I've just smacked my 23 month old and generally feel unable to cope with him

[longleggedloon]

This is my first time on Mumsnet. I logged in tonight in desperation looking for someone else in a similar boat. I can't find any solace in the threads I've looked at as all the replies make handling tantrums so easy. I've tried everything everyone suggests e.g. ignoring, saying No, being consistent, letting him choose wherever possible, loads of praise ... nothing works. I can't reason with him as he has very little language. He hits me and other children, he has tantrums for no apparent reason (this morning when he got up at 7am and called for his daddy, daddy went down, said hello and he flew into a rage...), refuses to eat, says no to every suggestion (bath, food, dressing etc etc). I could go on and on about the numerous incidents in a single day. I can't go to toddler groups or Tumble Tots which we signed up for stupidly as he hits other children and then other mums look at me in digust. Despite all this I've carried on being consistent, firm with things that matter, flexible with things that don't, sticking to his routine, planning outings, trying to play with him more. I've read Dr Green's Toddler Taming. However recently he has got even worse and more and more I've been losing the plot, my temper and slapping him in response to him slapping me. Tonight, he was bashing me, the cupboards, throwing food around etc. so i tried to grab him to put him out in the hall where he goes to calm down. But he hit me hard and I responded by slapping him several times on the hands and face. The worst of it is that I wanted to do worse, I was so angry. The irony of all of this is that he goes to a childminder 2 days a week and is perfectly behaved there. It is no good advising me to talk to my H.V - I have and she just smiled and said "they can be pesky can't they?". Does anyone know of any other help I can get? Are there anger management classes for mums or behavioural specialists for 2 year olds?

Thank you again. I've read through the thread again and my initial feeling of upset at the child abuser comment has subsided and I've realised how much wonderful support is out there. So many suggestions...I will look up signing classes and talk to my HV about courses for parents etc. I do think he is frustrated and of course he needs understanding and love. It is just difficult when you never get any love back. Wish he'd give me a cuddle occasionally! Doesn't help that I am pregnant with DS2, due in June, and am terrified that DS1 will be a nightmare with new baby. Have to find a way through before then.

Hi LLL,

Lots of great advice on here so won't add any more but wanted to invite you over to the March 06 Post Natal thread as I think your DS will be two soon like our terrors? It's a slow thread with only a few of us but 3 of us also have older kids with a two year age gap so we know just how you feel and also what'll happen in June!!!! Anyway do pop by and meanwhile good luck with finding a course - contact your local Surestart too if HV is no use.

Have just read the Red Mist thread as suggested which has helped me put aside Soapbox's comments. Do you surf MN looking for people to label as abusers and then put them down, Soapbox? It is precisely this attitude that makes mums having trouble not seek help for fear of being labelled. Last night I felt so desperate that I was sobbing for hours in my husband's arms and pacing around the hours in the middle of the night. Anyway, will stop posting and go do something nice today while I have a chance. xx

thanks laundylover - will do

Aha, you are pregnant! My dd's behaviour felt much more overwhelming during pregnancy, im due in a few weeks and am sure that she is more demanding and clingy as she realises something is changing. I am also hormonal and far more likely to snap. I think it is often the way!

LLL - sorry you're having such trouble - i really feel for you. FWIW, the HV told me that my dd (2.2) was tough - but that in her experience horrible toddlers made for easier teenagers...only 10 to 12 years to go then ...
I find that putting DD in her cot for a minute or two and walking away when she hits me works reasonably well (obviously, not so well that she never does it again, but not again that day!) And when she comes out, she hugs me...
Sorry not to be more help, but I hope it works out for you.
The other thing I do - don't know if it works, but I try really hard to praise her when she does do something good - eg allow me to put on her PJs, change nappy, whatever. She loves these fruit bar things - and if she's good, without me asking/ fighting, I'll give her one as a surprise. Good luck.

LLL- welcome back! I've had days when I've sobbed in frustration at my childrens' behaviour, and I am far from a perfect mum! I think you must be a good mum, since you are putting so much time and effort into finding a rational solution to your son's behaviour- and I'm sure you WILL find a way! In my group of mummies in RL nearly every week one or other of us is moaning about how horrible our child has been that week, and telling the others of the devilry said wee monster has been up to- it helps to know that other people's kids aint saints!! Those smug mums you see at M&T groups- remember you are just seeing a snapshot of their child/life- you don't know what goes on behind closed doors! Keep your chin up, and have a good GRRRRR when you need to!

Hi LLL. Have only twice smacked my ds (who is now 4.10) and one of those time (when he was around 2) was a completely instinctive thing like you suggest in response to him biting my boob. Not a thought went through my head other than to get those gnashers away from my norks. This did not of course ease my guilt, but I do know where you are coming from.

Ds is also prone to aggression and I have talked about this often on here. If I am totally honest with myself, one of the reasons for this is that dh models agressive bevaviour to him. He does not hit him (and never ever has) but he will snap easily and at times be a bit rough putting coats on etc. It is noticeable that ds is at his worst when dh is at his worst. If dh and I playact at being perfectly calm jolly parents (and that's hard), we often find it has quite a dramatic effect.

People are not looking at you in horror at toddler groups. IME, most parents expect you to deal with any hitting and are justly annoyed if you do not, but that is all they expect and do not view either you or your child as Atilla the Hun becuase of it (although I know it does feel like this). If you feel unable to go out, part of your son's behaviour may stem from boredom and frustration.

Good luck.

PS I'm pregnant too - and it makes it much harder, I think for them and for us.

LLL I know where you're coming from. My 7 year son with SN abuses me and DH daily. He bites right through the skin on our arms so that we regularly have holes through the top layer(s) of skin with blues and yellow bruising round them in various degrees of healing. He offers me a hug and as I go to hug him he bashes me repeatedly round the head. He pulls out mine and DD's hair by the root - sometimes he has handfuls. I have had mine cut short but he still does it to the front. DD wants me to shave hers off with the clippers.

He kicks and punches me in the breasts when I am changing him, so much so that they permanently feel bruised and sore. He slaps me hard round the face and head and pinches me with all his might as I am trying to wrestle him into his car seat harness.

I am at the end of my tether. I have told social services many times. I have begged for Unisafe training but it's not available in our area. (Perhaps it is in yours? You could ask.. or maybe trave/pay for it yourself if you have the means? Have a Google..)

2 nights ago, as I wrestled in him into his pyjamas, whilst he was trying to gouge my eyes out and tears streamed down my face (partly from self pity probably) and my breasts where in agony from being repeatedly kicked, I slapped him twice on the arm to shock him into stopping the onslaught, and dumped him in his room with more force than I should have.

And I not a smacker.

Perhaps Soapbox or someone would like to report me for child abuse? Go ahead, perhaps then someone from social services will help us. We certianly don't know where to turn.

I don't know if this makes you feel any better but the other day my two and a half year old dd led me to such extremes that I picked her up by her arms and practically threw her into her bedroom and closed the door just to get some space.

This does not make me a child abuser. This makes me a human being who is at the end of her tether!

And although I don't particularly agree with hitting children, sometimes, it gives them the jolt they need to think that enough is enough.

Sorry if that's going to piss people off but we are all only human and we can only be pushed so far by the people we devote our entire lives too!

LLL, please don't worry about how he will be when the new baby arrives.
I have spent far too much time worrying ahead (particularly about Ds1 who was very hard work but is now 8 and is a total love).
Try to take it one day at a time.
Oh, and know that he loves you very much indeed, some children just aren't cuddlers.

Here LLL Unisafe at home Perhaps not what you're looking for but maybe they could offer you some advice to change the behaviour, now, while he's still little. You don't want a life of daily beating from your own child; it's miserable, depressing and relentless and very very isolating.

LLL your son does sound a little more challenging than the average.
I would try the signing, get his hearing and sight tested, try and see if his behaviour is sugar related, look at the list of symptoms for children who react to food additives (its not just bad behaviour, if you read the descriptions of ALL the symptoms carefully, you may be able to recognise your child)....

What you said about flying into tantrums reminded me of my own younger brother. He turned out to be reacting to tartrazine and other food additives and changed overnight without them. Like you, my mother was permanently knackered.

Hope you manage to make some progress with him, whatever it turns out to be, and dont feel too guilty about the smacking.

shiny

Shiny, what can I say?
Some of us, myself included, have absolutely no idea of what others go through every single day.

LLL i am sooo glad you have come back, you are clearly a loving mother faced with a challenging little boy. You definately need some help with him, regardless of the smacking actually. I think that has brought your issues to a head though. You say again he is struggling with sight and language, i think much of his behaviour is due to sheer frustration. I dont have any advice on how to deal with this really. Do you have a Homestart scheme in your area?? It might help to talk face to face with another mother who has had similar problems, even if she can only tell you that what she did was lock herself in the cupboard and scream

HAve you been given any advice at all from your HV regarding his speech development? I think it is time to start stamping your feet about this. I can offer some tips that helped with my DD, the best thing i was ever told was offer choices; Never expect him to have the word sort of thing. So instead of just giving him his juice, say, would you like juice or water, that way you are giving him the word to say. It wont work straight away, you may have to answer for him, oh, you want juice, XX is having juice, thats nice juice "juice juice juice juice juice" it drives you nuts, but it works, its staggering how much. Then if you are playing with a car for instance, is that a car or a dog? Not do you have a car, becuase he will say yes! IF you ask him what he has, he may struggle. I found this brought DDs speech on in leaps and bounds. She still tantrums like mad (shes 2.5) but its now genuinely when she is being a two year old that cant get her own way, rather than a 2 year old that cant get her point across.

As someone suggested, try the Special needs bit of the board. I received lots of advice about my DD on there, i often felt guilty because she doesnt have any specific needs but it really helped.

Another thing, don't be so hard on yourself, so what if he isnt a cherubic little boy who sits there playing nicely (how dull is that anyway) - there is a little damien at one of the play groups, his poor mum looks knackered, but i just watch his antics all the time and think hes bloody gorgeous

shiny, i have just read your post and my heart aches for you. I have similar battles with my two year old, but i cling on to the fact that its because she is two. The anti-smacking brigade really don;t live in the real world do they.

Shiny your post brought back alot of memories for me. I've not been through what you have but observed my Mum go through it with my sister. My dad used to work nights and the moment he left the house an onslaught of physical and verbal abuse against my mum would begin. My brother and I would often pin her down to try and stop it. I'm sure from the outside our methods as a family to get through these nights would bring about a tyrade of criticism. I'm sorry that in the 20 years that have gone by there is still an horrendous lack of support.

LLL: welcome, I know you are new but I hope you can see that there a more people here wanting to support you rather than judge you.
My 2 year old is testing me grreatly and the moment and the build up of rage he creates in me scares me. I know a lot of people don't believe in time out for a 2 year old but it's what gives me the space to breathe and calm down and thus stops me doing anything I would bitterly regret. Keep posting.

Welcome to mumsnet longleggedloon.
I just wanted to give you my support as well especially as you mentioned that you are expecting again.
My first daughter was lovely and quite good when I look back now .
Back when she was 23mths i thought she was a nighmare - tantrums the lot - as well as having tantrums at bedtime. She would only go to sleep if my husband or I stayed with her. At the time I was in bits. However I was 6 months pregnant with second daughter. All I could think was how could I cope when the baby comes. Its the fear of the unknown and the hormones talking.
You have had great advise on here and I hope you can get the support you want.
It is a phase and the lack of words will be frustrating for him. Have you thought about baby sign language.
Big hugs to you and hope everything works out.

Glad you came back, LLL - this place can be very supportive if you accept that all human life is here so you get a real mix of replies and need to take those that are helpful.

Shiny - so horrified at what you are going through on a daily basis. What part of the country are you in?

LLL, just a thought - I noticed you're saying your son is a head taller than the other kids his age. I know several people whose children have problems fitting in for exactly that reason. Although it sounds bizarre, I have seen this in action and it seems that the other kids expect them to behave as if they are older, because they are taller.
Just wanted to mention this to back up what (nearly) everyone else here has said, that there could be all sorts of reasons why your ds is acting up and you mustn't think it's anything you've done.

LLL, it doesn't sound like typical toddler behaviour to me. I think you may be right about the speech/frustration thing though.

Are there any positive parent courses being held nearby - they helped me when I got into a shouting loop. At the very least it will help you to talk to other people who feel that they need a bit of a boost to their parenting. We all know what we should do but sometimes we get tired and things spiral out of control.

I have a friend who has a son who can be violent to her and his family - he is very rarely like it with strangers. She tries very hard to hold on to her temper. She tends to hold shouting in reserve for these occasions saying she would rather be a calm mum generally who shouts when really riled than a shouty mum who smacks when really riled. She has lost it a couple of times with him though not for a long time - and his behaviour can be really challenging (and it's not a reflection on her parenting I might add - it isn't always that simple).

I think it is important to accept that you have the capability in you (and I too have come close on a couple of occasions)and then work out ways of keeping your self calm - even if it is just to walk away and go into a different room.

The other thing I would suggest is to look at his diet - is there anything that could be setting him off?