Nursery care is harmful - guilty parent here.

[fifitot]

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/may/08/oliver-james-daycare-under-threes

Thanks Oliver.

The comments below are quite interesting though.

The nursery I worked at was initially very run down -the owner paid the bulk of the money out into staff wages ....we were all dedicated and worked as a team and our children were very happy,we had Doctors children attend teachers children lawyers children etc etc and whilst we didnt have the most high tech equipment we had lots of time 'with' the children -watching the tadpoles,reading stories under a satin sheet or a heavy blanket with a torch,finger painting and gardening.

I think probably this was before all the OFSTED things came into practice when children would sit on your knee and wriggle all over you whilst you read to them and children rushed into nursery each morning and greeted us with snotty kisses-at one time in nursery everywhere I went i had a little girl just follow me clinging on to my shirt tail or my thigh -she was new and needed reassurance -modern day practice would be to settle her,we let her decide when she was ready to join in until then she stayed with me -and like a hand reared duckling she soon followed her peers.

I even took one of my charges to his first day at school his mum was very busy at work and wanted it to be a special day for him so she arranged with my employer that he would come to nursery in his uniform and I would walk him into school at 8.45am-it was a very emotional day for all 3 of us .

Highlystrung I am normally a very calm person and rarely have a go at people but your comment has hacked me off no end.

"We don't want to hear it because as a society we value women's right to self fulfilment over the basic needs of children"

WTF. A womans right to self fulfilment. Who the fuck do you think you are????

I have been sat in tears reading that article. As the main breadwinner (by quite some distance) I had no choice but to go back to work. DH is a part time SAHD but as much as tries to socialise at groups, a full time SAHD makes for a very lonely life indeed. Or is my DH expressing his right to self fulfilment?? FFS.

notsotiny,dont let alarmist chuff upset you.thing is you do need to grow a thick skin as a mum.im impervious to someone else opinion on nursery use,they can look on as observer but they dont live it

Using paid childcare doesn't mean you have abrogated responsibility for children. You are still raising them. It really is remarkable how some people feel knowing one aspect of a person's parenting qualifies them to judge not only that aspect but the whole and predict outcomes.

I will be parenting (God willing) for the rest of my life. Work and family is a far more complex debate than what happens in the nursery years.

Some aspects of attachment theory research are loaded with judgements about whether resultant behaviour is 'good ' or 'bad.' Who's to say whether some personality traits are better than others for success in the modern world?

I'm tired of psychologists harking back to some mythical 1950's era, when women stayed at home, which never existed - my widowed grandmother worked two jobs and left my mum in front of the TV drinking fizzy drinks every evening do she could earn money. Not so long ago children as young as four worked down the mines with their parents. We need to get some perspective folks. Nursery care may not be perfect but hell, I'm not a perfect SAHM.

Presumably all the studies correlating cortisol to poor behavior were carried out using very select crowd of well-balanced children with adequate parenting from stable homes with typical sibling relationships and no poor external influences from bad housing situations and low incomes or poor diets, meaning that there could be no other explanations for poor behaviour!
IMO these children do not exist.
I am thinking about the really positive social experience that my son is currently experiencing in creche. And the incredible lengths the staff have just gone to for the last week trying to make him feel comfortable as he has just started.
I think the article sounds unrealistically harsh on the reporting of the research results and not honest enough about the meaning (or lack of meaning as it actually is) of a correlation in statistical studies. A correlation points to interesting further research and is NOT in itself evidence of an effect.

Oh yes, Steve Biddulph for example...etc etc. hairy, did you know that all boys are the same? Apparently boys can't sit still/listen/pay attention and they need to be treated differently from all girls who are lovely and quiet blah blah blah. Don't forget to show your DH the bit about how he could interact with your DC, perhaps by changing a nappy every now and again

Also, doesn't this kind of research come in cycles to coincide with economic conditions? i.e. in times of economical hardship there are less jobs to go round so, oh look - it's best that women (usually) should stay at home for the good of their children. there will be more research along later to completely contradict it sooner or later.

As many of you have noted, it's more complex than that. Children are influenced by so many millions of factors and conditions that to reduce it down in this way is naive and unhelpful. I certainly would have gone nuts if I couldn't have gone back to work and I think that would have resulted in more cortisol for all of us.

scottishmummy - I know I need to be more resilient. I'm very very sensitive about it as without boring everyone with the details there was no option but full time work for me.

So I need to toughen up.

Grrrr

I'm on a shit wage, emilystrange. But I earn slightly more per month more than DS's nursery costs. It's enough of a difference to mean I have to work more than I would like to.

Not that I need to justify the fact that I work at all, you should just know that there are a multitude of reasons why people need to use childcare and the assumption that those that do are high earners is simply incorrect.

You see the thing is you might be able to cut your own hair but if your not a hairdresser then maybe its best to go to a hairdresser ....likewise with childcare if you are returning to do a job you trained to do- then the second best thing is that you choose professional childcare...it makes sense,no??

Some parents send their dc to nursery and stay at home.

If your happy with your childcare and your child is thriving then why fret??

Some children are at home stuck in front of jeremy kyle and being pushed around tesco in the afternoon.

A good nursery offers your children an idyllic environment with regard to development-something not every home can.

Being honest (as a SAHM myself at the moment) if your dc wants to paint do you cheerfully provide all the equipment or do you think ohhhh nooooo i need to get the washing done etc etc.

Its all about neccesary choices.

As someone who works as a senior nurse/therapist in CAMHS I have to say OJ ISN'T popular amongst CAMHS colleagues and that includes child and adolescent psychiatrists and psychologists who're just as experienced and qualified as he is. Just not media whoring themselves, preferring to work in the NHS looking out for families in genuine need.

he hugely has his own agenda and is a bit of a mysogynist IMO. His "article" references 1 dated small study, he has not given fair or due consideration to all the evidence. In a previous column he dismissed the genetic link for schizophrenia and bi-polar sufferers announcing it was pretty much all down to nurture. Statement like that are pretty dangerous, genetic predisposition is one of the Main things to look out for when assessing someone who's psychotic and it has been incorporated in the training of drs and nurses for many many years. Makes me .

My dd is at a brilliant nursery (rated outstanding by offstead 2 yr waiting list) she's 3.8 she's been there since she was 7mo (part time). Ds will be going when he's 1. It has benefitted her behaviourally, socially, emotionally and intellectually. She has fantastic relationships with her key workers and they never leave the babies to cry. their behaviour management policy is fantastic. They simply don't have bad behaviour. There's no way I'd have been able to provide her with all these opportunities at home, the staff are all qualified to NVQ2 AT LEAST in childcare many of them with more qualifications. Far superior to a grandparent IMO and also to a childminder based on the childminders I've met. Don't get me wrong nice people but nowhere near what the nursery provides.

that article hasn't made me feel gulity, just cross.

notsotiny, me too... We can only do our best for our children.

Look in my totally unscientific analysis, DD1 was cared fir by me at home until she went full time at pre-school age 4.

Now at school she has many friends who were in nursery care from an early age. Is there a marked difference between them ? No there isn't. They are all well-adjusted normal kids doing well at school.

lowlev - oh god is he like that?? i am curious because hes always sold out in my waterstones.

why have these antiquated theories come back into vogue? all that enlightenment about parenting in the 60s/70s seems to have been ditched in favour of this biddulph fella and that scary woman with the no eye ocntact feeding (shall say no more about 'er)

Sorry but I'm really against nurseries for the under 3s. Parents who do this always have the same excuse "I had no choice, bills to pay etc". The mums I know who have put their children into nursery at a young age are affluent, middle class and have 4 bedroom houses!

Thank you, minx. More than you can know...

But 2cats if thats what they chose and they equally chose 'good' childcare wheres the problem? Just because it doesnt suit you doesnt mean its the same for everyone.

2cats - maybe that's because you only know middle class affluent people with 4 bedroom houses ?! I am none of the above, and my DCs are in nursery.

2Cats I am single parent with outgoings of approx £2000 per month without DD's nursery fees which add the best part of another £1000. Would you think it better to default on all my debts, lose my house, and be supported by the state? How would that be good for my DD?

Come on, you're out of touch with your maternal feelings if you think a baby is better off in a nursery?! Every nursery nurse I've ever spoken to would never put their young children into nursery care - what does this tell you? I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I definitely will not change my mind on this.

sungirl, I may have paraphrased slightly but it does seem rather dated. Very black and white and patronising.

bills aren't an excuse they are financial necessity.are you suggesting everyone sell up.move out of property, knit own tampons and strain yoghurt to eke out a living.oh fuck that

i love work.it fulfils me.i get approbation and validation from it.

Good for you 2cats. none of the mums I know who have put their children into nursery at a young age are affluent, middle class and have 4 bedroom houses.

We all make our own decisions based on what we think is best for our own families, and also practical considerations.

2cats - are you saying that affluent mums should all downsize or even go on the housing register in order to be able to be SAHMs?

We have a 3 bed house but cannot afford for me not to work. I earn more than DH, he won't give up work and anyway, we just can't make it all add up on one salary.

Oh dear.