. DD (oldest child) is worse - it is generally over something stupid, like I will tell her off for putting a coin in her mouth, and she will do it again straight away. It drives me mad! I would be quite strict and always follow through i.e. I never just ignore it when she is disobedient (though maybe I should!)but I take it this behaviour is normal?

It's not really normal behaviour but it does take time for the little darlings to master. Have you not tried the 'stare'? The 'mess with me at your own peril' stare?

follow with a "how dare you disobey me, you should be ashamed"

I'd suggest you try varying the level of the telling off. If every misdemeanour, minor or major, is met with the same level of response then they end up zoning it out and thinking that's just the way mummy talks... But if you can operate a sliding scale you can keep them on their toes better. Ignore the small stuff best you can. Time-outs for the intermediate stuff like backchatting or squabbling. And develop your 'scary mummy' for anything serious/dangerous/antisocial. Use the latter very sparingly and they'll soon develop a degree of warines.

Rewarding good behaviour is the other plank of the strategy. With two children, praising one can make the other a little jealous and they'll sometimes try to outdo each other at being good... worth a try.

Oh yes... for coins in mouth, remove coin and place out of reach.

To be honest I haven't really mastered the scary stare or voice. No matter how hard I try to sound very stern and serious, I can never really pull it off. My DSIL has it down to perfection and it even scares me a bit! Sometimes, I honestly think dd can't help herself - it's as if once you tell her not to do something, the temptation to do it again overwhelms her! It is a bit like the Derren Brown experiment where he put the women in a room and told her if she pushed a button, a cat in another room would be killed or shocked or something and under NO circumstances was she to push the button. Then he left her in a room for 5 mins and she literally couldn't stop herself from pushing the button!

You have to work on 'stern and serious'... really. You have to be able to dig deep and pull that ferocious inner you out of the method acting bag because, when you do, it'll be so out of character and so unnerving for your children that they'll stop what they're doing. Which is the effect you're missing at the moment.

I bet they don't play up for your DSIL....

I used to find counting down very effective at that age

They should be doing what you tell them at this age. You have to reflect on your own authority.

If you expect them to obey you then they will be chronically disobedient

Always good fun to tell them to do what you don't want them to do and watch their heads explode with confusion as they fight the urge to defy you and climb up the curtains.

Agree with advice here - this is the age you can crack the obedience thing. If you don't you will end up with 10 year olds who ignore you, which, let's face it, no-one likes.

Also agree with the different tactics for different levels of disobedience. I'm quite physical with my dcs - if I can, I save my breath and physically move them away from something/someone, or take away whatever they are abusing/destroying/fighting over.

I think it's sort of normal for them to test and disobey at your dcs' age, but later on you can really pick out the kids who run the show at home, and believe me, they are not pleasant to have over to play. Although I have noticed that some of my dcs' friends who give their own mums a really hard time seem to be perfect for me...hmmm....

Somebody let me know when a magic cure for disobedience is found, I have 3 children aged 21, 14 and 7 and none of them ever do anything i ask them the first time or without and argument. I am very consistent, use a low vioce and have had training through my job on how to manage behaviour effectively, at work the kids are brilliant but home is a different matter. Hey ho, I don't suppose anything is going to change now, is it??

I have the same issue, Jennymac; but I am beginning to think that I pick too many battles, and should let a few more just slide, or try to avoid them.

For example, a lot of my stress revolves around DD not doing things when I want her to do them, as she is pursuing another interest...am trying to build more time in to must-do activities(admittedly easier said than done sometimes)so that my telling off comes across as serious and seldom.

Will let you know if it works

Oh honestly, the age where you crack obedience. I hate the terms disobedience and obey. They aren't dogs, fgs.

Some kids are more wilfully defiant than others, and most certainly should be at your DC's age otherwise there would be something very different about them.

Sounds to me like you're doing a good job, take some advice from here if you feel you need to, maybe shift your mindset and accept that that is how kids are. I'm not saying you shouldn't say anything, you absolutely should, but it will be easier for you to stay calm and not bothered by it if you accept its normal behaviour for their age.

My elder DS drove me mad with his defiant behaviour around the age of 3-4, now DD is the same age I can see the pattern and it doesn't wind me up as much. She gets less chances though. I would explain everything many times to DS, DD gets an explanation, a warning and then a consequence if I'm feeling generous.

The cat, the most recent arrival, just gets booted out. No warnings. No patience left.

My DS is 10 and obeys all of the time. I do think this is strange he will not break a rule at home or school even if I want him to.
Everyone comments on how well behaved he is.
I don't know if it is something I have done or just the way he is wired.

When he was a baby I did not say no very often. I had a friend who would shout at her DS not to go in the cupboard or touch the ornaments. I just moved the breakables and put child locks on the cupboard. If he went to do something I didn't want him to do I would just distract him.

Now he is older I just ask him nicely to do something and he does it. When my DH barks orders at him he refuses to do what he asks
and it becomes a battle of wills. IMO the best thing you can do is treat your DCs with the same respect you would give another adult.

I find my scary voice works much better on other children. DD just ignores me.

"What do you think you are doing?" in a rather booming voice, taking them slightly by surprise works a treat with my nieces, but no effect whatsoever on my own DD. I find myself explaining a lot to her. Eg; If you do this, this may happen, and we don't want that/mummy will be sad/daddy will be very cross etc. Sometimes it works.

At the moment our biggest problem is when DD gets tired, she looks for trouble. Seriously. She is way smarter than i am and i struggle to keep up with the evil genius little darling. She is only 2.8 too [despair]

The stern and serious only works if they think something will happen IMO. At this age, they are small and experimenting and perhaps don't 'get' the implications of a shout/loud voice. Kids aren't born programmed knowing what they should or shouldn't do!

Consequences is whatcha need - 'if you do x' y will happen'. You don't need to be cross about it. Just actually DO IT. So keep it small- 'if you carry on playing with your straw I will take it away.' Also don't forget to tell them what you WANT them to do 'drink your juice'.

When they know you mean what you say (and they are a bit older) and know what they are doing is 'naughty' -that's when all you need is the stare!

(agree with others who say don't think of them as 'bad' and treat them with respect too)

hmm, mine sounds just like yours!

i found the book 'how to talk so kids will listen..' helpful. it depends what approach you want really, the 'you must obey me' one like many on this thread obviously do with perfect results, or the unconditional parenting/emotionally intelligent kind of one which i do with mixed results (but the stern approach is even worse for us - everyone shouting and in tears!)

IMHO i think this behaviour is normal, but it is challenging!

The scary voice thing is fair enough, but dd (3.11) just uses it back at us - and in the right context. If (after much provocation) I shout at her I get 'How DARE you speak to me like that.' 'That is just RUDE mummy.' 'I will NOT be spoken to like that.' All gems once spoken from my lips, now being uttered to me, from her. Hmm.

Agree with the varying the reaction to their behaviour. Dh and I have major 'discussions' about this, as he tells off/has consequences for EVERYTHING (sitting properly at the table; chewing nicely etc etc) and I think she zones it out - and it reduces the time spent with her sometimes to a litany of complaints from him. His view is if we let the small stuff slide then its the road to ruin and loss of any control at all....

"Disobeying."

Oh gosh, absolutely notyummy. Thing is, if all she hears is a moan no matter what she does, there is no incentive to try. He is already in control because he is the parent - you don't need to micromanage.

Most children model their behaviour on that of the significant adults around them; if the adults around them are basically calm and patient, with civilised manners, their children will most probably follow their example with only gentle prodding.

I would add to Bonsoir's remark that it is generally a good idea to remove potential sources of conflict such as coins from the arena.

Before I had dc I was at a dear friend's house and watched her 18 mth old stick her hands in the large plant pot in the living room. She got told not to once, twice, three times and then carried upstairs to have time out in her cot so that she "learned."

I always wondered why she just didn't move the plant.

Notyummy - i have let a lot of small things slide simply because i don't think i will win that battle, and it will just end up with me nagging. DD tends to copy lots of things, so i am hoping that lots of things (table manners etc) will be picked up at some point.

! You can't move everything!

But PMSL at giving an 18mth 'time out in their cot' - they'd have forgotten what it was about by the time they got upstairs, no?

Some mums are very comfortable with the loud, scary voice. For others it's quite alien and is something that only comes out in times of great danger. I don't like shouting and my three kids are not particularly defiant or disobedient. I give them a couple of minutes warning about when I want them to stop/start doing something, I don't bother with long pleadings or explanations - removing the offending object and offering an immediate distraction is quite effective with young children. Above all, stay calm and centred. You have to know clearly in your own mind what you want from your children and as long as it is realistic for their developmental age you can get it. They do generally want to please you so don't stint on praise and pleasure at the nice things you see!