Should a perfectly normal 4.5 year old manage to sit at the table for maybe 45 mins or an hour for a meal?

[MNersanonymous]

Had lunch yesterday with a dear friend and her ds who is 4.5.

Between courses he'd get down from the table at the (thankfully child friendly) restaurant and go off e.g. for a walk with his dad. Ds (2.10) meanwhile has been happily sitting in restaurants since he was well under 2 because we have taught him getting down is not acceptable - and he does still get toys or crayons whilst we wait for the first course.

DF is entitled to have different rules but this time my ds started asking if he could go off for a walk too.

Now I know all kids are different but isn't it fair to think that by 4.5 a child should manage a short meal in a restaurant WITH toys and crayons might I add without getting down? And by short meal I mean maybe 45 mins or an hour?

Am I being unreasonable in my expectations and also what should i say to ds now he has started wanting to copy the other little boy?
I managed a 'in our family we stay at the table' but that was only ok as my friend wasn'tthere by then - if she had been it would have sounded really rude.

How can I get ds to stick with our rules without it looking like I'm slagging off theirs?

DS was 'used to it'. We had attempted to take him out to eat since hewas tiny. At some stages he was really good at it, at others it was impossible so we didn't take him. If walking a child around a bit during the boring bit helps, so be it.

Your 2 year-olds fascination with sitting still games might not last...colouring becomes v boring to a fit active 4 year-old.

Your child will encounter lots of behaviour which is not of the same 'calibre' as you like. It's possible that in other matters your child is allowed to do things others aren't. be careful - being critical of other peopl's children's behaviour has a habit of storing itself up and turning round to bite you!

Well, I differ from most then, by saying that I don't think it is too much to ask.
I am not saying that I think many children can manage it, becasue I don't think they can, but I think that is a shame.
We took ds(4.2) to a harvester last week. Now come on, this is a harvester we are talking about, not some posh place.
He got down to get some salad. He got down to go to the toilet. But apart from that he sat and coloured and ate his dinner. Dh and I were firm. He asked to get down to run about and we said no.
I do not think that this is an unreasonable expectation.

Should add - ds2 aged 2 can sit for longer than ds1 aged 5.

They are all different, hers is more active than yours, there is nothing you can do about it so I'd either think of ways to accommodate his level of activity into your holiday, or cancel it if it's going to cause problems.

Avoid making comparisons in front of your child/your friend's child. Just speak to him directly and ignore whatever else is going on.

Ime, under 3s are sometimes more biddable and distractable than 4 or 5 yr olds (and an hour is a pretty long time for them to keep still imo so from that pov I think you are being a bit unreasonable)

I guess I'm going to come up against such situations more and more - both ways. Where my ds does something a friend's child isn't 'allowed' to do and vice versa. I'm just a bit rubbish at dealing with all that.

My OP was probably a bit badly-worded and sounded like I was being smug.

So some of you catty types can bugger off and go and pick on someone else for being smug/precious or whatever. (I feel like I'm back at school here).

As others have said, a lot comes down to personality.

Ds1 would probably have been able to sit there, but there are times even now when the use of a cattle-prod is probably the only thing that will get him moving anywhere.

Ds2 is 5yrs old and wouldn't last 5 minutes. You'd probably be begging him to go off for a walk somewhere.

Dd would be too bloody nosy interested in her surroundings to sit still for long.

If you look at continental children, they have no problem sitting for 2 hour meals. Why is that, and why should British families be doomed to fail?

and p.s. that's why I was asking - I wanted to know whether it was reasonable or not.

Her ds has always been more active than mine and yes maybe mine's going to suss out he can get down soon or be more demanding about it, but if he does he won't get his dessert at the end. That'll teach him (or am I being naive?)

No, it isn't rocket science, SciencTeacher, many of us DO actually talk to our children and include them, we are not dim or negligent or unrealistic - and goodness, we actually enjoy our children's company at a meal.

Some children just don't feel the same about enjoying doing all that sitting at a restaurant table.

We didn't take DS out to eat when it really wasn't working, as it was no pleasure for anyone. Now he behaves well, eats a wide variety of menu food etc etc. But not because i succesfully trained him at toddler age to do so.

Children are different, children change.

DS1 has sat at the dinner table with us until the family has finished since he was about 2. he asks if he can get down, sometimes it is yes, sometimes not.
I don't judge other children, they have been bought up with the rules in their family, no 2 families run things identically.
However, when other children come to our house, our rules stand, in the same way as I expect their rules to apply when DS1 goes there.

This afternoon we have just had a family sunday lunch for DS1's birthday and both boys sat at the table for 1 hour, DS1 sat for a bit longer after DS2 had gone up for a nap.

So in answer to OP I think a normal 4.5 year old can sit still for 45 minutes, it just depends if it has ever been suggested to them before.

It's not an unreasonable expectation if you have the sort of child who asks to get down and then doesn't. If you have the sort of child who wriggles like their pants have red ants in, it is. Some children can't, what do you suggest to make them?

Actually, I would love to know the answer to this, no sarcasm, because it could be that I am doing something wrong - but don't you feel that if all children responded the same to the same treatment, teachers would have no behavior disparity in classrooms?

you sound v lucky. i know a few children this age. not a chance!

I've got a 7yo and a 2yo who will happily sit at a table either eating or waiting, generally chatting or whatever, no probs. My 4.6yr old however, will not. They have all been brought up with the same standards and expectations, meals at the dining table and so on [I'm not judging anyone here, it is what works for us] The four yr old would do all this happily when he was two ...tho he was in a high chair and so couldn't get off easily
ATM I can't decide whether it's an 'age' thing or a personality thing. If I make my mind up I'll let you know!

You're being naive.

Ds1 has lost countless puddings because he can't sit and wait for them.

He'd rather lose the pudding.

This is the child who, at 18 months, was the most docile lump I'd ever known.

Think very carefully about that holiday . If this is going to cause you angst , and there may be other parenting "differences" too , then it could prove very stressful otherwise and possibly damage your friendship. That 2 year age gap is fairly significant at this stage. You may want to have some common policy in advance towards eating , bedtime etc but even a week or so of compromise isn't likely to be irreparable.

Maybe she would even have preferred it had your ds joined in the play away from the table if she wanted to to talk to you without the kids around ?

OK, fair enough, MNanonymous - your OP did sound a teeny bit smug and perhaps parents of 'hunter-gatherers' are a bit weary of being told off (not by you - MN perfect parents!).

Plenty of people have posted that they couldn't understand why children behved 'badly' in restaurants...until they had a subsequent child who made it all clear.

In most mediterranean restaurants I have been in the children have wandered off to play between courses, and come back as they pleased.

Message withdrawn

Isn't concentration span for an average child their age plus 5 mins? Therefore for many childtren of 4.5, 45 mins is too long.

Oh and before, I didn't mean to sound smug. Dh and I have had LOTS of painful meals, at the bloody HARVESTER, in order to get to this stage, so I am not at all Smug. Besides, next time, he will probably be a nightmare !

But Jingly, what do you actually say to enforce your rules if the other parents are there? That's what I struggle with - I just get all self conscious about it!

Message withdrawn

When we holidayed in Italy last year my ds's were delighted to find that the children wandered around freely from table to table. That holiday was the only time they have actually enjoyed being in a restaurant.
In 'Raising Boys' Steven Biddulph explains that 4 year old boys get a massive surge of testosterone and that this makes them restless.

OP - wait till DS is 4 and you'll know DS1 sat happily when he was 2 but now is certainly a lot more restless. Remember they don't always stay the same you know!

MNer we tend to sit at the table to eat meals, for some of DS's friends that in itself is a new thing. If the parent is there I just say that we are sitting at the table.
If the children start to get down, I gently say oh you can get down but DS1 hasn't finished yet, do you think it would be nice to wait for him. I don't feel it is any different if the parent is there or not. 95% of the time the child either sits back down or hangs round in the kitchen waiting for DS1 to finish.
I appreciate them waiting for DS1 rather than tearing off so don't mind whether they wait at the table or in the kitchen.

My DS is 4.7 and he can't happily sit down for longer than it takes to eat a course. He will stay put but he doesn't enjoy it.

At 2.10 we could take him anywhere. He wouldn't have dreamt of getting up.

Suspect the OP will find things change as her DS gets older.