I've just smacked my 23 month old and generally feel unable to cope with him

[longleggedloon]

This is my first time on Mumsnet. I logged in tonight in desperation looking for someone else in a similar boat. I can't find any solace in the threads I've looked at as all the replies make handling tantrums so easy. I've tried everything everyone suggests e.g. ignoring, saying No, being consistent, letting him choose wherever possible, loads of praise ... nothing works. I can't reason with him as he has very little language. He hits me and other children, he has tantrums for no apparent reason (this morning when he got up at 7am and called for his daddy, daddy went down, said hello and he flew into a rage...), refuses to eat, says no to every suggestion (bath, food, dressing etc etc). I could go on and on about the numerous incidents in a single day. I can't go to toddler groups or Tumble Tots which we signed up for stupidly as he hits other children and then other mums look at me in digust. Despite all this I've carried on being consistent, firm with things that matter, flexible with things that don't, sticking to his routine, planning outings, trying to play with him more. I've read Dr Green's Toddler Taming. However recently he has got even worse and more and more I've been losing the plot, my temper and slapping him in response to him slapping me. Tonight, he was bashing me, the cupboards, throwing food around etc. so i tried to grab him to put him out in the hall where he goes to calm down. But he hit me hard and I responded by slapping him several times on the hands and face. The worst of it is that I wanted to do worse, I was so angry. The irony of all of this is that he goes to a childminder 2 days a week and is perfectly behaved there. It is no good advising me to talk to my H.V - I have and she just smiled and said "they can be pesky can't they?". Does anyone know of any other help I can get? Are there anger management classes for mums or behavioural specialists for 2 year olds?

I think you need to analyse your own behaviour first. Babies are like mirrors, they play back the behaviour they see.

Your son sounds like a totally normal 2 year old to me and you sound like a pretty harassed mum, who probably does need some help to stop her abusing her child.

I hope, for both your sakes, that you get some good advice on here. I'm not really good with this kind of thread, because I abhor smacking, and don't want to make things worse for you by being all judgy

Welcome to MN

I found that age utterly grim. Fortunately I didn't have the hitting to deal with. Please don't end up isolating yourself because of the hitting - I would hope that as long as you are seen to be supervising and telling him not to hit, the other mums would be thinking there but for the grace of god go I. I think that hitting back when you are hit can almost be a reflex action, so try not to kill yourself with guilt. In terms of help - as a general thought, if you are worried about the language, try and get him on list for SALT and get a hearing test done - hearing probs can be a simple physical cause of frustration. Otherwise - I doubt you would get a referral for behaviour problems at such a young age - if you can go to Surestart centre/children's centre they do often run positive parenting courses with Creche, that might 1)help you feel more supported and 2)you mnight be able to speak to child professionals who are a bit less weedy with the advice than your HV.

best wishes, and hope that things turn around for you both soon.

some help to stop abusing her child [hmmm]. One incident of lost temper doesn't IMHO an abuser make.

Oh and the one thing I would say, is that you need to find one form of 'behaviour management' and stick to it, for it to be effective. To have tried all of these methods by the time he is just 2, sounds lacking in consistency.

I think 2 is a bit young for time out too.

Really, the tools of the trade for this age are 1. ignore all tantrums

1. help them to be good
2. distract rather than discipline
3. if all else fails open teh wine

It isn't fair to the OP to labour the point TC, but she said 'I responded by slapping him several times on the hands and face.' about a 23 month old baby!

What else would you care to call it?

Poor you - I've no real advice but just wanted to empathise as I've had days where I could cheerfully abandon my three...

Tiredness makes everything seem worse so I would try to have an early night wherever possible even if it means going to bed at the same time as him. You sound like you're doing your best in very trying circumstances so don't be too hard on yourself.

Poor you - I've no real advice but just wanted to empathise as I've had days where I could cheerfully abandon my three...

Tiredness makes everything seem worse so I would try to have an early night wherever possible even if it means going to bed at the same time as him. You sound like you're doing your best in very trying circumstances so don't be too hard on yourself.

Message withdrawn

She;s asking for help, don't go labelling. Heck, I am watching with interest as I would LOVE some anger management classes, despite being better than I was at coping with Ds, I still lie awake at night wondering if I could get more help with it and NEVER smack him.

Nobody seems to know where to get this help.

Longleggedloon, welcome to MN and well done for being so brave to post asking for help.

Please read this thread

Have lots of sympathy for you - it sounds really tough and you are obviously at the end of your tether. I'm sure others will have better info. than I about the professional help available, but I do wonder about what you said regarding the childminder and two things spring to mind. Is he REALLY happy and well-behaved with her or is he scared and miserable and taking it out on you, where he feels safer?. OR - if that's totally off the wall and you have great confidence in her, could you have a really detailed talk with her about what she does, her strategies etc. The H.V. seems a bit away with the fairies - either that or you covered up how desperate you feel.

Hi, I will watch this thread with interest as I have a 21mo who has turned into a nightmare over the last few weeks. The most annoying things are tantrum EVERY time we try to change his nappy or get dressed/undressed, thus leading to having to physically hold him down if we can't find some way of bribing him into it... Also the constant "NO!!" every time youtry to get him to do anything. It's just so exhausting and infuriating, especially when you're tired or not feeling 100%

I empathise with the anger, although I've never hit him I do match him at times and just scream at him when it gets too much

I have no answers (am hoping other people will provide those!) but wanted you to know I empathise... The only thing I find helps for me is the mantra "its only a phase" and to remind myself its an important part of him gaining independence

Re the hitting, I think if you ever do it again you should seek help over this - he is tiny and you should not be hitting him in anger. It is understandable but not right and shouldn't become a habit.

Sorry things got so stressful today.

I know you say you have tried everything and nothing works; I think you're giving up too soon! Your child is only 23 months old and therefore cannot have been behaving like this for THAT long. Months and months, years actually, of a good consistent approach are needed. You need to stick with it a good while yet.

You don't need a behavioural specialist I'm pretty sure.

You need to keep calm and keep to distraction basically. Your child is not even yet of an age where the 'discipline' tecchniques are often recommended, like time out etc.

Lots of children hit other children. It's very common and he will grow out of it

Saying no to every suggestion is very common too, it's a part of a developmental stage which is to do with him realising he is an individual. You just need to find other ways of asking - keep him busy and distracted with something else, make a game out of dressing, just goof around with it.

Don't give attention to not eating - It's part of that individualising process. With my ds I found a good trick was to put his food on my plate and let him pinch it which was far more fun it seems than having his own plate! Don't make the mistake either of thinking toddlers need a certain amount of food; they can eat surprisingly little and be very healthy indeed - unless your son is actually losing weight I wouldn't worry.

I think one other main thing is for you to learn some ways to keep calm.

Dont give this little boy the power to make you this mad. You have more power and control than he does by a long way; don't let him make you feel otherwise; even if it's just by ignoring him you are taking control; doesn't matter if his tantrum doesn't stop; that's not something you can do for him. He can do it himself. Kids do have to learn to govern their feelings, he needs to experience it to learn.

Try Parentline Plus for local parenting courses, you may find they run a short course that might help you learn to keep calm.

longleggedloon - hi - welcome to mumsnet

My ds2 was exactly as you describe (and after having a laidback ds1 it was such a shock). Much to my regret he was on the end of a smack more than once. None, and I mean none, of the usual methods of dealing with tantrums or toddler behaviour worked. Plus he was a 'runner' and put himself in danger more than once. I'm not condoning the hitting - it's wrong and you have to stop but I do know how you feel.

I think you need to understand why he is like this. It's mainly frustation due to lack of communication skills I'm sure. The babble in M&T for example used to send ds2 over the edge. He wants something and he can't express it. As TC mentions my ds had some major hearing problems which were also affecting his speech we got those sorted and his behaviour improved almost overnight.

I know it's hard to ignore them when they are in a rage but it's the best way. ds2 wouldn't sit on the naughty step and this shutting them in the room business and holding the door shut I don't like - in some ways that's as bad as a smack. We had a big beanbag and when he was throwing himself around I would put him on it and leave him to it. Try not to isolate yourself - I know you feel judged when your child is attacking other children or you have to follow him around but having no social contact isn't good for you.

Does he sleep well? If he's raging first thing I wonder if he's not.

Your son's behaviour does seem extreme. My experience of toddler trouble is nothing like yours.

There is a "Special Needs" board on Mumsnet, where you might like to post this. I am not saying your son is SN. It's just that the lovely ladies there have enormous experience in dealing with rage/tantrums and they give good advice.

Disregard the "stop abusing your child" comment. Mumsnet is usually better than that. You are only human and losing your temper once is of course not abuse.

O.k. so hitting round the face is not cool, But lets give this lady some help and support here.
His hitting other children needs firm handlying, but anti smakers will tell you that it is certainly not o.k. for you to hit them becasue that is just encouraging his hitting.
What does he really love ? Your attention ? - withdraw it
Does he have a favourite toy/tv programme ? I normally advise 'how to talk so kids listen book' which does not advise punitive measures, but in this case, if you can't even take him to tumble tots to let off some energy becasue of his hitting , this has to stop.
He behaves well at nursery - so he does know how. Are you gentle enough and giving him choices, but also maybe you need to be firmer too - just put up with no nonsense.
I think you need a break aswell. Get someone/anyone - dh a friend to take the children , just for a bit ot give you a break.

soapbox - I understand how strongly you feel about threads like these, I really do, but I really wouldn;t call the OP a child abuser.

Also, "Babies are like mirrors, they play back the behaviour they see." I don;t really agree with that. My DCs whack each other round the head and lob food across the room on a thrice daily basis. I can assure you they haven't learned that from me.

In answer to the OP, I do believe you've tried the common-sense parenting techniques. Unfortunately there is no guaranteed method of geting your DC to behave well...or even just not to behave abysmally

There was a recent thread by RedMist here which had some very helpful tips on it. A couple that have stuck in my mind are the imaginary film crew, using your bedroom as a refuge, and forcing yourself to e.g. read your DC a story, even if it means choking back the sobs. Hopefully this will make more sense if you read the thread

You have my sympathy - it's bloody bloody gruelling sometimes. You DS is probably just going through a phase. You will get through it

Arse - x-posted with RedMist

Ah now you see- I labelled the behaviour not the person! I did not call her a child abuser.

I also did give both support and advice and openly aknowledged the limits of both!

It's a difficult age. I smacked my son for the first time at 21 months (he was running down the corridor with a carving knife- very long story but a bit of a climber- and I had never been so shocked in my life...) It doesn't feel good, I know.

What worked a bit was offering him relatively closed options: Ie 'Would you like to wear the red trousers or the green ones?' rather than completely open ones. I think that toddlers feel scared by having totally free rein on decisions. Also, is he sleeping enough? If not, it might improve his temper if you could get him to sleep more... Also, when he behaving badly, shutting him in his room is not going to hurt him, and will help you to simmer down. He"s still small enough to woman-handle into a room away from you.

I know it's hard. Hang in there.

soapbox - but surely a person whose behaviour is abusive is an abuser? Sorry - I don;t want a row with you. I know you have good intentions and wise advice. I just don't think the OP deserves to feel any worse than she no doubt already does.

No more so that a child who does something naughty is a naughty child.

Labelling the person makes it sound permanent - something you can't change. I don;t think that is the case with the OP - or she wouldn't have bothered posting.

I didn't choose my words without thinking carefully

I have to object to soapbox saying children are mirrors. For the first time, with child three, I had/have a hitter and like the original post have had to stop M & T and tumbletots. And like the original post nothing seems to work. None of my other children did this and it is dire to deal with.
Some children are just bloody awkward and it is nothing to do with the parenting.

Soapbox - semantics.
She knows she did wrong. She wants our help, not condemnation.

OK - I would feel equally awful to be described as a child abuser, or as someone who has abused her child.