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Original poster

suitable response to dd being so rude to her piano teacher he "never wants to see her again"?

46 replies

hatwoman · 03/12/2007 21:37

wasn't particularly easy hearing someone talk about dd like that. but I fear he had a point. I wasn't there at the lesson but he was still livid when I called him 3 hours later. she told him he was a bad teacher, and, apparently was totally unempathetic about it - she didn't even seem to recognise that what she was saying was rude and very hurtful. knowing how she can be sometimes I can imagine what he means. in her defence I take responsibility for this - she hasn't wanted to have lessons for a while now and I was going to tell her we would call it a day at Christmas. I had underestimated ho fed up she was - she clearly she had other ideas - the teacher says she definitely set out today to get him to refuse to come back and "you can tell her she got what she wanted". I feel like crap - I have ballsed up on so many fronts.

However she can't be allowed to get away with this - she can't take away the idea that she can get what she wants by behaving like this - so what do we do? more piano lessons are not an option.

at her school parents' evening recently the teacher described her as an "absolute delight" - always concentrating, doing her work to a high standard, always polite. she is, by nature, a conservative girl - not for one second a rule breaker - so I am mystified where she got the idea that she could speak to the piano teacher like this. not to mention gutted. she wouldn't behave like this at school in a million years. at home she gets into trouble not for initial wrong-doing - which is never more than you'd expect from a 7 year old - but from her apparent inability to admit she is wrong - always providing excuses for her behaviour, trying to blame it on anything other than herself, trying to make points totally irrelevant (eg it wasn't this week it was last week) etc etc

what to do about the piano teacher?

OP posts:
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SantaClausFrau · 03/12/2007 21:39

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deenymcqueenygoreandguts · 03/12/2007 21:41

get her to write a letter of appology.

SantaClausFrau · 03/12/2007 21:43

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Original poster
hatwoman · 03/12/2007 21:44

yes definitely. but I think that's a minimum isn;t it? it's not a high price to pay for ending the lessons - which was what she wanted.

OP posts:
Dinosaur · 03/12/2007 21:47

Not really trying to defend her - it sounds quite out of order - but I am not sure that 7 year olds are always that empathetic - especially wrt grown-ups - I think that your average 7 year old often assumes that grown-ups are - well - grown-ups and are impervious to their barbs!

I think letter of apology, but don't stress over it too much.

Is piano teacher a bit of a weed? Not that that would excuse it, exactly, but it might explain it, kind of...

Marina · 03/12/2007 21:49

Agree with the others, a letter of apology is called for I think
Am so sorry hatwoman, what a nightmare.
At least he has been honest with you - some music teachers might not, for fear of getting into a heated argument with a parent.
We all coax our dcs into continuing with something they are vaguely fed up about, so stop beating yourself up about continuing with the lessons.
With ds it worked with Cubs (he took to it) and definitely did not with group swimming.
The only reason he probably didn't let his last teacher have it with both barrels was he was half-drowned and panicking at the time .
The refusal to admit she is wrong/apologise is a headache for you too, oh dear.

SantaClausFrau · 03/12/2007 21:49

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gigglewitchyouamerryxmas · 03/12/2007 21:50

Don't take it personally.
About the piano teacher - get her to write a brief apology in some sort of thankyou card?
About DD - explain that whilst honesty is good, you must remember that you should never say something that will 'hurt' the person you are saying it to. Explain that what she said has upset her (ex?!)teacher.
My DS is 7 this month and is "honest" to the point of brutality. after a few huge, and genuine, apologies (mainly to grandparents in our case) he seems to be getting it. DS is a well behaved and polite child at school too, but the stuff you mention about trying to justify themselves is also a big one, he will never confess to being in the wrong, as it were.
Out of the mouths of babes and all that - there must have been something that made her feel that he wasn't a 'good teacher', at the end of the whole sticky business, although not necessarily admitting it to DD, ask around and see if she did have a point

good luck!

Marina · 03/12/2007 21:51

dino, IME a piano teacher who is frank about a child's rudeness and tells the family to sling their hook is far from weedy
While empathising with hatwoman's dilemma, I'm impressed tbh

Nightynight · 03/12/2007 21:52

reading the OP, I was getting the impression that your dd was at least 10.

She is 7 and managed to scare a piano teacher away? I would say tha tthe teacher sounds a bit immature and not particularly empathic with children.

I personally would not go down the punishment route. I'd tell her that I understand, but she is not to do it again. And not let her know that she scared the teacher away - pretend its your decision.

Original poster
hatwoman · 03/12/2007 21:55

dinosaur - I do agree with that point to an extent - though I too am not defending her. but I do think he perhaps lacks a wee bit the requisite robustness for dealing with kids and/or has not quite got the size of them - although he does teach others so maybe that's rubbish!

santaclausfrau - it would take her a year to pay for 4 lessons! think that might be a bit harsh - much as I like the principle...

thanks for being sympathetic all.

OP posts:
Heated · 03/12/2007 21:59

I can remember at about your dd's age doing something similar. I'd complained about another child's parent & either that parent overheard me or it was reported back to her. Anyway she then phoned my mother to complain about my rudeness and I was mortified, cried my way through writing the letter of apology my mother made me write.

When I think back, there was nothing this woman really did apart from go on a bit at the start of school when I was anxious to get into class. But I also remember listening to my mother in conversation with my aunt, being a bit scathing about her children, one of whom was light-fingered and, snobby brat that I was, I picked up on this & affected my attitude towards her.

Could anything similar have happened with your dd?

I'd go with the letter of apology and leave it at that.

Original poster
hatwoman · 03/12/2007 22:02

she knows she scared him away - he told her!

dh and I were contemplating permanent confiscation of her ds. - something that makes her realise she has really done something in a different league to the normal stuff. as dh said deliberately upsetting people - being mean, selfish, unpleasant is right up there as amongst the worst stuff she can do.

OP posts:
WendyWeber · 03/12/2007 22:09

DD1 was sacked by her piano teacher when she was 5-6, although unlike yours he was a family friend and he had a daughter the same age as her; she just felt over-familiar and got cheeky I think.

He refused to teach her again for several years, and only grudgingly took her back at about 9 because we had sent to her someone he thought was dreadful. She did fine with him after that.

Does your DD want to continue with piano or not? Only I think in these circs I would try to confuse her and use reverse psychology to encourage her to do what she thinks she wants to do/not do - iyswim - regardless of what you think she should do.

(Does that make sense???)

Original poster
hatwoman · 03/12/2007 22:11

not sure I get you ww. can you say more - I am interested.

does your dd enjoy lessons now?

OP posts:
WendyWeber · 03/12/2007 22:13

Oh sorry, hadn't seen that she wanted to quit. The rudeness does need to be punished; but I think I would still try to go with the message that piano was probably too difficult for her and she is better off not trying any more...

Miaou · 03/12/2007 22:14

Rather than permanent confiscation of ds, how about a temporary one until her attitude improves? You could set a tangible goal for this (no idea what that could be though, sorry).

I'm trying to think of something that reflects the emotional impact of what she did. As you say, it's a bit more than "naughty act = punishment". Sorry you are in this situation.

WendyWeber · 03/12/2007 22:15

She's 25 now, hatwoman!

But she went on playing from 9 to about 17, up to grade 6-7, and is still a fairly competent player at about grade 3-4. She's doing PGCE this year and I think will find her ability increasingly useful.

Tovik · 03/12/2007 22:27

My child was sacked by a piano teacher once. Such is life.
I would get her to write a sorry letter and then forget piano forever. She sounds like a nice child, and probably so good in other areas of life that she can't bear the fact that piano is not her thing -- so she's taken it out on the nearest person.
I would I guess try to delve further into it by talking rather than punishment. I mean she's only seven and can't possibly understand herself why she's reacted this way. Musicians are difficult and precious and here's this pianist, probably brilliant, music degree n'all, and he's being ticked off by a seven year old so his reaction is understandably huffy too. I don't think it's a punishing thing, just a smoothing over and forgetting about thing. How articulate am I? Sorry but it is late..

Lauriefairycake · 03/12/2007 22:37

I do not think she was 'mean, selfish or unpleasant' and think you're daughter sounds like a lovely girl from what you said.

All she said was 'he was a bad teacher' - and translated that means:

'I'm failing to learn from you, I'm not enjoying it and I'm 7 so I'm not great at empathy yet and I don't want to do this anymore and this is the only way I know to protest'

The clues are in what you said, that everyone else describes her as a delight when she is motivated, being praised and being stimulated. She doesn't want to do piano anymore (it is not stimulating* her anymore) and you said you had already realised that so she chose to stop the only way she knew how.

I'm not saying that we should always give in or not persevere for a while etc but I am saying that she sounds great and maybe you could have had the conversation with her about stopping and that she was just to try for a little bit longer/get her on board for the last few weeks etc etc

Lauriefairycake · 03/12/2007 22:39

and imo she does not deserve punishing at all but maybe a small letter of apology to the teacher in case she hurt his feelings but also that you should acknowledge her feelings about not wanting to do it anymore.

frogs · 03/12/2007 22:49

This was me, in fact! Though I think I was a bit older, so even less excuse. I wasn't as directly rude as you describe, but clearly managed to have a sufficiently impressive line in insolence for said piano teacher to turf me out of her house on the spot and refuse to have me back.

Like your dd, I was not in any way a rebel -- I was generally conformist to the point of weediness. I just hated, hated and despised this particular teacher, and couldn't find a way of telling my mum how I felt (she was not a good listener, in any case, but that's another story). In my defence (and your dd's too, perhaps?) I had no real idea of quite how rude I was being. I think it is quite hard for kids to gauge the line between mild sarkiness and sharp-intake-of-breath insolence.

Personally, I'd have an in-depth debrief with her, to determine whether it was a one-off behaviour born out of this particular situation, or whether it was the thin end of a tactical wedge she might try to apply in other situations. If the former, I'd make her write a brief note of apology and let it go. If I suspected the latter, then I'd add in some mildly unpleasant but not appalling withdrawal of privileges.

Original poster
hatwoman · 03/12/2007 23:08

thanks for all these - certainly food for thought - I'm really glad we posted.

The fustrating thing is that she was actually quite good! but as seems to be her way she's not keen on learning - she can be quite cocky - not at school - but she does have a bit of a tendency to think herself a bit cleverer than she is. or, rather, to think other people don;t have much to teach her.

Laurie - I think your interpretation of her line of thought is almost right. but there's an element of cockiness too.

on whether she was "mean selfish or unpleasant" - I do take your point. I think what I meant is not so much that she was but that she did something that - in the grown-up world would be considered as such - so something it's our job to teach her not to do in order to help her be ready for that grown up world. of all the things upsetting other people is the thing both dh and I have the lowest tolerance for/feel most strongly about.

a real geniune thanks to everyone for your posts.

OP posts:
WendyWeber · 03/12/2007 23:17

Oh, I didn't mean that she wasn't good at it, hatwoman - just that implying that she wasn't up to it might make her rethink her attitude (and her opinion of her teacher)

Although having said that, some teachers are much better with small children than others; so it could be that, although her comment was regrettable, she might in due course get on better with a different teacher.

LynetteMistletoe · 03/12/2007 23:42

Your DD said he was a bad teacher. Maybe she doesn't like him, rather than doesn't like playing the piano? I agree with Tovik that talking to her rather than a punishment is the way forward.