Controlled crying - please don't shout at me

[treadwithcare]

Please don't shout at me - positive responses only please - I am going to attempt controlled crying this evening. Who out there has done it successfully? And how did you do it? I am on my own for the next five days so it seems a sensible time to start. I need to teach dd to settle self to sleep without me pushing her in the pram in the freezing cold or taking her for a drive. How did you do it and how long did it take?

SummerC I did this with DD1 it took 3 nights, we went from 2.5hrs down to a few minutes. I always recommend it but it requires alot of hard work from the parent.
I dont understand why people more people dont chose this method and just go straight to CC.

I'm not a fan of cc OonaghBhuna, but that is just me. I know a couple of my friends have used it and had great success, but they felt horrible about themselves the entire time they did it.

On the other hand, I am a HUGE fan of the pick-up/put-down technique as the stress levels of child and parent are relatively low. And it works. I'll be using it again when dc#2 comes.

SC you might not need to, our DD2 didnt have any sleep issues which was a shock. I am a huge fan of the Baby Whisperer and I am not a fan of CC either. Although I do believe in personal choice and try not to be judgemental about it. I used to be very opposed and judgemental about CC!

yep i did this at about 5months with DS, and then at about 6months with DD.
neither of mine have any "emotional" problems, have just done it again at 18 and 31 months to remove thier dummies at night.
mine had a routine from the start, whilst it helps not all babies learn to settle unless u allow them to. CC is a way of letting them learn to settle in a loving and controlled environment.

It seems pretty clear to me that the NSPCC can't advocate CC or they would get loons leaving thier children for 24 hours and saying that the NSPCC told them it was OK.
Anyway, based on the research link provided below I feel totally vindicated and feel no further need to listen to any more rubbish about it being damaging. So I'm off now to give my DS dinner before putting him (smiling) to bed for a full and peaceful night's sleep.

At the end of the day, whatever method works best for you and your child is the best method. I couldn't use cc for my dd because I am an utter softy and would have been running in to her room the moment she cried (yes, I suffered from PFB syndrome! )

For me personally, pick-up/put-down worked a treat.

But to each their own right?

hi all

I put the NSPCC link here because I thought the most interesting thing about it was that it warns against "controlled crying" but then goes on to advise the method which most of us CC-ers used, and which we thought was CC. I thought that this was interesting because it indicates that there is a gap between what one person thinks CC means and what another thinks. The NSPCC supports the system of leaving a child crying for very short periods of time and gradually extending these periods so that the child learns to self settle and feels safe that his/her parent is still there.

I was therefore hoping that the NSPCC stuff might bring us closer to agreement, since we all have pretty much the same idea - help the child sleep better in order to be happier. How the parent does this obviously depends on the parent and the child (PUPD didn't work at all well for us, FWIW, but I know is great for many others).

I put the other link, to the Google answers page, because I thought it was pretty interesting & relevant reading. I haven't read all the articles it links to in full but the summary provided in the text seems pretty clear.

I do feel like we are all getting off the subject though, which was supposed to be how to help treadwithcare sleep train her children, using CC methods. She asked for advice & encouragement. I notice she hasn't come back, either. So, I'm keeping my opinions to myself from now on, but hope the links were useful for some people.

PS I quite like being called "starky" ;-)

HI, as the person responsible for this thread I thought I should jump back in and clarify (not justify) myself.
I am a single mum, who is blessed with a dd who is a brilliant sleeper once asleep for which I am truly grateful. However, I had a difficult birth, let down by a doula who didn't actually attend the birth, and have found life a struggle and a joy - just like all new mums. However in the evenings there are things I need to do - that is wash and iron her clothes; clean the kitchen, sterilise equipment etc, and if I left it all until I had got her to sleep I may never get to bed myself, never sleep myself and then not be able to get to work.

I am not suggesting for a moment I wish to abandon my daughter, but in order to look after her properly I do need time to have clean clothes and a clean house for her.

The reason I posted asking for positive responses was because I had done sufficient research for my own peace of mind, and I wanted to know HOW people did it. Did you listen at the door? Did you get a friend round? Did you use a stop watch? What intervals did you do? How many nights did it take? It was the practical information I was after, but still, it's provoked an interesting debate.

And in case you're interested, it worked a treat. She sleeps from 7pm to 7am with a dream feed at 11pm.

Good for you

Well done twc. I hope your evenings continue to be easier for you and sorry for helping to stir up the old debate! Was interesting tho and def found starky's information really helpful!

We did it with DD when she was about 6 months and it worked after 4 nights. We have since been able to put her in bed and walk away and she falls asleep when she is ready without crying and sleeps all night.

We tried it with DS and it didn't work, NOTHING seemed to work, well slightly different things every few weeks.

I still really don't know whether I think it is right or not to do this even though we did it. At the time we thought this:

There are 2 options:

1 - we spend loads of time trying to get her to sleep and don't get a rest ourselves and therefore get irritable from our own tiredness, resent doing it and get irritable, then feel generally irritable with her and she picks up on this and feels unloved, or

2 - do controlled crying for a few nights and feel like utter b**tards but then she sleeps without crying every night after that and we get a break and are less irritable, so basically we are all happy for more of the time than with option 1.

We aren't so 'saintly' that we could spend hours trying different things to get her to sleep while we became more tired and got no break and do this WITHOUT feeling at all cross and irritable - anyone who can do this, I admire you, how do you be like that?!

We did it by strict timing of 10 mins at a time before going to her and no longer. 10 mins seems like hours when your child is screaming and I would have found it impossible sometimes if DH hadn't physically restrained me from going to her before 10 mins! I got really angry with him but in the end the technique paid off. I think it is an excellent idea to have someone there for moral support because it feels so horrible to let your baby cry for any length of time. It feels unnatural - which is why I can't be sure it is right to do it or not. I just feel I would have been a really moody horrible mother to her if I had not done it and that seemed worse.

As they have got older DS's behaviour (who we didn't do CC with) is no less challenging than DD's although they are challenging in different ways, and they both seem generally happy.

response to Ineedmorechocolatenow on Sun 04-Jan-09 17:04:07

yes I agree it is a big assumption.

A lot of what is printed on CC is based on Ferber's work. A lot of it is not directly based on Ferber's work but a lot of seems to have evolved out of Ferber's work, for better and for worse. Something Ferber himself does not seem entirely comfortable with for many legitimate reasons.

Cornsilk, I don't like the NSPCC for lots of different reasons.

Treadwithcare, you don't have to justify yourself to us or anyone else. All you need to do is inform yourself so you can make informed choices.

people who sometimes say things I don't want to hear are not necessarily my enemy.

Hooray for you, Treadwithcare. I'm glad it worked for you both.

Hi,

This topic is always debatable but it seems it is one every mother has her own opinion about! Congratulations TWC, you have decided to do sometihng about it, for your own reasons. No-one has actually defined controlled crying and certainly leaving a baby of 5-6 months to cry for a LONG PERIOD (over 20-30 mins)is not productive to your baby or how you feel as a mother. The key to get your child to sleep is to set good habits from the start but as a new mother and a single one at that, it can be very difficult to know what to do/what not to do.

I worked as a trained nanny for many different families and have had babies amazingly sleeping through the night from as early as 6-8 weeks (through their own doing). Certainly a baby of 6 months + is capable (unless ill or premature) and fully able to sleep through the night PROVIDED they have a good daytime routine and sufficient food in the day. I specialize in Sleep /Sleep training and would be happy to give treadwithcare a FREE consultation as I feel you've had a lot to cope with. It sounds like you are doing a good job but if you have any queries or want some tips please get in touch.
*If any other mummies would like a copy of my FREE Sleep Tips, or book a Sleep Advice session just email me- [email protected] or go to my website for further info. www.earlydaysconsutlancy.co.uk /07973 831 861

Good luck -just think of how you and your child will feel when your baby happily goes to sleep without crying, which can be in less than a week!

We did CC at about same age, took 3 nights, 45 minutes first time, kept going in every 5 minutes to just shush and pat, no picking up. He was still waking during night then so did CC every time he woke as well, quite quickly he learnt to settle himself. Have never thought this was the wrong thing to do, ever. Have never regretted it. Have never felt he has been emotionally scarred in any way.

I was the one who found it most difficult and I did sob every time he cried and cried and during the day would call people to talk me through it. But it was very important to me to get him to go to sleep on his own so I was prepared to put us all through it and it seemed the quickest and most effective approach (having read all the books and spoken to lots of people and then put my faith in people whose parenting philosophy and whose opinions I most related to and trusted).

Getting yourself to sleep on your own is only the first stage in learning to live independently of your parents (next is eating on your own, then dressing on your own etc etc).

Everyone has a different way of doing things which fit their own situation and their personalities and those of their kids. What might work for you won't work for someone else and vice versa. If you have decided it fits with your parenting philosophy, go for it, stick with it, persevere.

firstly ignore anyone who has said she is too young! everyone has their own opinions and many think cc is an awful thing to do but it's necessary sometimes. we did it with our son at 6.5 months and were told by health visitor this was ok to do, from 6 months onwards. he responded really well to it and within a week was dropping off to sleep on his own very happily within about 5 or 10 minutes. the way we did it was leave him for 2, then 5, then 10,then 15 minutes (15 is recommended maximum) and each time you go in to them don't stay too long (a minute or two) - other than that it varies on how you should do it. some say don't talk to them, others say don't pick them up... we followed our hearts and did both! reassurance for the baby and then put them back down and leave quite quickly. our son is now 2 and a quarter and 99% of the time has continued this wonderful sleep pattern - totally giving us our evenings back! hope it all went well for you as i know this is late.... or good luck if you haven't tried yet!

i was told by a health visitor it can work for 8-9month olds but not really any younger, but all babies and families are so different it's not fair to make such big judgements on people based on the tiny bit of info you see online.

i am really anti cc - i wouldn't want to fall asleep crying so why should my baby, so I would happily have baby in bed with us, but number 2 is on the way and i can't have 2 babies in our bed BF as and when they feel like it. so we've worked on getting him to go to sleep and back to sleep on his own - feels like controlled crying cause we were told if we've checked on him, he's o.k, leave him to it. it breaks my heart to hear him cry as i leave the room but 5mins later when he's peacefully asleep i know he's happier in the end if he knows what to expect and it happens every sleep time.

i'm still not totally happy about what i'm doing but this is what our family needs - i don't think i could deal with a toddler standing in his cot screaming and crying to be picked up and cuddled to sleep.

I have only just read all of thi and I cannot believe you have all slated this poor girl who is a single parent wanting a little bit of time to get the house etc sorted. It is hardly selfish and quite frankly if getting the baby to sleep at 7pm is the way to keep her sanity then go for it. if you are deluded enough to think that wearing them in a sling all evening until they fall asleep is a sensible and practical thing for a workign woman on her own you are ridiculous. I thought this site was about supporting other Mums not making them fell bad about themsleves. Clearly she has managed to sort this all out pretty quickly and is now alot happier for it - good on you.

we did it with our son at 5.5 months. first we established a night time routine, dinner, bath, story and milk, bed, and then we started putting him down awake and leaving him to self settle with thumb/teddy bear. He cried for 10 mins the first night, 5 after that and has self settled every night since. We used the book healthy child, healthy sleep habits, which is fab for helping you regain your sanity after 5 months of sleeplessness. He is now a happy 2 year old, and sleeps so much better than all my friends' babies who were shocked that we let him cry. A few of them who waited a year or more before sleep training found it very difficult, and two have kids who still don't sleep through, and feed all night, leaving grumpy mums and horible toddlers! Our son, with his strict routine, lunch time nap in his cot and earlyish bed time is a happy go lucky little man!

I have read with interest the info/advice given on CC. I have tried CC and it hasn't work for me, even though it appears to be working for a lot of people. My daughter (now 1 yr old) sleeps OK at night, I can put her down awake and walk out of the room with no trouble, she just gives me a wave and settles off to sleep. My problem is day time naps - after 6 weeks (yes SIX!) of trying cc during the day she still cried for between 30mins-1hr. I now have to take her a walk in the buggy or a drive in the car - which is OK I guess, but doesn't really give me chance to have a break at home or do some much needed housework! Can anyone give me any suggestions?

We could go on forevere talking about whther or not cc is good for a baby. I tried it, hated it and although I suffer from sleep deprivation and although i do not claim to be a pro at putting my own babies to sleep, I must say I would not be surprised if after say 20 years those so called child experst came out to say hey you know what the cc technique has proven through studies to be damaging to babies, etc etc ..so in the end it is all a big experiment..

I used CC after 14 months of no sleep, and it worked in 2 nights. It was hard work, but very worth it. Our dd has certainly not been damaged by it...in fact she eats and sleeps much better and is well behaved all round as she is now getting the correct amount of sleep.I know it's not for everyone. We will definitely use this method again, but might not leave it so late next time round (from the info i was given it, is not reccommended for babies under 6 months)

How do parents know for sure if using CC has had a negative effect on their child. I think we probably all know some very insecure adults that were left to cry as babies.

Well I have just started this in the last couple of days. I was so apprehensive about the thought and felt quite emotional about starting it, but so far so good. My DD is 23mths and I finally took the leap to stop breastfeeding at night and to simply leave her to "cry herself" to sleep. I talked to her about what was going to happen all day, but I was sooooooooo worried and nervous about actually following it through. The first night was Thursday and she cried (well screamed mummy, then daddy) constantly for 45 mins. I went in after 5mins, then 10mins, then 20 mins and was dreading waiting 40mins, but she stopped after another 20. Then last night it was 8 mins, then tonight no crying at all! I don't want to get too excited about it, but I feel so much better already. The first night was really really hard with us arguing about not going upstairs to her, but I kept texting my sister, who kept telling me to sit it out. I needed that support and am grateful for it. When you feel it is time, have the strength to go for it and make it clear what will happen. Have someone support you and it would be so easy to give in. xx