What would YOU do in this situation?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Ok so yesterday ds1 was home early from school. I had planned to take ds1 and ds2 to the indoor play. I asked ds1 to help me get things sorted out and for him to pick the 3 things off the floor that needed picking up. He said no and immediatly started shouting at me.

I ignored him but he would not let up.
This went on from 10am until 7pm last night. I did not shout at him or raise to the bait in any way other than to say "If you don't do as I ask I will take one of your toys away" which i ended up doing.

He then started screaming and shouting even louder so I took his mobile phone away. I had it in my hand and he went to grab it. Obviously being bigger than him I just stood up and he repeatedly jumped up grabbing my arm, I still never reacted - it took a lot not to I will admit.

After 25 minutes of him trying to grab his phone he went to hit me at which point I grabbed his arm and told him if he did hit me not only would I slap him I would be calling the police.

I know I was wrong to threaten to slap him, even though I did not shout it was wrong.

I took his phone and hid it because otherwise he would have kept taking it back.

When i came back in the living room he was going right into one throwing all the clothes (off washing airer) onto the floor, DS2's toys everywhere, he shoved ds2 over, and then grabbed the book ds2 had been playing with (an interactive one) and started slamming it into the ground until it broke.

DS2 kept trying to get it to work and saying "oh bwoke" he is just 2 yrs old. today he keeps looking for it.

What would you do in this situation? I am amazed at myself that I kept a cool calm head yesterday, but today he wants to be my best friend and he seems to have forgotten what happened yesterday. He is 11 BTW. Has no SN, has been seeing a child psychologist for the last 5 months who now agrees that to DS1 this is a game. He has spoken to him in great length and DS1 is so brazen with his statements of "I know what I am doing and can stop but I don't want to I am not bored with this yet".

TBH I know I haveposted on here numerous times about his behaviour and it has appeared I have not listened to advice but I have taken all on board, tried all the different methods suggested, and taken away from the threads that sometimes I over react. Yesterday I did not I really kept a calm head.

Even I'm not having a go, not even suggesting that being defensive is a bad thing. Someone complained that you came on, asked for advice and then were defending what you were already doing. I just wanted to disagree with that.

Well since he has come home he is being a good boy, he has come in, offered to make me a coffee offered to help with dinner, has unloaded the dishwasher (without being asked) oh and chased me with a bag of frozen peas....we are now watching last nights Dr Who which I recorded.

my daughter spoke to me in outragous vitriolic tones once far and away above what i would consider the normal boundries of teen angst.

i calmly walked into the kitched and got a glass of water.

i then poured the water over her head and told her to stop being ridiculous.

I am alpha female. MY children behave accordingly becuase i do.

The way you have described your son he sounds very calculated. How very patient you are.

the phone isn't needed BTW plenty of children manage without them. I hope there are ongoing sanctions.

You're doing a PHD in avoidant behaviour aren't you? We're contributing to a thesis here, aren't we?

Every solution given will throw up another tangent. You must be on 20 000 words by now surely?

i couldn't continue with a normal relationship the day after this happened. Not unless the child came to me and pointedly apologised. I would not be laughing with frozen peas that's for sure. He would know the extent of my anger at being physically attacked.

Custardo Did you really pour water over her head?? I bet that shocked her into stopping!!! He can be very calculated and thats the bit i don't understand...I am straight forward and say things as they are...

I let him have the phone for my peace of mind. I like to know he is where he should be when he should be iyswim? but as I say thats for my benefit not his.

Hobbgoblin Oh if only!

custardo see this is where I go wrong I can't carry it over. and thats where he gets away with things because Friday is dealt with in as much as it was 3 days ago and I don't know how to carry it over. when yesterday he was good and today has been as well. I forgive too easily.

shineon I have to say I do wonder to what extent the breakup did affect him because he was not even 2 years old. This is why even though he keeps bringing the reasons for his behaviour back to his father I have a hard time believing it.

You are all right, I have got to take a stand, and step up the consequences/boiundaries. I know it is not going to be easy and I know there is a lot of mistakes to undo...BUT I am strong enough to do this and he is able enough for it to work.

Yes I am sure there are no special needs as when this first started back when he was 3 I went everywhere and again when he was 6 and then 7 and then 9 and now again.

So yes I have got to get the control back.

Custy - I would love to do that to mine sometimes.

How would you know he is where he tells you he is Maybe he'll tell you what you want to hear. Are you certain he should have come home on Friday - or is that purely based on what he said. Did you check ? He is still a child - stop treating him like an equal. You ar ehis parent and somethimes that means you cnanot be his best friend or allow yourself to be his punchbag. He gets respect and the trappings he desires when he has earned it not just because he demands it or makes you think he needs it. SN or not he needs help with his anger and control issues and you need to pratcical support to help him.

My upbringing was pretty much the same as Shiney details her way of bringing up her children. I am probably the same with my dd, slightly less harsh with her (than my parents - not you Shiney you hard faced caaaaaw!), she's nearly 5, but she and I know there are boundaries and when I say 'enough' it is enough.

Weirdly I don't know how she knows or what would happen exactly if she didn't stop, but there is definitely a boundary there that does not get crossed. I do not swear or shout, I do however have a serious voice, ahem.

Some things I don't care about - her knocking things over accidently or being messy around the house etc (probably because my parents were hot on this and I dont want her to grow up precious over 'things')but certain things - manners, sharing, non interrupting etc etc are non negotiable and she knows this.

I am aware that she's only 5 and things could be totally different when she's older but I do believe that you lay the foundations when they are young.

BTW - My exH left when she was about 15months. She sees him once every 6 weeks, he pays no maintenance, hes a twat. As Shiney says, I don't think it effects her at all, she seems very content with me and my DP her step father.

Not quite sure what use my ramblings are to you... sorry

LIZS I like to know he is at school and the school would contact me if he wasn't. I also like the fact that if he needed to contact me in an emergency he always has his mobile to rely on...again this is for my peace of mind not his.
Yes the whole school were in and out on friday but varying times through the day.
I did say I Used to treat him as an equal but don't anymore.

The CP and I spoke a lot about him needing help with self control and he is coming back next wednesday to speak to me after he has spoken to others in the dept he works.
He is also going to be talking to ds1 next week alone. I am going to be out of the room....

Defluff DS1 was always content he was misbehaving at 3 like all children but as he has got older things have got worse.

Oh great - give me something to look forward to

I've read a few of your threads before and the thing that strikes me (purely from reading the snippets about your life) is - you seem to treat the whole thing like a bit of a game and therefore it's no wonder your son does.

You never actually sound as though you are at breaking point. This op reads to me more 'can you believe how naughty he is?! not 'i cannot believe the situation i'm in' and you don't seem to REALLY take much responsibility for your part in it - more than lipservice 'i know i shouldn't have held the phone up' (like a game btw) but the undertone is always that you feel the circumstances are mitigating - he'd pushed you too far etc so it's not really your fault.

Sorry if i'm way off but, like i said, just going by what you've described that is the impression i've got. Ignore it if you think i'm full of BS or think on it if you think there could be an element of truth to what i say!

"The ones I didn't agree with were having a day out and if he did not do as he was asked leaving him indoors alone while the rest of us go, to me that would make him feel he is not wanted, which is not what i want to do."

Sorry I think the CP is right on this one. You feel guilty about him maybe feeling not wanted - so he gets the treat even if he does not deserve it. I would be explaining very clearly that you don't want to leave him behind, but you will do so, and continue to do so if his behaviour is poor.

But you are still treating him like an equal - he has (or had) a phone, a laptop etc and responsibility to let you know he is ok, chooses what he wants to watch and when, when to be good and when not. Taking the things away is a start but that isn't how a typical 11 yr old is treated.

Yes you forgive too easily, your actions contradict your brave words. He simply gets way too much leeway, which enables him to manipulate the situation, that is the game. He may believe he is in control of his actions and can stop because he thinks that is what you expect and wnat, and because he gets what he wants in the end (a trip out however dull he claims it to be , to see Dr Who), despite behaving so badly, why should he feel the need to change.

But this thread is going round in circles , you know what you need to do, you cannot deal with this alone and need a rl objective pov, here you just seem cherry pick the advice and have an answer to every suggestion.

Just to make a point, I do not find it funny. Sometimes I put LOL because otherwise I would be crying and I have done enough of that.

I know i have screwed up and I am doing my best to rectify the mistakes I have made. I am not taking this whole situation lightly as much as it may come across that way. The problem is probably behind the way I write things.

I know that I have a limited time to get things sorted and thats why whilst reading all the postings, I have taken notes as such and kept a record of the ideas, opinions and suggestions.

I honestly wish that just one of you who think I am taking this as a joke could spend a day in my life and see just how easily ds1 tips over the slightest thing.

I am taking it all in and that is why I have tried to reply to each person as they have posted something.

I have taken his laptop but he has his phone when he goes out the door and hands it back when he comes in. I have told him I won't top it up but he has to earn that money. He can still text me though.

The only reason I won't leave him behind if we go for a family day out is because I would rather none of us went than leave an 11 yr old to fend for themselves for an entire day. I cannot see how this would make him feel wanted, but imo i think it would make him feel unwanted, I could be wrong.

You have to get over this making him feel wanted thing. He is wanted, you tell him you love him, give him your atention etc. He is taking your guilt and beating you with it.

Hijack- Shine - ok thanks but signed off due to the spd. My parents are taking me arouund Merryhill today in a wheelchair - the shame. How are you?

Is there a way of talking on mumsnet without having to hijack? Sorry TLES.

Morning all

well last night i sat up and did a lot of thinking.

I have got to stop feeling guilty, and stop pandering to him. Now in thoery this is very easy I know it is going to be the start of a better life for us all but the thought of the troubles which will crop up along the way are quite daunting. I need to stay strong and hold myself together to get this dealt with.

I know it can seem so easy to know what to do but much harder to actually do it and stick to it.

Try focusing on way day at a time, today I will not give in to him, he has a good life, I have nothing to feel guilty about. Today I will not tread on eggshells around him.

This evening he did not want to do what I asked moaning that he was tired and needed to go to bed, it was 8pm so i said ok then off you go put him in his room with no lights no laptop or anything else and shut his door...

and i did not feel guilty.

ok now i sound sad for telling you lol