Controlled crying - please don't shout at me

[treadwithcare]

Please don't shout at me - positive responses only please - I am going to attempt controlled crying this evening. Who out there has done it successfully? And how did you do it? I am on my own for the next five days so it seems a sensible time to start. I need to teach dd to settle self to sleep without me pushing her in the pram in the freezing cold or taking her for a drive. How did you do it and how long did it take?

That's a fab link starkadder!

i've just read Ferbers book (guru of CC) and he also suggests some "gentler" ways of encouraging self settling.

half my nct group have used cc now (babies are 5mo), it seemed to work for them and took 3 days to 2 weeks. one of them has been going 2 weeks now and baby is still waking up. i couldn't do that and ferber says if you start and then give up, you'll make things worse.

we have been doing basically the baby whisperer pick up/put down technique for 3 days now - we leave her awake and calm and she self settles straightaway about half the time now (unheard of before), and 2 out of the last 3 nights she has resettled herself at 4am after a brief chatter - no crying.

i haven't found it to be distressing for either of us (though have had to be patient) and am v. impressed so far with the results. might be worth a try. i was exhausted and desperate for a solution and am feeling v. positive now. glad we tried pu/pd before cc.

good luck.

Your link was good too, Ineedmorechocolatenow. Actually, it was an Australian colleague telling me about a sleep clinic he took his baby to which also helped me make my decision to try CC.

I agree there are numerous interpretations of cc, the gradual method which has been described here seems to hold a lot of common sense, if shush pat/PUPD failed I'd prob go for this myself for an older baby.

The cc methods I've encountered with friends are prob more akin to "crying it out" which is pretty harsh imo.

Paediatricians and child psychologists/psychoanalysts seem to think that a child self-soothing or settling themselves to sleep is a natural developmental stage, it can be encouraged but not "taught", the reasons it works quickly may be due to far more complex psychological processes than we realise than any "learning", babies lack the cognitive ability to "learn" in this way, they are guided by sensory processing and rudumentary emotion.

"Why Love Matters" by Sue Gerhardt provides an intersting insight into babies emotions and personality development.

That is really interesting stuff. Thanks!

A significant bit of the NSPCC text is "wait a few seconds". Seconds, not minutes.

Minx, You should really look at Starkadder's link.

I think we all pretty much agree.

Oh, maybe spoke too soon about us all agreeing.

it does say "seconds" but then it says to wait a bit longer the next time. So, eventually, (I think after about 60) seconds become minutes - and we are talking about minutes of leaving the baby to self-settle here, not hours.

Here is the NSPCC link if anyone wants it.

[http://www.yourfamily.org.uk/parenting_zone/baby/behaviour/how_to_help_your_baby_sleep NSPCC sleep advice]]

whoops, here it is

NSPCC sleep advice

starkadder

have you really looked at the text of those links?

I looked at 3 of them briefly a couple months ago or so. more or less the first 3, if i remember rightly.

none of the crying observed children younger than 12 months.

none of the crying studied cc scenarios as they happened with trained unbiased researchers. they weren't even investigating cc at the time.

i remember one with under 12 months old children but the researchers came to the homes 30 mins or so before the child's day began and observed them from then on.

these studies were not set out to prove the safety of cc. they were set out to show other things and smeone has made vicarious connections between them and the safety of cc.

btw. i am one of those who didn't do cc and does't have tired whinging children who actually like bedtimes.

hi foxytocin - which links do you mean? I posted the link to the Google answers thing and the NSPCC website. The Google Answers thing then has several more links and, tbh, I haven't read all of them - just the summaries of them provided in the text.

I did it with my 5.5 month old who is absolutely fine now and an okay sleeper. Used the gradual approach, took about 2/3 nights. I don't give a toss if anyone on here wants to judge me for it - it worked for us at the time and didn't harm my child at all.

I too did CC with both my DDs when they were around 6 or 7 months and had got out of a good sleep routine.

First night it took quite a while of to-ing and fro-ing (couple of hours which is no fun at 2am) before they settled. Second night 20 mins, third night nothing. Never looked back.

It is very hard and you have to be determined to stick at it. You also have to be sure there isn't a genuine reason for them being upset such as teething or illness.

Worked a treat for mine and they are now both happy well adjusted 10 and 12 year olds.

The NSPCC website says to leave the baby for a few seconds - then a few more seconds. It would take a very long time to build up to 5 minutes at a few seconds at a time. And it says specifically that controlled crying creates fear and they do not recommend it.

You don't need to build up to 5 minutes though Seeker - it works before that stage - at least it did for me. Personally I wouldn't take my child-care advice from the NSPCC anyway.

Cornsilk - just out of interest why wouldnt you take advice from the NSPCC?

I'm a teacher and the NSPCC visited a school I worked in once. This woman did not have a clue. It was a very deprived area and she was trying to do some fund raising. She asked the chn to imagine what it would feel like if they'd never been to Mc Donalds. Lots of heads went down, as many chn in the school were very poor and Mc Donalds was just not in their experience. (infant/junior school.) I was very I have had little faith in them after that experience.

She sounds very inappropriate ,but is it fair to condemn the whole charity due to one person?
They have done alot of good work in the schools that I have worked in, many in extremely depived areas( offering counselling, play therapy, art therapy etc).

Well I know that cc worked for me, my ds is the most laid back child you could ever wish to meet. The Health Visitor recommended it to me so I did it with her guidance. For our family it was not a bad choice.

the google answers link, starky

I am not surprised that the nspcc recommendations state 6 months. It is most likely based on the first edition of Ferber's.

most published material on cc still follow that recommendation afaik.

it takes a while for change to occur his new book has only been out for about 2 yrs.

'I am not surprised that the nspcc recommendations state 6 months. It is most likely based on the first edition of Ferber's.'

That's a big assumption foxytocin...

But the NSPCC website doesn't recommend controlled crying at all. In fact it specifically warns against it. It does suggestt rying to drop night feeds from 6 months, which is a completely different thing.

I know you've had loads of advice, but if you want a little more....

I was blessed with a dd who starting sleeping through the night at 5 weeks (with me sneaking in at 11pm for a dream feed). My problem was the same though, getting her to settle and drift off. I used the "pick up, put down technique" after seeing it on a television show. It worked a treat in just 3 nights!

It's exhausting but so worth it. After bathtime and a bottle/cup, give her a kiss and cuddle, say "it's only bedtime" and put her in her cot but stay in the room. If she cries, count to 10, pick her up (NO kisses or cuddles now) and say "it's only bedtime" and put her back in the cot. Again...stay in the room. If she cries again, pick her up....you get the picture right?

I did this for three nights and when she was calm I moved away from the cot, but stayed in the room. The first night I was in her room for almost 2 hours before she dropped off. The second night it was around 45 minutes and the 3rd night she went down straight away.

The trick is to give her absolutely no stimulation once you have put her down. Every time you pick her up, the only thing you say to her is "it's only bedtime". Also, there are no kisses or cuddles. Apparently it works because the child feels secure knowing you are there. Although honestly, I don't care why it works, it just does!

Definitely give it a try. It is exhausting like I said, but since we did it, my dd goes to sleep at 8pm and sleeps through until 8am (she's a year old now). It's brilliant! Good luck.