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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Controlled crying - please don't shout at me

126 replies

treadwithcare · 17/12/2008 10:43

Please don't shout at me - positive responses only please - I am going to attempt controlled crying this evening. Who out there has done it successfully? And how did you do it? I am on my own for the next five days so it seems a sensible time to start. I need to teach dd to settle self to sleep without me pushing her in the pram in the freezing cold or taking her for a drive. How did you do it and how long did it take?

OP posts:

Bubbaluv · 04/01/2009 10:22

Agree Sweetkitty, and don't go on threads that specifically ask for positive opinions only if you only have negative opinions to offer! (Not that you personally did.)

sweetkitty · 04/01/2009 10:34

My first post was an post at a 5 1/2 month old sleeping through the night.

But I also think that if you ask for help with CC you will get a fair few posts not agreeing with you. I don't agree with CC, wouldn't do it myself but that does not make me a better or worse parent than someone who does only a differetn parent and isn't it what it's all about we all parent differently. It's all about making informed choices at the end of the day

Bubbaluv · 04/01/2009 10:39

Agree Sweetkitty and certainly wasn't suggesting that YOU had said anything out of order. Agree that if you start a general thread about CC you should expect plenty of opposition, but surely if you specifically ask for supportive responses ONLY then that should be respected?

seeker · 04/01/2009 10:45

Interesting. So if you think someone's doing something that is actively harmful then you shouldn't say anything?

The OP was asking for positive responses, but she was also asking how to do CC - which suggests to me that she hasn't read or heard very much about it and may not realize that it is not recommended - even by it's advocates - for very young babies. I see nothing wrong with pointing this out.

Bubbaluv · 04/01/2009 11:02

Seeker,
The OP makes it pretty clear that she's seen cc advocates being shouted down on MN in the past
"Please don't shout at me"
so clearly she HAS been exposed to the arguments from those who share your opinion.

CoteDAzur · 04/01/2009 11:06

seeker - The fact is that you don't know what a 6 month old baby thinks, and you don't know that anyone has "actively harmed" their baby by sleep training them under 6 months.

All that is just your opinion. Others have their own.

Those of us who have done it testify that it worked quickly, our babies' psychology and our bond haven't suffered, and in fact babies are much happier after they learn to sleep through the night/self-soothe back to sleep when they wake.

You seem to think we are idiots who have no idea what goes on with our babies

anniebear · 04/01/2009 11:27

You do what you think best

Maybe at first though try the lying beside, or alongside the cot patting, singing etc and gradually withdraw

If this worked would be less hassle for both of you

if doesnt work, then try the CC

let us know how it goes

OonaghBhuna · 04/01/2009 12:51

She sleeps through the night which is amazing at her age.I would go for a routine but also check how much sleep she is getting during the day? Maybe she is not tired when you are putting her down or maybe she is sleeping too late into the afternoon?
She is far to young for CC.You should look at the baby whisperer website she has some excellent solutions to sleep issues that do not involve leaving the baby alone to cry for any length of time.

MarlaSinger · 04/01/2009 13:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minxofmancunia · 04/01/2009 13:25

I know you only asked for positive responses but I have to say please don't do it, she's too too young. 12+ months is the recommendation by the nspcc and many child psychologists.

The 4s and shush pat method from the baby whisperer worked miracles for us, sleeping through from 4 months, settling herself to sleep from 3 months.

at the poster who used it from 4 months and used earphones! Usually try to to be judgemental on mn that that has left me aghast!

Please please don't use earplugs/phones, as unpleasant as it is you need to be able to hear them.

chipkid · 04/01/2009 13:33

the fact that your child is sleeping through the night means that she is able to settle herself back to sleep as at this age she will almost certainly be waking momentarily during the night. Agree with those that say get her into a different bedtime routine that doesn't involve walking her or driving her around. Put her into her cot awake and stay with her, soothing her, reading to her-she has to break the habit of being driven or walked to sleep too.
good luck

foxytocin · 04/01/2009 13:46

cote - The fact is that you don't know what a 6 month old baby thinks, and you don't know that anyone has "actively harmed" their baby by sleep training them under 6 months.

All that is just your opinion.

Others have their own. Like seeker, my opinion, is backed up by research of how infant sleep evolves throughout the first year of life and continues to evolve quite significantly up to about the age of 3.

When Ferber published his sleep book in the 80's most of his guidance pointed parents to practice sleep training from no younger than 6 months.

The new Edition of Ferber's book (a couple yrs ago I believe) now seems to point parents to not practice sleep training till after 12 months.

Of course, it is your child and you do as you seem fit. It is only fair that other people know what current thinking is and to do their own research and make their own decisions as they see fit.

Just because it seems to you that it has done your child no harm doesn't mean that your experience will be duplicated elsewhere.

OP, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Can I suggest you putting your baby in the pram, take her in whatever room you have to be working in and shoggle her back and forth / side to side to get her off to sleep and to keep her that way? If you put a slipper under a wheel or two, it imitates the cracks in the pavement when you shoggle the pram back and forth.

Bubbaluv · 04/01/2009 14:40

Minx, I was joking about the earphones and I put a smiley face there to make it absolutely clear. goodness me!

Bubbaluv · 04/01/2009 14:51

If it's harmful then how come I don't know anyone who's child has been harmed by it when pretty much everyone I know has done it? In fact the only people I know who have real difficulty dealing with cranky, miserable children are the ones who couldn't bring themselves to do any training that involved just letting thier child cry for a bit. I'm sitting here with a wonderful, happy, relaxed little boy who truly loves his bedtime so I am completely sure it has done him no harm at all - on the contrary.

twinmam · 04/01/2009 14:51

Ffs - she's not suggesting she sticks her child in a box and abandons her! CC is, I know, very controversial and seems to get people so het up but it has as many supporters as it does opponents and plenty of research to back it up. Yes, I know, I know, plenty of research also condemns it... it's just one of those things that will continue to cause heated debate. I tried it, it worked. I don't have to justify that to anyone. They are my children, I love them and we have a fantastic relationship. It was my choice. Am sure I will now get slated but, the thing is, I just don't care...

twinmam · 04/01/2009 14:52

PS Well said Bubbaluv

starkadder · 04/01/2009 14:53

I did use earphones though, because I had decided I would wait 5 minutes before I went in again, to give my baby the chance to settle himself to sleep, and I found listening to his crying very upsetting. What is so terrible about that?

twinmam · 04/01/2009 14:59

Ooh, wait for it starkadder..... they're coming to get you

Bubbaluv · 04/01/2009 15:01

Nothing Starkadder. If you'd but the earphones on and checked on your bub an hour later it might be a bit more of an issue!

starkadder · 04/01/2009 15:03

Also, (minxofmancunia) I can't see where on the NSPCC website it says not to do CC until 12 months. I can see it says that night time feeds can be dropped from 6 months.

Actually, the NSPCC website says not to leave your baby to cry but then goes on to give instructions as to how to carry out controlled crying pretty well - i.e. let your baby cry but only for short periods of time. I think this is often the problem - CC is perceived as leaving your baby to sob NOT himself/herself to sleep for hours and hours. That is no the idea at all - that's why it's "controlled" and why people often prefer to call it "sleep training". Anyway, the NSPCC website's exact words are:

^Never leave her to cry
Although some experts recommend controlled crying, Dr Wilson argues against this. ?Leaving a baby to cry creates fear and I don?t think fear is a good way to go to sleep.? Instead, she recommends lots of repeated reassurance. Settle your baby in bed, say, ?Night night, sweetheart,? and leave the room. If she cries, wait a few seconds longer to see if she settles herself, then go back, reassure her and when she?s quiet say, ?Night night, sweetheart? again, and then leave the room. If she cries, wait a little bit longer again before going to settle her. For the first few nights you do this, you may have to keep returning many, many times, but after a few nights, she will start to settle. This is because you will have taught her that you are still nearby if she needs you.^

starkadder · 04/01/2009 15:04

thanks twinmam and bubbaluv

starkadder · 04/01/2009 15:05

PS No idea where that weird "NOT" in the sentence above came from! Should say:
CC is perceived as leaving your baby to sob himself/herself to sleep for hours and hours. That is not the idea at all - that's why it's "controlled" and why people often prefer to call it "sleep training". Anyway, the NSPCC website's exact words are:

Bubbaluv · 04/01/2009 15:12

OMG - this is a breakthrough! NSPCC instructions on how to do CC! Starkadder you have just provided all CC advocates with a little back-up when the nay-sayers fling thier "research" (designed to sell books to the desperately sleep-deprived) at us and tell us it's creulty! Yippeeee!!

Ineedmorechocolatenow · 04/01/2009 15:20

Interesting link here

I swear people are so adamantly against it because they think you are leaving them to cry and sob for hours. I left my DS for no longer than 5 mins at a time and I built up to that, it started at 1 min, and then went in. I never left him for longer than 5 mins for any stretch.

starkadder · 04/01/2009 15:26

The other very interesting link which came up in a recent MN debate on CC was the following:

see here

...which goes into detail about research done or not done into how CC as most of us would interpret it affects your baby. This was provided by an MN user called DaddyJ and I found it v interesting although, treadwithcare, it is kind of getting away from the point of your original question, which was not if CC was a good idea or not, but just how to carry it out - sorry about that.

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