What would YOU do in this situation?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Ok so yesterday ds1 was home early from school. I had planned to take ds1 and ds2 to the indoor play. I asked ds1 to help me get things sorted out and for him to pick the 3 things off the floor that needed picking up. He said no and immediatly started shouting at me.

I ignored him but he would not let up.
This went on from 10am until 7pm last night. I did not shout at him or raise to the bait in any way other than to say "If you don't do as I ask I will take one of your toys away" which i ended up doing.

He then started screaming and shouting even louder so I took his mobile phone away. I had it in my hand and he went to grab it. Obviously being bigger than him I just stood up and he repeatedly jumped up grabbing my arm, I still never reacted - it took a lot not to I will admit.

After 25 minutes of him trying to grab his phone he went to hit me at which point I grabbed his arm and told him if he did hit me not only would I slap him I would be calling the police.

I know I was wrong to threaten to slap him, even though I did not shout it was wrong.

I took his phone and hid it because otherwise he would have kept taking it back.

When i came back in the living room he was going right into one throwing all the clothes (off washing airer) onto the floor, DS2's toys everywhere, he shoved ds2 over, and then grabbed the book ds2 had been playing with (an interactive one) and started slamming it into the ground until it broke.

DS2 kept trying to get it to work and saying "oh bwoke" he is just 2 yrs old. today he keeps looking for it.

What would you do in this situation? I am amazed at myself that I kept a cool calm head yesterday, but today he wants to be my best friend and he seems to have forgotten what happened yesterday. He is 11 BTW. Has no SN, has been seeing a child psychologist for the last 5 months who now agrees that to DS1 this is a game. He has spoken to him in great length and DS1 is so brazen with his statements of "I know what I am doing and can stop but I don't want to I am not bored with this yet".

TBH I know I haveposted on here numerous times about his behaviour and it has appeared I have not listened to advice but I have taken all on board, tried all the different methods suggested, and taken away from the threads that sometimes I over react. Yesterday I did not I really kept a calm head.

I agree with TheFallenMadonna you need to ask for strategies to manage and change ds's behaviour and to change your own.

I always stick to my word even on those occasions when I've said something and then wish I hadn't but my dc do know that I mean what I say and if that's being put in the back garden in the rain & cold to do a time out because they were kicking the door then it will happen.......

It is so much easier to go through this when they are younger I think it will take a long time for you to establish yourself as his parent and that you are in charge. You need to consistently put your foot down in cool & calm way but really the psych is the one who should be telling you what approach to take.

I think you need therapy/counselling to help you apply consistent authoritative parenting and give you the confidence and strategies you need. From reading the thread it seems to me that he is out of control, desperate for you to parent him, and pushing ever harder to get something you cannot give at the moment and need help to manage.

Yes, I would agree that you need some kind of counselling or parenting support as well. Parents can access that through our school. Might that be a possibility?

What's are the consistent behaviour approaches you and dp have taken with ds1?

TFM I have tried many times over the last few months BUT when he comes tomorrow, ds1 will be at school still so I will be able to talk to him properly.

And you didn't answer my question about the school?

Because you said that we 'all' had told you to post the video of him on facebook, when that wasn't the case at all. Really bad advice IMO in fact. You need someone who a) knows you and him, and b) knows what they're talking about.

Good luck TLE . Lay it all out for him. Get the help you both need.

''He has his fathers phone number and email. he also has his address and has tried to contact him many times. no reply to me means no interest but to ds1 it means something else to be angry at me about.''

you know he is well aware that his father has no interest in him though yes? you know he is pushing you to see if your love is conditional too yes?

does the psych address these issues with you and him or just strategies to react to the behaviour he presents?

TLES you must no longer accept his excuse of his father leaving. you need to tell him straight that you will not accept it and that he must take responsibility for his actions, and he must apologise for them.

wrt to your parenting skills, i believe both you and dp should attend a parenting class and before you say you have already done it or there is no one to babysit ds2 or there is nothing on nearby, stop. do it again, it will refresh things you have forgotten. you and dp dont have to go together, arrange to go on separate nights. and distance would be no barrier if it was my son. your son needs you to step up to the plate and dop this for him.

and yes you are making excuses. regardless of who bought the laptop, you, as his parent has the authority to remove it. even if you dont sell it. give it back to your brother for safekeeping/to sell on/keep for himself. and tell him why. it would be great if you could get your bro to back you up with ds. it would let ds see that this isnt a personal attack on him , but that everyone feels the same about his behaviour.

you need to make a decision now about whether this is going to stop right now, which means putting in place all the advice you have been given here and seeking outside help, or whether its going to keep going in the same pattern where eventually you will have a son who is abusing you all, teaching your younger ds how to get round you, srewing up his education, getting involved in all sorts of trouble with the police and perhaps far worse.

stop making excuses and do what your son needs you to do. this isnt something that he's doing to you, this is something you are allowing to happen to you.

Cargirl that is the problem previously I have always given in in some way. whether it be i say "You can't watch Dr Who tonight" and then when he went to bed letting him watch it on DVD as opposed to that nights episode. Or If you use all your credit on your mobile I won't top it up, well then I normally do. So in that sense i give him his own way.

But, and this is when things got worse, a few weeks ago when he went off on one lecturing me and being bloody rude i took a toy away and he has not got it back, and I have started to continue this.

Hullygully I asked the CP about counselling the last time he was here, and shall be asking him again. Because I know it would be beneficialto myself to have the confidence to deal with these situations.

TFM If i get no joy with the CP, I will go back to my GP. DS1 has only just started at this school a week ago so I want to let him get established before i go to them.

Heated I have to say DP is stronger than me when it comes to being consistent. Although as I said I am getting better, I am sticking more to my decisions. Because lets face it, I cannot keep taking responsibilty for his fathers actions..he decided he wanted nothing to do with ds1 without any input from me, and I have decided I am not taking the flak for it any longer...now just to make consequences for his actions stick.

TFM, you are right that was bad typing on my part. I was mixing all posts up in one. Sorry that was not intended!

I am hoping that tomorrow will be an eye opener for the CPsych because without ds1 here it will be a lot easier to talk.

RuddyNorah Yes I know he is trying to see if my love is conditional, I just would have thought that in 8 years of this he would realise I am not going anywhere lol...ok probably inappropriate to laugh. The psych basically said to ds1 "You have tried, your mum has tried for you, and he is still not making contact what does that tell you" ds1 replied "that he probably doesn't want to talk to mummy and has no credit to call or text me".

Booyhoo That is what we told him yesterday and again today. I agree about Parenting classes, and will be looking into them tomorrow morning.....its about time things were dealt with.

Heated what was your question about school? I answered 2 about it and can only imagine i missed yours sorry.

Well that is why his behaviour has got worse because you've started sticking to what you've said, he must be in shock and trying every tactic in the book to start getting his own way again.

Don't you just LOVE being a parent??

I've had 3 days of dd4 being very difficult and whiney, dh is close to throttling her.............

SOCD And I thankyou for your previous advice. Really I do, I have kept all bits that I felt would work all saved in a file on my laptop, not just yours but everyones.

CarGirl lol being a parent has its good points bad points and then the bits you wish you could hide from lol.

Can I just say you have been very gracious on here. I think posters, including myself, have been rather stern out of worry: a teenage boy who hits his mother is behaviour so beyond the pale that something urgent has to be done, after all, in no time at all he will be bigger than you. And as another poster said, what will his future relationships with women be like if he thinks he can treat them like this?

My previous question was do you have wider family and a good relationship with his school, so the community helps parent the child?

At my Dad's school they brought the whole wider family in, including formidable grandmother, boy's teachers & school police officer together in partnership to deal with a 13yr old who beats up his mother. The head receives emailed reports every week about him. Are your school approachable, LES?

Heated I understand the worry, I am worried myself. for DS1, ds2 and for dp and I.

I am extremely concerned about his future relationships with women especially as his father was extremely violent towards me. I really hope this doesn't happen with ds1.

I have my mum and sister but my sister has her 2 sons to deal with and mum cares for my partially sighted brother. She does all she can to help though as does my sister.

As for his school he has only just started a week ago and I am not sure how approachable they are yet. But I shall give it a couple of weeks and see.

should say I am not making excuses with regard to mum and sister, just said it as it is.

Am off to bed now will be back in the morning.

yes you aren't 'going anywhere' but unconditional love isn't just about that. or rather demonstrating unconditional love.

i don't think it's helpful for your CP to be getting your ds to say his dad is not interested. ''The psych basically said to ds1 "You have tried, your mum has tried for you, and he is still not making contact what does that tell you" '' he needs to learn how to accept this and move on or he'll never be able to control his anger. this is what you CP should be working on. so, ok, he knows his dad doesn't want him. he needs to know how to deal with this. it's a pretty shitty thing for him to have to say out loud let alone how to get his head round.

Have you at any stage tried to connect with him emotionally, find out why he is angry with you and what you can do about that. If he was trying to tell you something and you were trying to be patient but also ignoring his tantrum for 9 hours, that could well have been antagonising him.

Can't believe the psychologist said that to your ds! He needs counselled over his feelings about his dad and he also needs to learn how to cope with these feelings.

But you must be very careful not to give in to your ds or let him away with his behaviour just because his dad wants no contact, he has to learn that although it's sad for him not to know his father, it does not give him the right or the excuse to behave like he does.

You think you are doing the right thing by ignoring him, but really you fed it for 9 hours simply by being in the same room as him giving him an audience.

You may think you were ignoring him but he was getting what he wanted from the situation, him grabbing at the phone and you trying to hold it away is giving him exactly what he is looking for.

He should be removed from you when he is this sort of mood, no attention what so ever. If that means locking the door so be it. Putting him in his room 25 times is ridiculous. You say he's playing games but you are the one playing them with him.

Tell him that you will speak to him only when he his calm, not before. Do not enter into conversation or allow debate. This is the way it is.

When he is calm then you go to him and talk about what the matter is and how he feels.

It doesn't matter what is wrong with him or why he is having the tantrum , you will only find out once he's calmed down and is not violent or abusive.

You must be strong and firm (but kind too) and most importantly consistent.

He's old enough to know exactly what works and what doesn't. He has way to much control and most importantly he knows it.

And if it were my child I would take the numbers away from him (though I realise it's not possible now really), at his age he shouldn't be trying to contact a father who wants nothing to do with him. That's just setting him up for sadness and rejection. It should go through you or not at all.

I realise it is hell for you but it can be changed.
Ask the psychologist exactly what he plans to do in order to help your family.

And I'm sorry if I sound dictating, but you probably aren't aware of how you may behave with him.
If you have a child that is likely to kick off at the slightest thing you are probably walking on egg shells around him and giving in to him in little ways to try and head off a tantrum. And he will have picked up on this and it has put him in control of you.

You must take that control back, he is 11.

He doesn't need a mobile phone, at 11 does he not know when he's supposed to be in school?
Do schools do that now? Do they send them home without any warning to the parent at 11?!

And he doesn't need a laptop, if he's misbehaving like that the laptop is out of the house if he needs to do research he can go to the library and do it there. If he wants it back he has to earn it through reward, like the mobile phone.

He has no incentive to change his behaviour because in the end he gets his own way.

a good idea is to write down all the issues and all your questions for the cp. that way nothing is missed out and he can see clearly what needs addressing.

actually, get ds to do this aswell. even if its just for you to show the cp for him. it might give you a good insight into how he's feeling.

RuddyNorah He knows I love him, will do anything for him, give him all the attention he wants/needs as an 11 yr old. Sadly when I post on here it is normally when he has done something wrong and therefore it comes across as I am always upset/angry at him when I am not.

I agree that that was not the right thing for CP to do and I did tell him that, I told him I felt this would upset ds1 more. CP disagreed and said it was the first step in getting him to believe the truth and stop using this as the reason for his anger.

When he is calm and happy he will on the odd occassion bring his father up and say things like "I am not bothered about him I have my dad"

Mudandmayhem We are connected emotionally. He just has these outrages. But as I said above when he is calm he can tell me what is bothering him and it is always 1 of 2 things his father or the fact that he doesn't see why he should do anything I tell him to do. He blames me for his father leaving and it seems nothing is getting through to him that it was not my fault entirely. Although he says he remembers the police taking him away.

Undomestichousewife This is initially why I enlisted the help of him via the GP.
I never thought of ignoring him as feeding the tantrum but it makes sense that it is going to fire him up more.

I have never locked his door with him in his room, but tbh thats because I thought it was a bad idea....But there is no harm that he can do in his own room really.

I have deleted his fathers number from his phone and all the text messages, I have also rremoved his laptop priviledges for everything but school work.

The CP is coming today at 4.15 while DS1 is still at school because I told him this morning that I want to talk to him without ds1 there. It is going to be my only chance of getting over to this man that if he is only going to come and sit here, feeding, as far as I am concerned, ds1's anger/frustration etc then he is not going to be doing any good. because he has not so far.

I am walking on egg shells and I hate it, which is why having thought myself and having read all the posts on this thread, I am going to make a stand and do something about it.

He has his phone for contacting me for my peace of mind tbh. I feel better knowing he can contact me in an emergency if he needs to. And yes his school sent him home on friday and I had no idea until he called. I would assume that letters went out the week before he started.

Booyhoo I will ask him to do that between today and when the CP comes again as I never read this message until just a while ago.

This morning we started off on a good footing. He got up when I called him and after a few minutes apologised and admitting to looking at things he shouldn't have on his laptop. He also said he understood why it has been taken away. He left here for school in a very good mood. So fingers crossed it will carry on to this evening.