Nursery care is harmful - guilty parent here.

[fifitot]

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/may/08/oliver-james-daycare-under-threes

Thanks Oliver.

The comments below are quite interesting though.

Oh v slow typing there, missed a few posts.

Northernlurker, exactly. It's all important, a whole lifetime of interaction and decisions and probably getting it wrong too.

LLW, I will certainly give it a miss then. Looks like I've been really taking the piss with DH too, made him do bath and bedtime too tonight

2cats I don't think we're trying to make you change your mind. Perhaps showing some compassion would be nice, however...

*2cats" at dd's nursery about 5 of the staff have their own babies/dcs in the nursery.

Just because "all of the mums" you know and "none of the nursery nurses you know would..." doesn't mean that you are right.

you're out of touch with your maternal feelings if you think a baby is better off in a nursery?!

And yes, I groan under the angst of maternal instinct to stay at home every day I work. There is what's right and what's possible.

2cats, are you serious????????

Out of touch with our maternal instincts?! FFS

Yes, because we all know that there is only one way to raise children now don't we?

i find my avaricious life,vertiginous heels and career cushion me from any maternal guilt

there now,is that what you wanted to hear cats

I'm going to bed now, sorry, DS will be up at 6am and we have a day of feeding the ducks, drawing and lots of cuddles. We will not agree this and I don't want to start arguing x

scottishmummy btw I suspect that hand-knitted tampons might be a a bit over rated.

Oliver James says he doesn't want to make working mothers feel guilty. This from a man who has written a book called "They F* You Up"

2cats, how many nursery nurses do you know? What kind of nurseries do they work in?

Not very scientific and very provocative. Care to back it up with something more sensible and reasoned?

And the purpose of this thread is not to change your mind, you are welcome to your different approach to child rearing.

the i know a nursery nurse and she says they beat dem children you know.poor weans crying as heartless mums trots off in her haze of perfume and tap of heels

the ole clichés i know women who knows a woman and she said are the best

Oh 2 cats, now of course my excuse of having no choice is flawed. I should have sold my house (which is so easy in the current climate) and rented from the council where nice people like you, and all the affluent mums who put their children in nursery, can pay for my benefits so that I too can spend nice days with DC and the ducks.

You sound like a rather smug cow tbh

hehehe can't wait to pack my kids off to the workhouse tomorrow while I have a lovely looooong day enjoying myself at work.

Well that's lovely 2shoes, make sweeping and judgemental statements, then show off about having a lovely day with your DC tomorrow whilst most of us have the Sunday night blues. Basically 'My life is better than yours, ner ner.' Cheers then.

weans up chimmneys is good.small and agile.will work for less than min wage and some cbeebies

I don't know any nursery workers who have their own children in nursery full time, but I do know lots that use nursery part time.

One of the big problems with a discussion like this is the huge gulf between good and crap nurseries. I work in an outstanding nursery and am on the waiting list for a place at an even better one for my own baby, but tbh I have also worked in a nursery I wouldn't leave an animal in.

I really believe the difference between a good and bad nursery, in general, is the level of staff qualification/training/experience and the number of staff members above minimum ratios. The problem is though, good staff are expensive, so most nurseries will cut costs there if they can.

My mother looks after DD (18mo) whilst I work. Part time. She was a primary school teacher specialising in early years. The quality of care my DD receives when I am at work is, in all probability, far superior to the care she receives from me.

Do I feel guilty going to work and leaving her?

Of course I fucking do.

A mother's guilt at going to work has no bearing on the quality of childcare their DC are receiving.

at my nursery staff have their children there.

martyrs!!!

farking hell.

dh and i could probably afford me me to stay at home until dd goes to school if we lived quite a frugal life and gave up treats like holidays etc etc. or i could go back to work part time and have a stable income (dh is self employed and we are a bit boom and bust atm), buy a 4 bedroomed house (straight to hell for me!) and have extra money to spend on a nice lifestyle for dd and put some away for her in the future. i had a priviledged upbringing and i have the resources to give that to dd as well if i go back to work. whatsmore, if i work then dh can spend much more time at home with dd. oj doesn't factor in dads much does he?

self righteous tosser

sungirltan - like your style!

True, tethersend. DS has a much better time with his funtime grandparents than he does with tired, grumpy me.

If the original article was based on 'crap childcare is bad for your child's development' then yes, useful because it can help towards raising standards. But he doesn't say that exactly. He sort of touches on good childcare being better than a poor home life but that's a bit obvious isn't it?

Missus84 & Nickschick, how do you reckon standards could/ should be measured? Where DS goes sounds like you describe your place, Nickschick. They're always happy to have a snotty kiss and one particular member of staff is always covered in children at pick up time. I turned up once and she had a queue of children waiting for a cuddle, ah.

i love martyr mums.the give it all up,sell up crew

yes lets all sell up
exfolitae with brillo pads
never have haircut
eschew any material goods
...all for the widdle ones

motherhood isnt a giving things up competition

belle - thanks!

i'm so dissapointed though that all the enlighted parenting styles of the 60's/70's and general equality issues really have been abandoned in the noughties in favour of this black and white, antiquated thinking. i'm sorry but i found that article as offensive as a baby book i'm not allowed to mention on here.

I agree. I did start to post about how these kind of articles are a reaction to the idea that women have choices now. How dare we, eh?

hairymelons - measuring standards is really hard, and I do think you can't really get a feel for a nursery unless you spend a lot of time there. The rubbish nursery I worked at seemed fine when I went for interview, and I'm sure the parents that used it thought it was good (it was at the more expensive end of the scale too!) or they wouldn't send their children there. I visited a nursery recently for my own baby, and although the tour was great, how much can you really know about a place in 45 minutes?

In my experience, Ofsted reports are pretty accurate indicators, much as this flies against popular opinion of Ofsted! I did nursery supply for a while, and always looked up the Ofsted report before going and they were mostly spot on.