Anyone up for a How To Talk thread? Fed up of shouting...

[EffiePerine]

I read How To Talk ages ago and thought blithely that I would apply it to DS1 as he got older, but after months of shouting and nagging and hauling him off stuff and away from stuff and declaring 'PUT THAT DOWN OR WE WILL GO HOME NOW, NOW DS1, GET INTO YOUR BUGGY WHY DO YOU NEVER LISTEN TO ME' I thought I was due a recap.

There's so much here that I need to go through it methodically. Anyone else up for a mini boot camp?

So ch 1 is helping children to deal with their feelings:

listen with full attention
acknowledge their feelings
give their feelings a name
give them their wishes in fantasy

Also wondering about toy-snatching problems, although since I have twins I can't expect either one of them to be better than the other!! One useful tip in my twin book which I use alot is encouraging a 'swap', so the twin trying to snatch has to give the other one a nice toy in exchange. It kind of works because often they find something better and lose interest in snatching, or the person being stolen from prefers the new toy. Or at the very least, they stop and think for a minute and think about making the other one happy too. It doesn't always work mind, often very ropey toy choices!! It also gives me something calm and fun to talk about rather than shouting 'stop snatching!!'.

I have a friend who is an elder sibling (as am I, but never felt like this), who has an abiding memory of childhood that she was always supposed to behave cos she was older, and saw her sister as the favourite as she always got away with things (in her opinion). It still bothers her now. I know that doesn't help you, but interesting how these things stick!!

I had an emergency moment today and lost it my son (5-first day of hols) had built a lovely den and his 13 month sister rampaged near it and he pushed her over and she feel onto her face (not aggressively, just wanting her to get away) but seeing her hurt I grabbed him too hard and all the proper things to say went out the window as I shouted.

red mist...

Has anyone also got The Pocket Parent? Similar style as HTT but is specifically designed for those emergency situations.

Well, some good moments today, but a couple of those red mist ones. twice today he ran off down the road as he didn't think we'd waited long enough before the green man appeared whilst waiting to cross.

The second time i did manage to say 'I don't like that, it scares me' rather then 'you naughty boy' etc. And then he did 'snap out' of the rage a bit quicker and meekly followed me home.

Have tried the online 'highly sensitive' quiz, and he comes out moderate i think, but i am very high I do remember having similar issues as a kid to the ones we are having with ds1, and was labeled awkward, daydreamer, difficult, moody, stropy, cry baby, and don't want ds1 to have the same. Shall buy book.

The fantasy thing really does work. My Ds1 (5.10) and Ds2 (3.2) were very unhappy and reluctant to leave Bubba Baloos yesterday (giant indoor play center here in Canada). We had been there for almost 2 hours and when it was time to leave, Ds2 lay on the floor, refusing to put his shoes on etc. while Ds1 started whining about how unfair it was and how he wished he could live at Bubba Baloos forever! I used that wish as fantasy by saying something like "Oh yes! Now where would be a good place for your bed ...how about in the big orange tunnel? And where would we cook? I think I'd put the stove on the pirate platform and I could toss your sausages into the ball room etc. etc." Both boys were giggling and coming up with all sorts of ungenious ideas which carried on much of the way home.

weasle: there is a bit in the book about labelling children, which I found v helpful and a little upsetting as I could see we were heading towards seeing DS1 (who isn;t yet 3) as a problem, stubborn child rather than the lovely tho infuriating little child he is.

I'm finding the getting out of bed that DS does very wearing. It's when we first put him down and he comes up with all kinds of excuses to get up again - needing the toilet, wanting his sleeping music on/off, losing his teddy bear (or rather thrwoing it behind his bed) etc. etc. I start off really calm and get more and more wound up.

I've tried incentivising him, promising I'd go in and see him if he satyed in bed for so long, talking to him, taking toys away but it seems to be only when I shout at him that he'll finally stay there. I end up hating myself but need my evenings too.

sunshine - I think thats a case for the one word approach - after one 'nice' attempt then you just put them back in and say 'bedtime' until they stop.

We also had success with the leaving door open if you stay in bed but closing it if you get up thing when ds was younger.

gks I've tried that before and it hasn't worked either. I'm loathe to leave his door open as if DD cries it will wake him up.

Sunshine: when does he go to bed? I've started letting DS1 stay up for an extra half hour while I get DS2 off to sleep (temporarily) and it seems to have cut down on the endless 'Mummyyyyyyy' as soon as I leave the room. I worked out that he was getting a bit cross at being put into bed while I went off and fed DS2 to sleep (fair enough I thought as he's older)

I had a very shouty afternoon after no sleep last night for me (Dh away, a door kept banging somewhere and the cats were spooked so I was too!!) and then no sleep at lunch for DTs (they fell asleep in car instead - not the plan!). So all very tired and fractious. We were all winding each other up and I know I am the adult and should stop but I when I'm in it.... it's so hard to.
The worst thing is my DS seems oblivious to my shouting, so I can't stop myself (unlike with DD who gets upset which is the check I need).
I feel so ashamed of my behaviour. This is not how I want to be.

Effie he goes to bed after DD. We all watch half of Ben 10 while the kids have bananas then I take DD upstairs for her bath and DS watched last half with instructions that he comes upstairs for bath when the programme has finished. He then comes up. I get DD out of the bath and he stays in while I feed DD and put her down. He gets out and has his story.

Same onld thing last night - got out of bed four times until DP shouted at him. Then he was up three times during the night with various excuses. Upshot is I'm totally exhausted.

God this is making me feel better - at school, I feel like I'm the only one! My dd is 7 and has A level manipulation. On a good day, I can handle it much of the time, but I don't want to tell you about bad days . We also take it in turns to be insomniacs, but she's really hard to wake in the morning and we are so often either late or nearly late for school - I'm fed up of getting letters from school about late arrivals, I KNOW we were late. I haven't got a book that gets me past about age 3 and I'm interested, but you all seem to be talking about different books, esp "HTT" - ? I'm never gonna find it! DH just reckons I spoil her, but I don't think I do, just trying to find a different way to setting a gazillion rules. We always said we'd only have a few, but it seems to me there's loads and it's all out of control.

Knickers! Just realised what HTT stands for! OK, so I know where to find that - there isn't one in English is there? I find Yank psychs harder to bear than English ones...

Sorry I'm not sure there's a UK translation Everhope

Wish me luck today: no sleep thanks to DS2 being ill and DS1 waking at 5:30. And DS1 i back in trainer pants after zillions of accidents. Not feeling much like empathising today...

EffieP good luck! Tiredness is definitely the enemy of patience and calm... can you organise your day to minimise likely flashpoints?

DS2 has been waking up a lot this week so I'm knackered and have been totally crap with DS1 . It just seems so much easier to shout than be patient. I know that 99% of his undesirable behaviour is down to me but I just don't seem to have the necessary energy. I recognise my triggers are tiredness and also that I'm pone to anxiety and being pre-occupied. We're off on holiday tomorrow (another current cause of stress!) but when we get back I'm going to make a real effort to slow down and also perhaps find about about some cognitive behaviour therapy for me to knock this negativity on the head once and for all.

I'm in too. DD is 18 months today but going on 7 with pre-teen hormones and stroppiness thrown in . I am as shouty as a massive shouty thing and if I carry on she'll be stone deaf or in care before she's two. Just ordered the book.

can i lurk on this thread - i've got 3 dc (dd nearly 8, ds1 4.9 and ds2 2.11).

I dont know where ds2 came from - the other 2 dc are so well behaved - not perfect obviously - they have they're flshpoints but on the whole really good!

But ds2 is a fecking nightmare - since 6.30 yesterday eve he has peed in his pants twice (once yest eve and once this morn), when i sent him upstairs to get some clean pants yesterday he instead went into the bathroom and squirted toothpaste all over the floor. I became canella mcshouty in shouty street and sent him to bed with no stories!

this morning i opened the window in the boys room just to see if it was still raining - they're on the first floor of the house - window opens inwards and the instant i opened it i knew he would copy me later! so i said to him "its really not a good idea to open the window - you might fall out and bang oyur head an it would be really sore. Mummy was wrong to opent he window"
so what did he do - he opened it! so i became canella mcshouty AGAIN and then he wet his pants! all over their desk where he'd been standing to open the window!

it seems nothing when i've written it down but he constantly doesnt listen to me and i just felt like i couldnt take anymore this morn - i sobbed for 10 mins after - i could cry now writing this. sometimes i feel like i want someone to take him away and thats terrible - if his mum feels like this no wonder he's naughty. but he just pushes every button till that red mist descends and i lose it.

so i'll lurk on this thread and read all your good advice - thank you for sharing your good ideas! will try them out over the weekend

cant believe i killed this thread with my misery yesterday!! MN full of support eh? only if you're a regular eh!!

canella, I bet like most of us you KNOW all this, you're just having a hard time atm.

So here is what I think:

1. Some kids ime have an uncanny knack of pushing their parents buttons.

1. He is quite young not to be wetting himself imo. Mine were both nominally dry by 2, but not reliably so til much closer to 3.5, and I remember that as both got more confident and used to using the toilet they also got more complacent (i think), so actually after a few months there were more accidents. But I also remember how IRRITATING it was, this sudden regression when I was Ms Smug Mummy with these fabulously early potty trained kids.

1. OK. Window. Tricky. I don't think kids really react much to our words at his age, tbh. They react to how we are, what they see. For him to open the window-is it actually dangerous?

I'd be very very honest with him. Within reason, I'd tell him your actual fear. I think kids react well to respect and honestly. If I thought that there was an actual decent chance he could fall, I'll tell him that. If I was worried that the neighbours would be shocked if they saw him at the window, I'd tell him that. If I thought there was a TINY chance of him falling, but even that tiny chance was too much for me, I'd tell him that. In simple, and respectful, and non-manipulative language, of course.

To take it apart a bit more. you said:

"its really not a good idea to open the window - you might fall out and bang oyur head an it would be really sore. Mummy was wrong to opent he window"

so: 1. You didn't actually tell him what you wanted him to do. You just gave him some information-you don't think its a great idea. He might be thinking, "hmm, mummy doesn't think its a good idea. Interesting. I think its a great idea...".

1. He saw you do it. You didn't fall out. You were quite safe. He will take far more from what he sees you do than what he hears you do.

What I'd have done here btw is to try to circumvent the whole situation by giving him a go with opening and shutting the window. Then letting him know that I didn't want him to open the window alone, for , but that I would supervise him if he wanted it in future.

Its hard though, I know from my own experience (also have 3 kids!) that they are SO different in how they recieve information. With some, you can talk til you are blue in the face and they will NOT seem to take it in.

I think kids are quite different in the amount

Nominally dry by 2?My ds was past 3 before he really got it - although then he got it really quickly...

yeah but I don't have much else to boast of

you can imagine the scenes at p&t group. "Oh yes, Fenella was reading Shakespeare at 18 months. We find she prefers the tragedies, as they are more sophisticated.".

"Arcturius is showing such musical talent, we are wondering if 6 months is too young to audition for the National Opera."

And there's me, burbling on about my kids not actually being behind the curve on potty training (incidentally, they trained themselves, I am much too lazy to faff about with such things)

[tries to think of nominal things to boast of]

lol though

I don't honestly think age of potty training is anything to boast of. I mean, I don't think there is a conclusive link between it and oxbridge entry or anything.

Will also say, those kids I know who have trained later have tended (I think) not to relapse, whereas I think relapsing is quite common among kids who trained nearer the 2.0 mark.

I don't get online much anymore but really need to lurk on here to get some tips for how to deal with DS 2.6.

My throat hurts from shouting most days