Anyone up for a How To Talk thread? Fed up of shouting...

[EffiePerine]

I read How To Talk ages ago and thought blithely that I would apply it to DS1 as he got older, but after months of shouting and nagging and hauling him off stuff and away from stuff and declaring 'PUT THAT DOWN OR WE WILL GO HOME NOW, NOW DS1, GET INTO YOUR BUGGY WHY DO YOU NEVER LISTEN TO ME' I thought I was due a recap.

There's so much here that I need to go through it methodically. Anyone else up for a mini boot camp?

So ch 1 is helping children to deal with their feelings:

listen with full attention
acknowledge their feelings
give their feelings a name
give them their wishes in fantasy

I may be more of a lurker than a poster - depends what kind of day i've had, or issues i've had to deal with, i suppose - but would love to join what looks like a really supportive and helpful thread.

I have 2 ds - 4.1 and 1.10 and am in 2nd trimester of 3rd pg.

I started off with all the patience in the world but have slowly regressed to being very shouty indeed and all that wonderful patience and calmness that friends used to comment on in envious awe has almost totally disappeared.

ds1 wasn't ever too bad, but on reaching 3, coupled with ds2 being much more challenging, i find it difficult cope without barking orders or making threats or shouting them down. Like most of you, this is something I never imagined my parenting skills would become, and I often end up in tears about it after a particularly tough day.

I bought the book last Easter and gave it a cursory glance, putting into practice (for a while) those bits that seemed promising - like the wishes/fantasies - and these did appear to work with ds1.

My problem is that I buy these books wanting instant results or the perfect solution to our individual 'problems' and when I see that it requires some effort and perseverence the books get relegated back to the bookcase. With this thread and the support it offers, I hope to follow HTT through and, at times, to be able to offer some experiences and advice.

Add thread to threads im onand watching list.

Will be back later when i've read the whole thread. Hoping it makes me feel better in that ds1 is just a normal 3yr old and i'm not really the crappest mother from planet shoutalot

Can I lurk, please? I have had 2 days this week where I have felt like crying from the draining experience of dealing with a 2.6yo ds.

I noticed yesterday that when I shout at him (when the whinging won't stop and my nerves are on edge), he just shouts "raaaarrrr" back at me with a red face. So, it seems, I've taught him to shout. Last night in tears to dh, I thought I was the only one that felt like this and was The Original Crap Mummy (and not the Yunmmy Super version Ialways wanted to be). Now I have a book to buy and read (which I love...) and the knowledge that other mummies get shouty too.

Will order books and report back! Thank you!

Any HTT solutions for a roaring 4 year old?

It's been going on for a while now, on and off, but my 4 year old ds has this thing about roaring very loudly in the faces of either ds2 or the dog!! It makes ds2 (1.11) cry and the dog run off cowering.

It's particularly bad at the moment, mainly, I think, because I seem to be on ds1's case a lot at the moment about not bothering ds2 constantly.

I've tried to ask him nicely to stop doing it, I've shouted at him to stop doing it, i've sent him to his room if he doesn't stop doing it and yesterday, after several incidents of either being rough with ds2 or
roaring at ds2/dog, I ended up (after threatening I'd do this if it didn't stop) taking away his favourite toy of the moment and 'putting it in the bin' (I didn't really...it's just hidden away). Cue very very upset little boy and very guilty-feeling mummy.

How can I tackle this with a HTT approach?

how is it all going guys?
any sucesses? are you calmer?
It does work! keep going

why does he roar mrs mc D?

My 4 year old used to do that when he was angry Mrsmcdreamy - it stopped of its own accord though. I think the HTT approach would be asking him to draw how cross he was instead maybe? That works well in my house.

TBH VietnameseCobbler, I'm not sure. I think it's just that he's found a way to wind me and his brother up.

It started when ds2 was learning to say animal noises and would roar when he saw a lion, for example, but ds1 would then always roar back, louder and fiercer.

Thinking back, when ds2 would roar on seeing a lion etc, myself or dh would praise him (he's been v slow speech-wise) and when ds1 returned roar, inevitably louder and much more aggressively, again and again, we would tell him to stop it. So it's always had a negative association for him and is probably just an attention seeking act.

Giantkatestacks - he does also roar, in a slightly different way, when he's angry or frustrated. Scenario for that often goes like this:

ds1: I don't want to wear my jumper.
Mum: It's cold outside, you can take it off when you get to pre-school.
ds1: Uuuuurrrrggggghhhhhhhhh (v loud!)

At this point, I do try the HTT 'I can see you're angry. Wouldn't it be nice if it was a lovely sunny day and none of us would have to wear jumpers.......' and that works fine and we move on.

It's just the blatant attention-seeking listnessness that leads to the unprompted roaring at his brother that I don't know how to deal with.

Canella: you weren't being ignored! I often don't get the chance to post at the weekends.

DS1 is 2.9 and most of what you say is pretty familiar. We've had periods of deliberate weeing, what I did (last week) was to put him in pull-ups for a few days to give us both a break *not the recommended approach). I think Filly is right in that they aren't trying to be naughty at this age, they're exploring and pushing and pushing to seewhat will happen.

MrsM - Roaring: I can see that it might be a fun thing to do, can you try a rule of no roaring (or shouting/screaming) in the house but make some time every day to go to the park/out in the garden where they can make as much noise as they like? DS1 loves screeching and shouting and I have no prob with him doing so in the wide open spaces

Yes, thanks Effie. Funnily enough, I started the 'no roaring rule' earlier today (gosh, it all seems so ridiculous when I see myself writing all this, and I wonder if i'm being slightly over the top!) and so far it's working...

I'm quite happy with the noise outside of the house. My issue is only when it's done blatantly in someone's face & that's also only when it causes upset.

We'll see how the new rule works! Thanks everyone.

Hmm, not sure I've quite got the hang of this grant their wish in fantasy type thing.
On the way home from toddler group going past shop.

Ds1 - "I want a lolly"
Me - "No it's nearly lunch time and you don't get anything asking like that"
Ds1 (starting to get annoyed) "I would like a lolly now, PLEASE"
Me (rising to the challenge "Ooo I bet you would like a hundred lollies and......."
Ds1 (cutting me short) "No! i only want ONE lolly" with expression and frown on his face as if to say "stupid woman, why do i need 100 lollies"

Fortunately lolly shop was unexpectedly closed so instead we laughed at the silly shop and got home without much trouble.

can I join late?

I was just logging on to search for 'shouting' and this thread was at the top of active convos - can I join you? We're really struggling at the moment. At the root of it is our concerns about money (DP unemployed, I'm working f/t from home) but it's all getting on top of us a bit, I'm not sleeping well and ended up snapping at DS1 yesterday (in my defence, he was pulling ds2 off a sofa backwards by a scarf round ds2's neck), unfortunately not for the first time. Have read How to Talk, but will dig out my copy again and turn over a new leaf.

Thanks for starting the thread. And good to know it's not just me...

Dlamis - lol at your DS1! My DS1 is very good at taking the wind out of my sails like that - he can be quite crushing sometimes when I am trying to be Mary Poppins .

How's it going, HTTalkers???

I am working my through. I get some bits, and definately trying to be more understanding of feelings, but just ready chapter about finding alternatives and realising this will take some work! I think that some bits are maybe more appropriate to older children than my ds (2.6) but am going to consolidate the points from each chapter at the end and put them on a fidge to help me remember.

Told dh about the lolly incident and he suggested i should've moved onto size and colour etc rather than quantity so will save that idea for next time.

Nearly had another tantrum outside the post office when i was picking up a parcel. Ds1 had seen some toy tractors, but i had to explain to him i had no money (i deliberately don't take any sometimes so i can't give in to him!). In the end i said "I wish i could magic you some out of thin air and clicked my fingers" Obviously my magic money fingers didn't worked so ds had to try his. His didn't work either so we laughed at our silly magic fingers and went home, tractors all forgoten about. :D

Have finally shelled out for my own copy, so I can take the other one baqck to the library . And I have written crib notes on post-its round the kitchen

• who were you before? DS2 is 6 mo so we have a similar age gap

I too worry about repeating past mistakes - I find I'm happy to go with the flow while they're babies but get rather concerned once we're at the character-shaping age.

Oops DS2 just woken up, better go!

my dd is 2.2 but is bright enough to understand how to wind up mummy. How do you handle the total ignoring and continuing to do said thing? For example, I have swine flu at the mo and dd has not grown out of putting everything in her mouth. I have tried no dd, dirty, yucky, no, not in our mouths, out please etc etc. But now it is just seen as a challenge. Any ideas? I know she picks up more bugs as she licks everything/chews stuff her and at nursery. I just end up removing the object and shouting and she just goes and stuffs something else in?

Sitting and eating is a nightmare (no interest in food). Bath is hideous, hair washing is the total screaming end of the world and everything requires tears apparently.

I shout too much. Must try to find the book.

Wow leningrad, that's great! I find the fantasy bit a bit weird TBH but I guess it is another distraction technique.

DD is only just two so I'm not sure the techniques work on her at the moment, but I am trying the 'giving information' thing, as she is inclined to cope what we say and I am trying to create mantra's for her e.g. water stays in the bath, no throwing food on the floor.

It's very hard to stay calm when it is 6.30am and she is hitting you with a book she wants to read and you have tonisilitis so reading hurts - plus it's 6.30 in the morning!