My two year old wakes up at 4:45am every morning..... Help

[jellyjem]

I'm at my wits end, she used to sleep really well but for the last month or so she's been waking earlier and earlier and now she's awake at 4:45am.

She doesn't cry when she wakes up just shouts for either myself or my hubby to go to her and if we ignore her which we tried yesterday and today she starts screaming and banging the walls with toys. Very hard to ignore and I feel guilty as she must be waking up our next door neighbour too.

When we go into her she's usually still sucking her thumb so she must still be tired, I can usually manage to get her back into bed and I just tuck her in and say "go back to sleep, its too early" or something similar and then leave her room again straight away rather than make a big issue out of it but within 10 or 15 minutes she's awake again and the pattern starts again.

I'm so tired today I had to drag myself into work and I've drank so much coffee in an effort to stay awake that I've got the shakes. Please can someone give me a strategy of what to do/how to cope with this. Will she grow out of it? She used to be a brilliant sleeper and still goes to bed really well but the early mornings are now getting that early they're starting to turn into bad nights.

fifitots locking the child in her room was exactly what people were advocating. A flimsy bolt. And so on.

The long and the short of this is there is no short-term solution. They grow out of it. In the mean time you deal with it, you go to bed earlier, you co-sleep, whatever. But locking a child of two in their room is never acceptable. Ever.

Haven't read all the comments so mabe someone as already said this. But drop the sleep in the day if she can't manage everyday - let her have a sleep every other day.

If she still has bottle of milk to go to bed - then if she wakes early just get her a bottle of milk. Just let her drink it in bed/cot and she if she goes back to sleep.

Good luck

I'd suggest keeping the pm nap, but would keep it to an hour maximum and make sure that they do not sleep too late in the afternoon. Awake by 2.30ish? Fresh air and exercise in the afternoon.

I have heard of people dropping the nap for a period of say two weeks to 'reset' the body and to get them to sleep longer in the morning. If this happens you could re-introduce a short nap again.

IMO a two yo would be needing at least 12 (perhaps 13 of 14) hours sleep per 24 hour period. Whether that is on one chunk or two.

Really hope this improves for you and fast.

drop the daytime nap
Gina Ford rocks.

GreenMonkies - not sure you're selling your own methods too well, if it's true that your early starts have been going on for 6 and a half years. Seems to me that, in your case, they don't grow out of it.
And I think it's pretty insensitive to suggest that the OP (and others in similar positions) should "get up and look after her," whatever the time. The implication there is that they don't love their children if they don't wish to do this at 4:30 in the morning (or was that alesmama?) If a child is ill or upset, that's one thing, but one who is having a game and chucking things at walls, and pulling the duvet off her parents' bed, demanding that they get "up, up, up" is a whole different ball game.
I love my kids to distraction, but DH and I were in charge, not them. They learnt very early on that Mummy and Daddy were Very Dull Company Indeed in the middle of the night.

IMO I don't see what is wrong with putting a gate on the door or whatever as long as you then go to them if they are clearly getting distressed.

I shut (not lock) the door on DS' bedroom when he goes to bed. If I leave it ajar he keeps coming downstairs. If I shut it he knows he can't open it and come downstairs so doesn't try. It doesn't distress or upset him in anyway. If he did get up and try and open the door and started crying I would go to him if he hadn't gone back to bed in a few minutes. I wouldn't just leave him there crying.

I agree with clam - by all means don't leave your kids in any kind of distress but don't think it's unreasonable to get them into a routine of getting out of bed at a reasonable hour. IME when my DD was at her worst, her 5am starts impact on her as much as me. She doesn't get a nap at school so has to manage and is consequently wracked with tiredness by mid-afternoon.

Sometimes you have to try and impose a routine on them whether they want to or ot -rather than just accept that's what they do.

Well said Clam and fifitot. In my opinion a well rested Mummy, (well, as well rested as any parent of young children can be!)is a happy Mummy, and a happy Mummy results in happy children. From my experience children like boundaries and rules alongside the love and cuddles, it makes them feel secure.

And where's the incentive for the child who is greeted lovingly by Mum or Dad in the middle of the night with cuddles and games to learn to go back to sleep by themselves?

Clam - You did realise I was agreeing with you completely didn't you?

clam you clearly haven't read what I wrote, or you'd see that they do grow out of it, my eldest did, and now my youngest is doing. I have two children, nearly three years apart, the eldest sleeps just fine now.

As for the incentive to sleep? Well, we don't greet them with cuddles and games (what kind of idiot would do that?) they are shhh'd and to go back to sleep. However, they are not shut in their room alone, or ignored.

DD1 slept in her own room from 8 months of age (as the "rules" say to. I got sick of getting up to got to her by the time she was 18 months old, so we put her in a normal single bed with a cot rail on it to stop her falling out and that way when she woke in the night she could just come through by her self and get in with us and go back to sleep. DD2 slept in a sidecar cot from birth, and moved into the bottom bunk in DD1's room when she was about 2½ and like her big sister, if she woke in the night she simply came through and got in with us and went back to sleep.

Night waking is normal for babies and small children. We seem to have this idea that they should be sleeping 12 hours without stirring from about 12 weeks of age (or even younger) and it's total nonsense. ALmost everyone wakes slightly in the night every few hours, even most adults. Many people will have a drink in the middle of the night, or a wee, or just look at the clock and register that it's not getting up time yet and go back to sleep. We do this without fully waking up because we are adults and we generally know where we are and just settle back off to sleep again.

Babies and small children don't have this rational ability to think "it's ok, mummy is next door" or what ever, so when they wake, they wake. If you read research about this you'll see that theres nothing odd or strange about children waking in the night and not wanting to be alone (you sleep with your DH/P, why should they not be allowed company?), what is odd is the way it's treated in this country/society.

Oh, and I'm not saying that I like the broken sleep I've had over the last 6 years, or that it's good, but, I accept it as normal, and that caring for my children is the responsibility I took on when I decided to have them, and that responsibility doesn't go away just because it's before 7am.

having the same problem with ds who is 3 1/2 years...we've put his little lamp on a timer so it 'pops' on at 7am..i would say 'dont get up til your light pops on' which worked initially but now he uses lots of excuses like toilet or just general playing to get up so i've bought his favourite ice creams (mini cones from aldi) and if he stays in bed until his light pops on he gets to have an ice cream at some point through the day - his choice when.
its worked! he likes the ritual of getting the ice cream himself and when he likes (the only proviso is it has to be for or after morning snack not for breakfast!)....might be worth a try depending on how old yours is.....

But Greenmonkies I am not sure we are all talking about babies here are we? From 2 I don't think they are babies and need to learn to sleep on their own as that will pretty much be default mode until they become adults and live with a partner.

I'm not against co-sleeping per se but there is no way would it work for everybody.

Yes kids do wake up during the night and in my case I don't ignore, I just go in and settle her. Yes I agree it is unrealistic to think children will sleep for 12 hours. I am not sure anyone is saying this.

I think people are just exploring the different ways to help a child go back to sleep instead of getting out of bed at 4.45 am every day.

Yes, hmmsleep, I knew that. Just continuing my rant!

Jellyjem - Hope you are not getting put off by the arguments.

I don't see that you are putting your own needs before your DD. Far from it. You need your sleep and rest to be able to function as a happy and positive parent as well as to be effective in your job. Long term sleep deprivation can have a serious impact on your physical and mental health. I know this because I have experienced it.

Your DD needs her sleep, too. Having her 'miss' an hour or more sleep a day due to early rising will be compromising her mental and physical growth. Children need their sleep. Encouraging or allowing to start her day before 5am will not help either of you if it becomes a habit.

Try some of the suggestions see what works for you. Light-up clocks, lamps on timer, sticker chard/reward for staying quietly in bed until the clock or light comes on?

You have my sympathy.

GreenMonkies, I think that you're underestimating the fact that waking up at 5.00 am, every single morning for months on end is exhausting. You're also implying that there is a particular thing that's 'normal' and other things that are not. And yet co-sleeping is not normal for many many families, for various reasons. Who's to say what's 'normal' and what's not?

If we talk about specifics. Personally, I too am against the idea of a bolt on the door for various reasons. I'm also against the idea of leaving babies/toddlers to cry unless there's a specific reason to do so (& even then I think it needs to be done in a very particular, pre-planned but also flexible way), e.g. when we took away DS's dummy at 9 months there was crying involved BUT first, we dealt with it with loads of reassuring in between, and second, it meant he went to him waking every 1 hour for his dummy (I kid you not) to him sleeping through. Now for me that's crying that has a very very good reason to exist, I don't regret it for a moment. It was just a change of habit which has meant he's getting real rest now & is ok during the day.

The idea that there's only one correct & normal way to treat children/babies is wrong. Also the idea that they necessarily grow out of bad sleep habits is not true for all children, many many adults have sleep problems & with many it goes back to not sleeping well at night as a child, or depending on very particular props eg other people to sleep with in order to sleep well.

You have to allow for the possibility that responding to children in the night in a particular way, e.g. allowing them to co-sleep on demand, or responding to their every whimper is not necessarily helpful to them & 'looking after them'. Again, as I said, after our 3-4 nights of mild controlled crying to get rid of the dummy at 9 months, we always go in to DS when he's crying & we respond to him, plus he very often ends up in our bed for various reasons- e.g. every time he's unwell. I'm just wary of the idea that basically parents need to suck it up & wake up at 5.00 am every morning because 'that's what normal'. Clearly its not normal for many families as babies can (in most cases) learn to sleep better, & its madness to not suggest ways to get around this problem when it means lack of sleep for the whole family & miserable parents & children. Not everyone can cope equally well with sleep deprivation, some people can live with it & be relatively ok (even though they don't like it). Others simply can't cope, get depressed, can't work, lose all energy etc. What do you say to them? 'Its normal' is not an answer, neither is 'co-sleep and it'll solve the problem'. As I said, we've co-slept on & off since birth & it hasn't in itself solved our sleep problems (which have various reasons, won't go into them here).

As for the OPs very sad situation (waking up at 4.45 must be awful, I do sympathize). I would tackle it this way:

-keep a sleep diary e.g. note how many hours your DD is getting overall including naps. Do this for at least 2 weeks so that you know what sleep she 'naturally' needs

-Then you could try various things. Cutting down a bit on the napping is one thing. But on its own its unlikely to solve your problem. The wake to sleep technique sounds promising & very mild. I would definitely not let a 2 year old to cry when waking so early, the idea is to get her in the habit of getting back to sleep, crying a lot will only wake her up completely. I think the WTS technique, plus monitoring overall sleep (tweaking nap time) plus the clock all may work. Sometimes for our DS taking him to our bed when he wakes at 4-5 am works & we all sleep together until 8 BUT the problem with that is he then wants to come to our bed earlier & earlier & starts waking at 11 pm to come to our bed (cheeky monkey). But if your DD will settle in your bed for a couple of hours sleep & only does that in the early morning, it may be a solution temporarily. But as I said, I would then make sure I had a clear idea how much sleep she needs overall & work on that.

crikey....um...firtly big sympathy to you, lack of sleep is really really hard to bear, especially if it is night after night.
i put all my 3 (not at the same time!) in beds at about 20 months, with a bed guard, door shut when they are going to sleep. I would open the door when i went to bed, all 3 have got in our bed at about 4-5 in the morning, ds2 (6) still does sometimes. I don't even wake up, they are just there asleep next to me when the alarm goes off at 8 (sorry!) i think maybe they get cold at 4 ish, this is the coldest time of the night apparently.
another idea might be to put a dvd on in your bedroom as low as possible and try and snooze through it? put a biscuit by the bed ready and a carton of drink maybe? i am expert at sleeping through teletubbies now !

Maria it has not been "every single morning for months on end" it has been for about a month.

And no I'm not underestimating how tiring it is, if you'd read anything that I have written earlier you'd know that I have done this, with two children, over the las 6 years.

When I make a reference to what is "normal" I am talking about what is biologically normal, not what is considered normal in our society. Biologically speaking human babies are programmed to breastfeed, on demand and co-sleep until they about 2, and at some point after this they will start to become independent and self-wean and start to sleep in their own space. However, those of us who do this with our children in Western societies are considered freaks and wierdos, even though it is actually the Gina Ford-esque forced independence, formula feeding and dummy use that is actually abnormal, from an Anthropological point of view.

And fifitot, actually yes, 2 is still very much a baby, and not really very grown up at all.

GreenMonkies I've read all your posts - and like the bolt-on-the-door faction on this thread, your views are extreme. Where's the science on "biologically speaking human babies are programmed to breastfeed, on demand and co-sleep" for 2 years? Co-sleep? Really? Biology dictates that?
I have the happiest 2 year old. He sleeps from 7pm to 7am without a murmur, in his own cot, in his own room (now with a night light). and he has from 12 weeks. No breast feeding (medical reasons), and no co-sleeping whatsoever. A bit of Gina-lite.
I'm not boasting, just saying that all babies are different and may need different things.
Your extreme views are no more palatable than the locking the door brigade and in some ways, less enlightened.

Try cutting back on fluids late in the day. Ds2 used to wake at 4 or 5 every day for what felt like forever. I'm 100% sure he was waking as he did a wee (in his nappy obv!) and couldn't/wouldn't get back to sleep. As he got older his bladder control improved and his wakings became later and later.

Take heart, ds2 now (aged 4) sleeps like a dream - often until 6.30 or sometimes 7!

LittleOneMum Oh, just a few hippy loons think that babies are hard-wired to co-sleep, no research at all, honest......

Well that's your view Greenmonkies. In my world, I don't think from 2 years onwards is in anyway unatural to expect my child to learn to sleep on their own. In fact you quote research that says from 2 - surely that is the age the OP is talking about.

I am far from any kind of GF person and actually bf my DD until she was 3. However I drew the line at night feeds from 2 onwards as it was so exhausting and unecessary.

Your choice might be co-sleeping but as said, it doesn't suit everyone. The modern demands on work etc mean not everyone has the time or space to be a 'hippy loon'. Doesn't mean you are some kind of routine nazi either.

GreenMonkies believe me I know there's loads of 'research' advocating loads of things, and attachment parenting happens to be the latest thing. If you read Christina Hardyment's 'Dream babies' you'll see how views about parenting change with the times & there's nothing 'biologically' correct one way or another, there are different cultural ways of doing things.

The idea that there is the 'normal', biologically 'correct' way (aka AP) & then there are all the freaks / weirdos who follow routines or have children in separate bedroom etc, parents who are somehow 'brainwashed' by western culture is such a naive view of looking at human cultures. Human beings are naturally social creatures, their thoughts & cultural creations are what's natural to them, which means a wide diversity of raising children. I think its completely unenlightened & actually unimaginative to think your way is 'natural' (although I know AP is very fashionable etc).

I say all this as a parent who, as I've written, co-sleeps happily on & off, had a good bf experience etc.

And lastly: if you managed to survive on so little sleep, that's great, but not everyone can or wants to, and some people literally can't manage the sleep deprivation, and if there are ways to help, its frankly disingenuous to not suggest them... the idea of MN I thought was to help other mothers not to impose one's own 'enlightened' views in such an angry way, with a healthy dose of 'fucking' and 'fuck' in between.

Head.

Desk.

Thud.

Thud.

Thud.

Thud.

That's me, banging my head against a brick wall.