Nursery care is harmful - guilty parent here.

[fifitot]

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/may/08/oliver-james-daycare-under-threes

Thanks Oliver.

The comments below are quite interesting though.

absolutely no guilt using nursery.places booked 12wk pg

It is not true. It is an opinion.

Potential higher cortisol levels vs losing our home and having decent food?

None brainer for me. I have to go to work.

geek exactly, what on earth can you do with this research. It cannot change your decisions.

All parents have to make tough calls. Always have, always will. Over analysis serves no constructive purpose.

Maybe the point isn't some conspiracy to make working parents feel bad, but the research can be used to improve nursery care for children? Things like more space per child, lower limits on group numbers could lower children's stress levels - although of course things like that would need greater government investment in early years.

pre-children had mortgage,career,i love dont want to give it up.dual income to maintain our commitments.you know whimsy things like bills,food.shucks i suppose i could give it all up,exfoliate with a brillo pad,no more consumer fripperies.but why the hell should i

we chose nursery.purposefully selected that option

and i want to work. i worked bloody hard for my degrees and post-grads.not to mention post qualifying study too

My DD has been at nursery since 10 months old, and FT since she was 15 months. She cried this morning because she wanted to go to nursery and I told her it was shut. Does that suggest an environment that is bad?

I chose DD's nursery on the basis of the number of carers per child (2 children to 1 carer for the tots) and the atmosphere of calm and the happiness of the children. She loves it and I am confident that she is streets ahead in terms of development than she would be if it were down to me. It costs a lot of money though - more than most independent school fees per year.

I think the ideal is probably some time at home and some time at nursery. That would be my choice as I think the children get the best of both worlds that way.

On the Cortisol thing, can I ask if the same is true for children when they start school? Surely the same thing would apply although perhaps a lower increased level (if that makes sense) as the child is older?

belle good point about school, especially when children are actively encouraged to start at reception year, which can be as young as just 4.

I don't think the article is designed to make people feel bad if they don't have a choice, and he makes it very clear that daycare is better than depressed/disinterested mummy at home.

I do think it's relevant for articles like this to be written though, especially for people like me. I am a SAHM, but for a while DS went to nursery 1 day a week. The main reason for this was that I was consistently being told by other people that it was important for him to be 'socialised' and that I wasn't doing the best for him by being at home with him.

I do have a choice to send him, so I appreciate hearing research on the matter so I can make an educated decision.

TBH, there has been a noticeable improvement in DS behaviour since he left nursery (notably he is much less whiney) but I'm aware this may not be the same for everyone.

Some people don't have a choice in whether or not they send their children to day care, but that isn't a reason to suppress information/research for others, as long as is presented in a sympathetic way (ie. not 'working mothers are the devil' but 'nursery may not be the best care option if others are available)

I'm thinking about school a lot at the moment and probably about to start the world's most boring thread on the subject!

elvis I get that a lot too!

Belle - I had the same question. I wonder if there is any research on that available?

With regards to my last post [sorry if i made no sense)

Lots of young schoolgirls are leaving school some with childcare experience some without and doing 'some' training then they are getting jobs as nursery nurses -not because they enjoy the work or are greatly experienced and some are just not up to it.

Childcare isnt something that anyone can do and I think that its pushed at school leavers some who may never have thought of doing it.

In essence to be a good childcarer you need a level of professional training that sometimes isnt just given.

To get onto the NNEB course that I did many years ago you needed 6 A-C grades and it was 2 years of very intense study,a friend of mine albeit she is very nice and has a lovely way with children did a 12 week course and now considers herself a nursery nurse.

I know some young girls leave school and go to work in nurseries and they are fantastic at what they do - but thats not always the case.
By the same rule I have at least 3 friends who have recently become nursery nurses simply because their children are in school and they have got jobs in nurseries having had no experience previously.

I think the point im trying to emphasise is the difference between 'good' childcare and 'just about making it' childcare may become a lot wider if the staff arent trained to a high standard.

There is probably something in it but that is besides the point. What else can working mothers do?

Until it becomes financially viable to take 2 years off work then women will always have to use nurseries. It's fair enough to say we need to know these things but in the face of it, it depresses the hell out of me because I can't do anything about it!

What size families were children in the study from?

I have a sneaking suspicion that the cortisol levels of only children at home with a parent were contrasted with the children in nursery... what are the cortisol levels of a child at home with a parent and multiple siblings, and how does this compare? And would we ever use that information to tell people not to have more than one child on the basis that it had a harmful effect?

I still see my 'babies'- some even have babies of their own.

I can honestly say I truly loved all of my charges and enjoyed helping them develop and learn- im still in touch with several of the mums going back 17 years!!!

The nuclear family is not natural and fairly recent in human history.

In other parts of the world we live in tribes and children are often looked after by people other than their mothers.

My daughter is happy at her nursery. She took a month to settle, but now has taken a shine to one of the nursery nurses. It is a good nursery and the girl has been there several years. She is in a baby room with six babies and two to three staff so its not that different to childminder.

The difficulty is finding affordable good childcare. What is sad is the pointless paperwork that EYFS inflicts on childcare providers. Why does it have to formally documented everytime my daughter farts?

Like tethersend, the thing about the article that baffled me was when he advised people to choose a childminder who minded only one other child, preferably one that is older than your own.

Given that most people have more than one child, and plenty have three under fives at once (esp if they have twins) - does that mean that all these children are getting substandard care at home . . .

Tethersend - that's another study I'd like to see the results of! I think it would certainly put studies like this into context for people and help make the decisions clearer for those of us who are lucky enough to have the flexibility to make them.

Oliver James' weekly article invariably leaves me wondering if I am somehow damaging/have already damaged my children yet again. I should probably just not bother reading them; they also often make me a bit cross. The length of the articles is just too short to really convey enough detail on complex issues.

They have to draw some "conclusion" to catch the eye and make you read them each week.

I'm a SAHM, so this one should have made me feel like giving my self a pat on the back. But, it just irritated me. Some interesting points, but as with all things I'm sure "it's a bit more complicated than that".

I'm going to repeat a lovely comment I saw on MN a few weeks back ...something along the lines of
"if humans were that fragile, the country would be run by squirrels" ..hee hee ...loved it!

I find his initial disclaimer, about not wanting to upset people who have no option, very patronising. Especially as it relates to mothers not PARENTS.

Both my DCs have attended nursery part-time since fairly young (DD 9mo, DS 12mo). Even if we had family nearby, I would have chosen this option. I would be interested to see how going to a good nursery, with consistancy of care from a nominated 'keyworker' who the child becomes very close to, compares to being shipped round to a different relative every day, which is what some of my colleagues choose to do.

nickschick...you make a great point. (Now I understand it! ) You provide excellent childcare, and lots of babies receive excellent care. Sadly, for numerous reasons, it's not universal.

Tethersend, I was one of six children and I'm pretty sure that my DS's nursery is a lot less stressful than our house was!

This thing about quality daycare too, how is that quantified? Maybe you know Nickschick?
Beacuse, although the ofsted was fine for DS's nursery, it looks pretty shabby. I'm not sure whether that they'll be hot-housing him into early reading or whatever, either.

Thing is, we visited loads of nurseries and this was the only one where the staff didn't seem stresed out and fed up of bloody kids children. They are loving and kind towards their charges and I know that if he needs a cuddle, he will get one. Seems we're lucky to have landed a place with such great staff. How can this warmth, affection and not-hating-your-job be measured though?