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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

suitable response to dd being so rude to her piano teacher he "never wants to see her again"?

46 replies

hatwoman · 03/12/2007 21:37

wasn't particularly easy hearing someone talk about dd like that. but I fear he had a point. I wasn't there at the lesson but he was still livid when I called him 3 hours later. she told him he was a bad teacher, and, apparently was totally unempathetic about it - she didn't even seem to recognise that what she was saying was rude and very hurtful. knowing how she can be sometimes I can imagine what he means. in her defence I take responsibility for this - she hasn't wanted to have lessons for a while now and I was going to tell her we would call it a day at Christmas. I had underestimated ho fed up she was - she clearly she had other ideas - the teacher says she definitely set out today to get him to refuse to come back and "you can tell her she got what she wanted". I feel like crap - I have ballsed up on so many fronts.

However she can't be allowed to get away with this - she can't take away the idea that she can get what she wants by behaving like this - so what do we do? more piano lessons are not an option.

at her school parents' evening recently the teacher described her as an "absolute delight" - always concentrating, doing her work to a high standard, always polite. she is, by nature, a conservative girl - not for one second a rule breaker - so I am mystified where she got the idea that she could speak to the piano teacher like this. not to mention gutted. she wouldn't behave like this at school in a million years. at home she gets into trouble not for initial wrong-doing - which is never more than you'd expect from a 7 year old - but from her apparent inability to admit she is wrong - always providing excuses for her behaviour, trying to blame it on anything other than herself, trying to make points totally irrelevant (eg it wasn't this week it was last week) etc etc

what to do about the piano teacher?

OP posts:

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motherhurdicure · 03/12/2007 23:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

RosaLuxMundi · 03/12/2007 23:51

Does she get pocket money? If my DD did this, I think I would probably make her buy a small present such as flowers or chocs to go with the letter of apology, and stop her pocket money to pay for it.
My DD1 would be quite capable of the sort of rudeness you describe, without ever realising the effect it would be likely to have on the person she was being rude to. I have to say that I really do disagree with the posters who have said she shouldn't be punished - call me oldfashioned but if we don't teach our own children that they need to be polite and respectful to adults then we have no right to bemoan the general decline of politeness and respect in society at large.
I must be getting old.

Original poster

hatwoman · 04/12/2007 00:34

RLM - dh and I have talked and have come to the conclusion that frogs is probably right - yes there;s talking to be done and yes we are partly to blame for not having spotted the writing on the wall, but in the context of her current behaviour we do feel that something "unpleasant but not appalling" is in order. I do have sympathy for her but she does need to know that there were other ways of handling the situation.

motherhurdicure - it's very nice to know we're not alone!

I've said it about 3 times on this thread, I think, but I am really heartened by this thread. I feel supported in my moment of inadequacy .

OP posts:

RosaLuxMundi · 04/12/2007 00:53

Glad you have sorted it Hatwoman. It is so difficult to understand what is going through children's minds sometimes. I think 'unpleasant but not appalling' is the approach I would take too. I didn't mean my post to sound harsh; I was reacting to one or two posts on the thread that sounded a bit as if they felt it was OK for a child to speak to an adult like that. It sounds like this was a one-off blip for your DD, since her behaviour is generally exemplary, so it is worth trying to get to the bottom of it.

HeyThereNappiesGalore · 04/12/2007 01:08

im with laurie on this. i think 7yo's (and adults often too) often have a feeling of ineffectiveness, or a percieved inability to 'control' or effect their lives... and underestimate just how powerful their efforts to communicate can be.

shes awfully young to really have any concept of hurting a grown adults feelings - esp if she feels said adult has been causing her unhappiness for some time and no-one appears to be able to help her stop it. dyswim?

TwinklyfLightAttendant · 04/12/2007 01:31

Tis tricky, I feel for you. I remember during a recorder lesson being very cheeky to my teacher - she was a family friend, so I was quite cocky in the group - I was about 8. She had said something like 'don't eat too many easter eggs' to us all, because it was the holidays, and I replied, 'that applies to you too!' which I thought was funny, being a little kid - and she took mortal offence and told me she thought I was very rude. I was very very embarrassed. I hadn't meant any disrespect, just didn't undersdtand the thing I was saying and what it sounded like.

Perhaps it was something more like this than deliberate intent to hurt. 7 year olds don't get things like that really. don't be too harsh

HeyThereNappiesGalore · 04/12/2007 01:46

what the hell is rude about that tho?? i must really be missing something...

i know my bohemian upbringing was a bit odd at times, but... i mean, its not like you swore at her or anything - jeez, talk about oversensitive . did she think you were calling her a big fatty? if so, thats her insecurity spaking rather than your nastiness, no??

imo, adults should be adults and realise that children are childrena nd give them space to be so.

warthog · 04/12/2007 08:34

'Musicians are difficult and precious'

TwinklyfLightAttendant · 04/12/2007 08:35

Oh Lagore she was a bit funny, still is in fact - I live opposite her!

I was being precocious though. It took me right down getting told off like that!

TwinklyfLightAttendant · 04/12/2007 08:36

Who said that, warty?! I am one moiself! I'll ave em!

warthog · 04/12/2007 08:37

not if i get to 'em first!

Oenophile · 04/12/2007 08:48

My seven year old violinist DD2 was frequently rude to her very strait-laced violin teacher (it didn't help that DD1 had been an angel and the teacher adored her - didn't take to bolshy DD2 from the start!) Well I'd prefer to call it 'outspoken', but on one occasion, on the umpteenth reminder to keep her bow straight, DD2 told the teacher very sharply that she had noticed the teacher's own bow was not always straight. On another occasion, when reprimanded for playing out of synch with the piano, she told the teacher 'it would be easier if you could play your piano part properly'. I used to just about die during the lessons.

Part of the problem with music lessons is that the nature of it is such that there is very much more 'correction' than praise going on - it must feel to the child they are being constantly criticised and nagged. This is of course necessary to develop good habits, but a certain type of child resents it.

You have handled it just right in being obviously shocked and upset so that she will know it wasn't acceptable behaviour and that you are appalled. I sympathise though, it's really hard when you feel your child has let you down in this way, but she sounds very delightful in other ways so just accept it as a blip which you have corrected, and move on.

Miaou · 04/12/2007 08:50

But in a teaching situation, Nappies, there has to be a level of respect. Twinkly was in a group of children and by being cocky and answering back she could have been seen as giving the other kids a "green light" to behave the same way - which could quickly lead to the teacher losing control of the class. Even in a one-to-one session it is important to show respect.

I vividly remember being cheeky and cocky to my dance teacher in front of a group of younger children (I was about 8 at the time). She shouted at me in front of the whole class. She then took me on one side at the end of the session and spoke to me about how my behaviour would encourage others to do the same, good or bad. It had a big impact on me!

What is her attitude to the situation now, hatwoman? Is she still indifferent to the hurt she caused (or embarrassed and hiding it under a veneer of indifference?). Or does she understand the impact of what she said?

If she is genuinely sorry for what she did, then I would just go with the letter and maybe a little talk. If she still doesn't "get it" (or care) then maybe go for a further sanction. And don't beat yourself up too much about not recognising the signals that she was wanting to stop

Miaou · 04/12/2007 08:55

Argh just read frogs post and realised I have said just the same thing (but not as well worded!) Ignore me

TwinklyfLightAttendant · 04/12/2007 08:55

see, I am still affected after 25 years!!!!

TwinklyfLightAttendant · 04/12/2007 08:56

Ah Frog - want to be insolence buddies?

HeyThereNappiesGalore · 04/12/2007 09:14

yes, point taken miaou. i think youre right there, with the respect thing actually, now you mention it. my firts thought was to have respect for the child who obviously really didnt like the lessons or some aspect of them... but showing some respect for the teacher is no doubt quite imporant too hey, i did say it was a bohemian upbringing, didnt i?

Miaou · 04/12/2007 09:16

lol!!

SpacePuppy · 04/12/2007 09:22

Did not read all the posts, but I think she is old enough to face him personally and apologise for disrespecting him and attacking him in a way that made him feel hurt. If her behaviour was unprovoked and you allow her to get away with a little note writing then you are easy on her. By sticking up for her (as you say in her defence) you are excusing bad behaviour.

mylittleponey · 04/12/2007 09:25

I see more of a problem with the teacher - surely they must be used to kids having off days and even tantrums. If you want to continue lessons I'd find someone else.

blueshoes · 04/12/2007 09:33

I like Rosa's suggestion of a letter of apology and docking a bit of pocket money for a gift of contrition to the teacher. Along with the usual words of how unacceptable her behaviour was and how it got back to you and the other students and their mothers know about it yada yada.

hatwoman, if your dd is generally a delight and conservative by nature, I don't think it would be opening floodgates to let it stop there.

If the teacher won't take your dd back, then that is the consequence of her bad behaviour, that your dd must experience, and add in a word like "pity, you were so good at it too". It might be what she wants, but I suspect that if the option is taken away from her, she might start to think that she wants to continue at a later stage - but let her bring it up in any case.

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