Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Anyone up for a How To Talk thread? Fed up of shouting...

165 replies

EffiePerine · 29/06/2009 20:24

I read How To Talk ages ago and thought blithely that I would apply it to DS1 as he got older, but after months of shouting and nagging and hauling him off stuff and away from stuff and declaring 'PUT THAT DOWN OR WE WILL GO HOME NOW, NOW DS1, GET INTO YOUR BUGGY WHY DO YOU NEVER LISTEN TO ME' I thought I was due a recap.

There's so much here that I need to go through it methodically. Anyone else up for a mini boot camp?

So ch 1 is helping children to deal with their feelings:

listen with full attention
acknowledge their feelings
give their feelings a name
give them their wishes in fantasy

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
ImOverHere · 30/06/2009 10:05

I bought the book on Amazon yesterday so will join in if I can. My DD is 3.8 and has always been a challenge but lately we have gone from whinging (still there but not as bad) to straight out sodding defiance and it is DRIVING ME MAD!

Like some of you I find the only time she listens is if I shout and then she shouts at me for shouting and we completely miss the point of why she was shouted at. It is all so hard work all the time. I know that she can be brilliant and funny and loving and bright and chirpy, but tbh I've lost sight of that a bit lately because it is getting to me. I've got 4mth old DS in the mix too (although he is a good baby and no bother - at the moment).

Crappy mummy I lost it with DD on Saturday and smacked her bum - we made up and I still feel bad.

I actually do the fantasy thing (didn't know that was what it was called as haven;'t read the book yet) and it does work sometimes.

mangopassionfruitshake · 30/06/2009 10:08

With the wishing thing, do you have to start before they've got too upset/ started crying, do you think? If so, we're a bit stuffed because dd is doing pre-emptive crying atm - starting before she's even explained what she wants or been told, no.

CJCregg · 30/06/2009 10:16

I'm in, too. Feel like I'm completely losing it with DS (6). He's too clever for me, twists me round his little finger ...

This morning I got cross and shouted. I decided to do a 'nice' thing (disaster) ie have breakfast in the garden, as it was such a nice morning. They (also have DD who is nearly 4) got completely carried away with this disruption to routine, and as soon as I went into the kitchen to clear up, they were off, on the trampoline, and refused to listen to me. Whole morning routine a disaster from then on. They were like a couple of puppies, running in all directions, and gaily saying 'no' when I asked them to put shoes on, have hair brushed etc.

On the way to school, I turned into a six-year-old myself and DS completely beat me at my own game . He asked if we could stop to look at something and I said 'no, we're late, we have to go' and kept walking. Then I tried to talk to them about drinking from their water bottles and the little shit started going 'la la la, I'm not listening'. I stood there like a twat, feeling utterly powerless. Then I stomped off back towards the house, saying 'OK, take yourselves to school, I'm out of here'. .

Walked back, they stood staring at me and DS said 'OK, I will'. At which point of course I had to turn round and fucking cave in. I feel such a bloody idiot. Took them to school, tried to make it up with him but he can see I'm weak, indecisive and he totally played me. I feel so pathetic. I didn't really shout, just lost it in terms of control and feel awful because I know this is what upsets kids most of all - they feel insecure if they see us being like this.

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be such a huge rant but I'm so cross with myself. Think it helped to get it out!

tinierclanger · 30/06/2009 10:22

I am going to lurk on here if that's ok. DS only 11 months but I want to try and start right. Already the 'NO!s' are feeling like hard work.

thefortbuilder · 30/06/2009 10:31

having a strawberry squeezy smoothie - managed to divert to a banana instead so very happy with that!

Chaotica · 30/06/2009 10:39

I'm going to lurk as well (don't have the book, but probably need it).

And I want a chocolate house !

funnypeculiar · 30/06/2009 10:44

I'm in - I've done this before and found it really helpful, but could do with refocusing. Don't have the book atm, though, so will rely on effie's recap til I get a copy.

Fwiw, we have found giving wishes in fantasy hugely helpful- amazingly so. For us the key was do it straight away - don't expect it to calm down a full-blown stage 3 tantrum. And go for it big stylee. "Yeah, lets eat all the chocolates in the world, I've got a million, how many do you have?"

With the dcs, I pretend I have a magic wand and magic their wishes straight up. And then get pretend-frustrated when my wand doesn't work.
With ds (5), I also do deals - "You want an ice cream - OK, I want a convertible beatle, a holiday in barbados, and some Jimmy Choos. You get me my things, then you can have icecream. What do you mean you can't??!"

LackaDAISYcal · 30/06/2009 11:01

Imoverhere, we have similar issues here. It's as if nce he gets wound up about something there is an unwritten script that we have to follow whih starts with him being sulle, whiney and ignoring me, goes through several stages of arguing back and forth and ends up with me shouting and him being sent to the time out zone.

It's how to break that cycle that is my biggest challenge.

sounds like a bad morning CJ, but we have been there and things are slowly getting better for us. I'm also trying not to be so hard on him, or critical thanks to some recent advice on here. The improvement has been vast in only a week! I'll find my thread and link it

lucasnorth · 30/06/2009 11:01

I'd like to join in too please - thanks EffiePerine for starting this thread. I too read the book a while back and started out well but have been forgetting bits over time.

DD is 2.4 and I've gradually, over the last couple of months, slipped into too much bribery and shouting. DD2 is due tomorrow and things can only get harder...

Will try and make sure I try the wishes in fantasy today. I use the 'giving the feeling a name' a bit already.

Oh, and excuse me if I disappear for a couple of weeks; will be lurking but if I'm not posting it's because the baby's arrived

EffiePerine · 30/06/2009 19:09

Hello everyone

A quick update from me: part of the problem is that I have NO TIME with DS1 and DS2 (6mo), one toilet training and the other weaning...

Well the listening thing has been hard hard work for me. I hadn't realised how little I actually listen to DS1. Most of the time is spent on me telling him what to do, nagging him for not doing it then exploding. It's get up, get dressed, eat your breakfast, eat your breakfast PROPERLY, sit at the table, don't bother your brother, go to the toilet, put your pants back on, get dressed, get dressed NOW, IF YOU AREN'T DRESSED YOU WILL STAY AT HOME AND DS2 AND I WILL LEAVE YOU BEHIND

and that's just the first bit of the morning

so I held back on the instructions (a bit) and listened like billy-o and some of it worked. A couple of things:

walking home from baby clinic (2 miles in the heat), I;d bought ice lollies for both of us and DS1 finished his first. Pet hate of mine: I can never finish anything cos DS1 wants 'a bit'

DS1: have some of Mummy's
Me: It's Mummy's lolly (I am hot and cross and I want this lolly, I have in fact reverted to being 2 myself)
DS1: Lolly! Want lolly!
Me:
DS1: WAAAAAHHHH!
Me: DS1 is cross because he wanted Mummy's lolly. And she finished it without giving him any.
DS1:
Me: would you like some juice?
DS1: OK

and in the supermarket queue:

DS1: Have lolly! (you may see a theme here, but it is HOT)
Me: You can't have one yet
DS1: WAAHHHH!
Me: (feeling a bit of an eejit) Ah, you're cross because you want your lolly now. We pay for things before we eat them, don;t we?
DS1: Yes (and no more screaming!)

We did have a meltdown over bathtime though . Lots of shouting from me and DS1 running naked all over the house...

OP posts:
EffiePerine · 30/06/2009 19:11

oh and re: tantrums, there'sa useful bit about helping children express their feelings: a popular method seems to be to get them to draw how angry they are. Or if they want sometingm write it down (a handy tip for shops)

OP posts:
leothelioness · 30/06/2009 19:21

oh I have just ordered the talk book and the siblings without rivalry too I was also recommended another book on my other thread which should show on my profile too. something about a strong willed child which also looked good.

I have an almost 3 year old ds and a 5 yrear old ds and at the moment I am at the end of my tether too. all the fighting, completely ignoring everything I say etc etc the list is endless.

HuffwardlyRudge · 30/06/2009 19:27

I find these techniques really work well with my dd. She's just 3.

She doesn't respond at all to punishment or bribes, but HTT is great for her.

I shall dig out my copy and have a re-read. Could probably do with a refresher course.

The granting their wishes in fantasy thing is brilliant with dd.

Today...
Me: Come on dd we're going to get in the car now.
Her: I don't WANT to get in the carrrrrr!
Me: It would be nice to stay at home and not have to go out, wouldn't it?
Her: Yes. And never go in the car ever again.
Me: That would be lovely!
Her: I want to go in a boat.
Me: Oh that's a good idea. Much nicer than a car. Shall we go to the shops in our boat instead?
Her: [cheerfully getting in the car] Are you the captain of this boat Mummy? Shall we be priates?

shhhh · 30/06/2009 20:06

what a lovely conversation huffwardly Wish my convo's with dd (4) went that way...

Its so hard not to be a shouty mum...

pippylongstockings · 30/06/2009 20:28

I will lurk - I have tried this book but really don't get it. Some things I can see work - granting wishes is much the same as general distraction in my book.

The things I find just do not work are things like discribe the problem.

ie rather than 'stop jumping on the sofas'
'Sofa's are not for jumping on'

My son would reply - 'Yes they are!'

Or asking children to apply reason rather than beating each other over the head.

funnypeculiar · 30/06/2009 22:25

Humm, didn't have a great day today (we were all tired and hot) but inspired to try listening tomorrow - you're right effie, parents do tend to be in talk mode...

EffiePerine · 30/06/2009 22:46

Re: boot camp, the book says to doa ch a week but a) I'll have to take it back to the lib halfway through and b) I need help on getting DS1 to DO things so I think I'll try chapters 1 and 2 together for the next few days - anyone else with me?

Ch 2 has some good stuff on cooperation getting them to do what you want - punishments and so on come later on. The basic skills are (not to be done in order, pick whichever works):

  1. Describe what you see / the problem
(the milk is out on the table)
  1. Give information (milk goes off if it's kept out of the fridge)
  1. Say it with a word (milk!)
  1. Describe how you feel (I don;t want to have to go and buy more milk)
  1. Write a note (can't think of a milk related one here!)

The idea as far as I see is to give your children the space to see the problem and solve it by themselves, rather than telling them exactly what to do the whole time. I like the one-word thing, I find myself giving a bemused DS1 long lectures on stuff rather than keeping it simple. Notes wouldn't work yet I think, but pictures might be worth a try?

In case it helps anyone, these are the main flashpoints we have during the day in getting DS1 to cooperate (DS2 is only 6 mo and doesn;t have much of a choice yet!)

Breakfast (actually all meals): sitting at the table and eating rather than charging about/playing and then screaming when food is taken away

Getting dressed

Going to the toilet on time (in the middle of toilet training, so this is work in progress)

Getting out of the house

Getting in the pushchair

Demanding stuff in shops

Getting bored in queues (fair enough)

Wanting to walk but then taking hours to get anywhere

Not screaming/jumping/bashing stuff in the house while DH is trying to work (he works from home)

Going to sleep without demanding umpteen toys and MUMMY every 5 mins

Putting all that down, I make a lot of demands on DS1. Poor sausage. Must look at ways to but down my expectations as well.

Plus I'll be working again on the listening cos I need to.

OP posts:
sybilfaulty · 30/06/2009 23:02

Brill thread Effie, thanks for starting it. I am Mrs Shouty of Shouty Street so must definitely join. I have 2 DDs of 4 and 2(rather wilful, esp in the heat) and a DS of 6 mths (a wee angel (for now))

I have been trying to listen more and like the other suggestions. No doubt the school and nursery runs will give me a chanve to try them out. Will also get book from Amazon.

giantkatestacks · 01/07/2009 12:05

Can I be in too please - am trying to apply the techniques to my 5yo ds and they do work when I apply them but sometimes (far too often) I find myself shouting instead...

What really works well for him btw is the drawing it out approach when he's cross and also showing me how cross he is by attacking a pillow because they both turn into a fun game and defuse the situation.

Have had success with the fantasy thing as well - last night he wanted 5 mins more of bedtime reading but couldnt because he'd tarted around too long getting ready for bed and so we ended up wishing that we lived in the library in a tent so that it wouldnt be an issue...

EffiePerine · 02/07/2009 08:08

GAH

Any idea how to stop a toddler trying to nreak your glasses first thing in the morning without shouting at him? Tried the HTT approach but he was about to break them and I simply can't afford a new pair at the moment . So I yelled and he cried but at least I got my glasses back unscathed

must do better

OP posts:
EffiePerine · 02/07/2009 20:48

well I'm still having problems when I need to get him to do something NOW and can't have a big discussion about it

but I do think we are being calmer which is a good thing

must read ch. 3 soon!

OP posts:
browntrout · 02/07/2009 21:06

I would like to join this too - will buy the book when I am next in town. I know that shouting doesnt work and in fact makes both of us miserable (DD is 2.6). The problem is that sometimes time is so short or I am so tired that I just revert to shouting because it is quicker. Have just done it now over bedtime cos she was messing about and I have chores to do and am too hot etc etc.

BUT I know all the time that it would just resolve itself much quicker if I didnt shout but tried a more gently persuasive method to get what I want.

Hadnt heard of the book before but will give it a whirl - I am so fed up of the sound of my raised voice. Am pregnant too and keep thinking that poor soon to be DD2 is lying there wondering what kind of monster mother she has let herself in for!

DidEinsteinsMum · 02/07/2009 21:13

Would this work with a literal child - ie one that has no imagination and doesn't do fantasy. Oh and is very confrontational -and gets a kick out of doing it?

he has never believed in father christmas I have tried to encourage it, alot, his dad told him if he didnt believe he wouldn't get presents so he told his dad but last year when told to ask fc for something he just shrugged turned round and asked grannie for it. He was only three.

We did the early years course thing but that made him worse (he does do play -dont ask). So would this work for this situation -any advice...

Sorry a bit of hijack.

DidEinsteinsMum · 02/07/2009 21:17

opps he told his dad he did, he doesn't do play.

i blame the heat.

EffiePerine · 02/07/2009 21:23

I have no idea DEM: there are anecdotes in the book on the technique working with children who have ADHD but no idea on literal-mindedness. I guess the basic precept is fostering a culture of respect rather than 'do what I say' which would be helpful?

OP posts: