I've heard about heuristic (sp?) play, does anyone know about it please?

[saythatagain]

For the life of me I can't even remember where I heard it being discussed, or maybe I was just ear-wigging! It sounded very interesting so first port of call for advice is, of course, mumsnet. TIA

ooh loads of questions

will try to answer lots - ds is in the shower being very heuristic with some funnels and a tube

Puppy yup I get the irritating v ironic thing. I see what you mean. I think most of the sellers are doing this in response to a need, rather than from any cynical exploitativeness, but if they appear in ELC then I'll think again / Although, you know, this style of play is SO marvellous, I honestly think paying £55, if that is the on;ly way you are going to do it, is worth it. I haven't seen the baskets you are talking about (no I don't advertise mine atm, people just tend to ask), but £55 is the price of about 3 large pieces of plastic tat, and I honestly think £55 on a basket would be money well spent. Money wasted, if you have time and energy to compile one yourself, but you see what I mean. I have had parents tell me their children play with theirs in a focused way for up to an hour + everyday (these are ones the parents have made themselves). I think that's hard to put a price on, really.

The collections of objects are wonderful for groups, yes. But also marvellous for one or two children at home. They get such a lot from it.

I think an advantage of buying one is that you have it. It's there. You don't have to spend time each day checking if the things in your cupboard are safe, and then getting them back and washing them because they are covered in dribble and putting them away. Someone earlier said they made a basket for their child and then took the bits back again because they needed them

Muppetgirl I was suggesting you read the thread so you could see others' comments about "is this just play?" There's been quite a bit of discussion on it.

Filly I don't know, that is interesting to think about. I don't think a baby can assemble their own treasure basket, so you would need to supply the objects until they get older. Obviously your kids playing with the fir cones they've collected is fab. Someone living in an urban environment may not naturally have access to feathers, shells, pebbles, fir cones etc as part of their everyday lives. I think it would be beneficial for them to deliberately get these items for their children, yes.

Also our homes tend to be less full of objects made from a variety of materials and textures. I noticed when I was assembling the baskets that a lot of things I was buying had to come from second hand shops and boot sales because the modern equivalent is made of plastic. Especially household objects. I do think if you have a wide variety of objects in your house then that's great. But if most things are made of plastic, then the baby isn't getting the fullest sensory experience from it. I am not saying that's a problem - but you might want to provide the most exciting textures that you can.

I don't really have a problem with buying in the things specially if you don't have them. I buy childrens' books and so on, I buy music cds for ds - I could tell my own stories and draw my own pictures and just sing my own songs. I also buy fruit + veg that are only found in other countries for us. We enjoy experiencing things that we wouldn't naturally come across in our own lives.

The supervision thing - no, you can't leave a baby alone with this. But sitting quietly next to them with a cup of tea (you can read a book or whatever, if you are comfortable all the items are reasonably safe - you're just there in case they get into bother, really) is not too taxing. And this style of play means that with your supervision they can experience sensory stimulation and exploration that they wouldn't otherwise be able to. Yes, the idea is that you keep it for a period of play each day, not just have it out. I would do it when I needed a break.

Ok ds says water has run cold

more later

thanks all for your thoughts and I am glad that as ever this provokes a lot of interest

Yes pistachio because you MUST NOT INTERFERE

it is very very important that you leave her to explore independently while you go on Mumsnet for hours

Message withdrawn

Danae LOL at "The Document"

I am jealous of the sand dollar and I don't even know what it is. Fossils are a fantastic thing to put in there and I had never thought of that before. Mind you I have a superb thrower at one of my groups, so I am moving away from the heavier kinds of objects before he kills one of us.

I love your descriptions of the nomadic rooting kind of play and the pinpointed busyness. This has really clicked with you hasn't it - that's how I felt when I first read about it. It was so simple and yet so.....huge

Things I consider intriguing and exotic are peacock and ostrich feathers, marble eggs, whole dried oranges, dried orange and grapefruit slices, palm pods, dried gourds, mini pumpkins (wildly popular with the babies, along with citrus fruit - I think they feel very cool and smooth and of course smell interesting), a fabulous felted wool ball made by MrsCarrot, small cloth bags filled with herbs and spices, baby safe mirrors, pieces of all sorts of fabric and all sorts of ribbon, etc etc etc

plus hundreds of oddments (odd being the operative word ) picked up from charity shops etc

Thank you so much for all the info. My HV did a session on this and I promptly forgot about it (struggling mother of three week baby at the time). Ds is now hitting himself happily on the head with a tea-strainer!

yay for tea strainers! Aitch got a lovely long heavy chain from me for her dd, who promptly gave herself a black eye with it

Thanks for "the document" Franny.

I think I would be worried about my LO putting feathers in their mouth. How do you make sure things like that are safe?

You're welcome Trixy. If you don't feel comfortable with an object, leave it out. There's loads of other things you could be using instead, and if you aren't relaxed, your baby can quite probably pick it up and feel inhibited in their exploration.

However it is always worth thinking about what it is you are worried about with regard to a particular object. What do you think could happen if your baby puts a feather in her mouth? Might she choke? You can get choke detectors that measure safe sizes of objects, as mentioned in "the document". Choose large feathers that won't be a choking risk.

Could the feather hurt her? Some feathers do have a scratchy kind of end. Choose feathers with a large smooth shaft with no pointy bits. I find peacock and ostrich feathers (often sold in craft shops or dressmakers) are ok.

Lastly could a feather be dirty or carry disease? Yes, possibly, depending on where you found it. The kind you buy in craft shops are very clean and I believe safe to put in the mouth. For 'found' feathers, it is up to you whether you feel comfortable that they have come from a reasonably clean source.

(mine play with feathers all the time in the local park - they dig holes in the mud with them - I haven't thought of disease tbh )

I hate noisy, beeping boinging toys, all get 'lost' in this house

dd1 used to love those free cd's at supermarket checkouts - free internet etc

I used to grap a handful and got peace and quiet all the way round

Yes I have free cds and old cd racks for them to slot them into also olive. The looks on the children's faces when they see "CDs I am allowed to PLAY WITH"

Avi will do

Darn it Avi, I can't find your email address. I should ruddy learn that I will never remember anyone's RL name, and just organise my address book by MN names

could you please CAT me or email on

frannyandzooey at india dot com?

Olive I don't think playing in the park with feathers is a risk. Putting them into your mouth could possibly be, I don't know. Ask someone sensible.

I am quite lax on hygiene (weird seeing as though I am v tidy at home)

they don;t tend to put things in their mouths anymore (4 and nearly 3) but hands, not sure, could be riddled with god knows

It was the disease thing that bothered me Franny. Didn't think about getting feathers from craft shops.

Pistachio I just got the new ELC catalogue and they have a whole section called "Action reaction" or something. Loads of beepy toys which they claim "will teach your baby about cause and effect". No they ruddy won't. Ooh it makes me quite cross really.

Oh and I am still thinking about the 6 y o heuristic play thing. I have to let it simmer for a bit

I've had a lovely day collecting things. I went round all the charity shops etc and have some great objects - and this is just the beginning.....

Had to endure some sarky comments from dh though, as I went mental last month throwing away loads of stuff he told me might come in handy one day - only to spot me buying replacement objects for the treasure boxes. I actually remember saying in an exasperated manner "Just how many of these does one familiy need?

Oh whoops

In my early days of heuristic hoarding dp would regularly come home to sights like 10 mug trees sitting on the window sill

I would say "Aren't you going to ask why there are 10 mug trees sitting on the window sill?"

He said "NO. I don't want to know."

I am just looking forward to visiting my parents - they haven't thrown anything away for about forty years.

Hah

you'll never get them to part with it

Franny. The under 18 months room at our nursery has a fantastic collection of 'bottles.' These are small plastic drinks bottles filled (and V well sealed!) with:

Water and glitter
Lentils (of course )
Feathers
Coloured water
Dyed rice

etc. etc.

These are V popular with our older babies.

This is a good thread, BTW, and you've given me some lovely ideas for updating our baskets.

I will just steal it, they will never notice..[evil]