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Original poster

Anyone up for a How To Talk thread? Fed up of shouting...

165 replies

EffiePerine · 29/06/2009 20:24

I read How To Talk ages ago and thought blithely that I would apply it to DS1 as he got older, but after months of shouting and nagging and hauling him off stuff and away from stuff and declaring 'PUT THAT DOWN OR WE WILL GO HOME NOW, NOW DS1, GET INTO YOUR BUGGY WHY DO YOU NEVER LISTEN TO ME' I thought I was due a recap.

There's so much here that I need to go through it methodically. Anyone else up for a mini boot camp?

So ch 1 is helping children to deal with their feelings:

listen with full attention
acknowledge their feelings
give their feelings a name
give them their wishes in fantasy

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MogTheForgetfulCat · 02/07/2009 21:35

I read this book and really liked it, and have been trying v hard to put it into practice, because things were getting far too shouty and I just hated it, it's not the way i want to be with my boys...

I found the "wishes in fantasy" thing didn't work quite as quickly or smoothly as the book implied - but as someone else said earlier, if you really get into it, it helps quite a bit.

FWIW, I've just had my first truly lovely day with DS1 (3.4) and DS2 (1.4) for a while - which is a bit to admit to... I tried to really listen to DS1 and talk to him properly rather than just issuing instructions. And I played properly with him (building blocks) for 20-30 minutes after breakfast, after which he brushed his teeth and got dressed like a lamb, which is usually one of our worst flashpoints.

Also, DH and I have decided to try to reduce our house rules to just 2 - (1) Be kind and gentle (DS1 is a shover - sigh) and (2) Speak nicely (he tends to scream when angry, and it often riles me and I shout back ). I think we were trying to impose too many restrictions on him, and he was getting frustrated. And we thought that those 2 rules actually encompass quite a lot, being quite broad - that's the theory, anyway... And obviously they apply to all of us - they're on the fridge in magnetic letters (bit twee, I know) in the hope that they will sink in to my thick skull.

Trying not to get too excited, but really hoping we can all turn a corner. Will watch thread with interest!

uselessevilbitchmother · 02/07/2009 21:40

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DidEinsteinsMum · 02/07/2009 21:59

how much sleep are you getting uvbm? i shouted at ds in hospital this week. He is incapable of following any instructions at mo and he wouldnt sit in area needed to actually be seen by specialist. (if you dont come when called you dont get seen and they dont hunt for you- we'd waited 3mnths for appt) Sleep helps. Think will watch and consider if it can be addapted to ds. he is an unusual case. (Webster stratton lady said so )

uselessevilbitchmother · 02/07/2009 22:08

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MogTheForgetfulCat · 02/07/2009 22:11

uebm - sorry if any of this sounds way off, patronising etc - not meant to, but short on time and don't have time to vet typing for insensitivity etc...

You sound so down - please consider seeing your GP and asking for whatever help is available. I can't imagine having to carry on feeling as you do. I recognise the cycle of shout/anger, crippling guilt and weeping, and then feeling the irritation surge up again. I don't know what the answer is, but I have sought help dealing with my DS1 before and would do so again if things got very bad.

If your DS has to have regular check ups at hosp, presumably he has an ongoing condition? Any help available with that? Support groups?

It's so tough being a parent - please try not to beat yourself up. I am the queen of that, and it really doesn't help. Hope things improve soon.

MogTheForgetfulCat · 02/07/2009 22:13

friend of mine has CBT from trainee psychotherapist - cheaper (not sure how much) but obv therapist not v experienced. But maybe better than nothing?

DidEinsteinsMum · 02/07/2009 22:18

uebm - didnt mean to pry - i have wandered down your path due to severe sleep deprivation and wondered if it was the same boat. Admire your honesty and wish you smooth passage as you continue on your journey thro dealing with this.

uselessevilbitchmother · 02/07/2009 22:21

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mckenzie · 02/07/2009 22:34

thank you so much for starting this thread! I've had some hideously bad days recently (bad because I have lost my temper with the DCs, their behaviour has been trying but probably no worse than your average 4 and 8 year olds would be). I've read the thread with great interest and have been inspired to go and buy the book but then realised that I already have it!!! Bought ages and ages ago, stuck on the book shelf and forgotten. I'm off to bed now to get started on it.

Tomorrow is another day

thehouseofmirth · 02/07/2009 22:42

I'd like to join in too please. DS1 is 4 on Saturday and for the first 3 years of his life I was patience and tolerance personified. His behaviour has become very irritating/challenging over the past year and although some of it may be attributable (is that a word btw?) to his age, starting nursery and the arrival 4 months ago of DS2, I know that really it's largely down to me (kickstarted by pregnancy and money worries) and that my behaviour is fuelling his.

I've had the book for ages and have read bits though sometimes I have felt DS has just been a bit too young for it.

Another good read is Playful Parenting by Lawrence J Cohen

uselessevilbitchmother · 02/07/2009 22:54

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Original poster
EffiePerine · 02/07/2009 22:55

UBM: you're right about perpetuating your parents' behaviour: I find myself psrroting phrases I heard from my parents which is funny in a way, until you remember how powerless and angry they made you feel. And then you get angry and say them anyway...

because I said so
I don't care what you want, you're having...
stop shrieking/stop screaming/be quiet/calm down
it's not important

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Original poster
EffiePerine · 02/07/2009 22:57

oh and one thing I am going to try (cos I suspect the wishes thing won't work always with DS1) is writing things down: so say 'I'm writing down that DS1 wants X'

would that work?

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JackBauer · 02/07/2009 22:57

Is it worth buying the book or can I lurk and pick up tips? DD's are 3.6 and 1.10 and both very strong willed, DD2 is not verbal though she understands what I say, so how could I get it to work when she throws her mega tantrums?

uebm, I would second/third goign to your GP and asking if thewre is help available, it is good that you can see what you are doing though IYSWIM and are lookign for ways to hgelp you deal with it.

Original poster
EffiePerine · 02/07/2009 22:59

JB: would DD2 pick up on what her sister does? Also, I think one of the most important thing for me is that it changes my tone of voice as much as the words I say.

OP posts:
BeccyCat · 02/07/2009 23:05

I have the book too - does it work with a 2 yr old? I've kind of skimmed it but shelved it for later but 2 yr old is extremely tantrummy. His favourite words are "want it".

MegBusset · 02/07/2009 23:06

Hello can I join please? Haven't got the book yet -- will see if the library has it.

DS1 is 2.4 and incredibly stubborn bloodyminded independent of thought. Main battles are nappy-changing and putting on his eczema cream (both things which absolutely have to be done) -- ie moments when I need him to come here, lie down and stay bloody still. I do try to be patient but it often seems to end in me wrestling him to the ground .

JackBauer · 02/07/2009 23:08

No, that's the problem. Example from earlier, I have forewarned that it's nearly lunchtime and we have to go in, 5 min wanring, 1 min wanring, tell them to go in, DD1 goes compliantly, DD2 screeches, hits me, collapses in a dramatic heap on teh floor and then gets herself in such a state that she can't eat.
Not helped by DD1 saying 'Look, mummy, I'm good girl eating my lunch. DD2 isn't a good girl'
Which I know I never say, but still she keeps saying it.
SO if I tried 'You want to stay out all day DD2 would just want to stay out all day, surely?'

uselessevilbitchmother · 02/07/2009 23:10

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uselessevilbitchmother · 02/07/2009 23:12

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Original poster
EffiePerine · 02/07/2009 23:13

Hello Meg - you mean we both have stubborn children? . How's it going with two?

Re: age, the authors claim it's never too early or too late but then they would . As I said earlier, if it helps you keep a patient tone I think that cn have a huge difference. Really noticed it today with DS1, I lost it and shouted at him and he immediately reacted and got cross and upset.

For me the single most important thing is to listen, properly. And to respond properly rather than just carrying on.

OP posts:
JackBauer · 02/07/2009 23:16

Terrible typing, sorry!

Original poster
EffiePerine · 02/07/2009 23:21

Btw JB, can you make any sense of my vague posts on chs 1 and 2 (feelings and cooperation) or do you want me to copy bits out summarise? Am happy to do so tho I prob need to go to bed at some point so may be tomorrow

OP posts:
MegBusset · 02/07/2009 23:22

Yes, he has a steroid cream so he gets even more cross when I don't let him hold the tube. (I do let him hold the non-steroidal emollient and subsequently all my clothing is very well-moisturised.)

Two is lovely most of the time (it helps that DS2 is the most laidback baby ever) but bedtime is a real flash point. DS1 doesn't want to get out of the bath, then runs around like a maniac, occasionally wees on the bedroom floor, and (his latest maddening habit) bounces on the bed while I try to persuade him to get creamed/nappy on/into sleeping bag. Meanwhile DS2 is often working up to cry as he still wants to cluster-feed just before his bedtime.

Then comes storytime. DS1 gets hysterical if DS2 doesn't lie down next to him for bedtime stories. Very sweet, but DS2 hates lying down on the bed and screams as soon as you put him down. So I have one or the other (sometimes both) crying at me. This is all at the end of a long day of looking after them both, and my patience is at its thinnest, so I do sometimes get snappy.

penona · 02/07/2009 23:25

Hello am just marking my spot on here. Sounds like exactly the place I should be, have 2.1yr old twins so life is getting very shouty indeed as they get into incredible mischief. Have DD who is quite well behaved but gets easily upset and angry and a much calmer DS who frankly ignores whatever I say and carries on regardless.
I am liking some of the early ideas, have not heard of this book but might have to invest! Some times in the month I am just hideous awful horrid mother, other times all serene and calm. Poor kids.

Was interested in someone's comment about mum being out of control = children feeling insecure. What's the thinking behind that? My DD has been v clingy recently since I totally lost it over a yogurt hurling episode a week ago. Wondering if that's why?