I've heard about heuristic (sp?) play, does anyone know about it please?

[saythatagain]

For the life of me I can't even remember where I heard it being discussed, or maybe I was just ear-wigging! It sounded very interesting so first port of call for advice is, of course, mumsnet. TIA

For anyone who just wants a vague idea, it is letting children explore with natural and household objects. For babies these objects are collected together in a sturdy basket on which they can lean if necessary. Suggested items are:

Natural objects: Pine cone, large pebble, loofah, large shell, pumice stone, large feather, large cork, natural sponge, citrus fruit.

Wooden objects: egg cup, clothes peg, curtain ring, nail brush, small bowl, coaster, wooden spoon, napkin ring, small ornament, small lidded box.

Metal objects: spoon, bunch of keys, egg whisk, small sieve, length of chain, jar lid, small bowl, curtain ring, bracelet, bicycle bell, egg cup, bulldog clip, lemon squeezer, garlic press, small mirror in frame, metal keyring, tea strainer.

Aromatic objects: Citrus fruit, leather purse, lavender bag, rubber door stop, leather glasses case.

Noisy objects: Bell, whistle, piece of cellophane, chime ball, harmonica, castanets, small maraca, other shakers made from wood or metal, bean bag, rattle, bunch of keys, tin or box filled with dried beans and glued firmly shut.

Fabric pieces: scrap of velvet, fur, silk, corduroy etc.

Other interesting items: paint brush, toothbrush, ribbon, small thick glass jar (eg individual sized jam jar), marble egg, empty salt cellar, string of ?pearls?, raffia mats, small baskets, shaving brush, wicker ball.

For older children you need collections and combinations of the same type of object. Suggestions are:

Jar lids Bunches of keys
Wooden pegs Drinking straws
Curtain rings Seashells
Ribbons Ping pong balls.

You will need ideally at least 50 of each item plus at least 10 each of your choice of the following containers:

Large tins Straw baskets
Cardboard tubes Mug trees and kitchen roll holders
Wooden or bamboo bowls Wooden or cardboard boxes.

The goal of heuristic play is to stimulate children with a variety of interesting non-plastic textures, smells, tastes, noises and colours, and to indulge their natural curiosity, and to encourage experimentation and discovery. Plus you get to sit and put your feet up while they do it.

IMPORTANT: the heuristic objects are not toys and children must not be left unsupervised with them.

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Oh Danae I am really pleased to hear that! Yes the 50 of each does mean 50 bunches of keys I'm afraid. You probably haven't got these lying around the house but it would not be too hard to get hold of 50 lolly sticks, 50 straws, 50 pine cones, 50 sea shells, 50 pebbles, 50 wooden pegs etc. This type of play initially takes slightly more commitment to get started with, but once you have the materials, then they will be much used and hopefully last a long time.

Asking around your friends and family can be useful as they often have stuff lying around not being used. SMA formula tins are brilliant for heuristic play and using them like this saves them from landfill

Oh, and anyone who emailed me - my stupid email server is not letting me send attachments right now. I have no idea why. I'll try again later, or may try from dp's email account if I have no luck.

Thanks so much F&Z - dd is 3, so I presume she's classed as 'older'. I know it sounds anal but I do find it quite fascinating. My SIL is expecting in November so I shall enjoy passing all these pearls of wisdom on to her. It would appear that you can save youself quite a lot of money in the process too!

By which I mean toys and 'other stuff'

F&Z i've got a question: why not plastic? i can keep my son entertained for ages with silicon spatula, salad servers, plastic coloured bowls.

(and what is it with radiator valves? i turn away for a second and turn back to find him crooning and licking the pipes...)

Please don't put rubber gloves in any nursery play boxes - I am allergic to latex and if my DS had been playing with rubber gloves I would swell up like a pumpkin - and I bet I'm not the only one!

DD has several wnaky baskets liberally distributed around the house. She does love them though.

I'd been giving her household tat to play with anyway, but read F&Z's list ages ago and used it to put more stuff together - thanks F&Z . Will have to go through it soon though to remove all the unsuitable things before DS gets on the move...

I vaguely remember the term heuristic from my teacher training but had forgotten any of the theory i learnt, concentrating on teaching older dc, but it must have rubbed off as all my dc have always had a large, varied and weird assortment of 'toys' - much of which was looked upon as slightly kooky by my antenaltal group friends. i did it because althogh thye were bought all sorts by grandparents they showed no interestedand what they loved best was pulling out stuff from cupboards and picking stuff up. obviously not quite so developed as the proper stuff but i'm glad to have been vindicated when others thought me weird...mind you they still do over other things i do...

Have emailed you Franny.

Danae - am glad I'm not the only person who's house has turned into one big treaure basket. I've decided to use it to excuse the fact that we have so much stuff lying around. It's to encourage ds to explore and discover different textures dontcha know and not fecklessness at all

Saythatagain - yes the treasure baskets, although interesting to older children, are really designed for non-mobile babies. Once your child is walking, or even crawling around lots, they could get a lot more from the "older" heuristic play suggestions.

Bluestocking oh no! I was thinking about the Marigold type washing up gloves - do they have latex in them? [ignorant]

Lulu obviously babies do enjoy playing with plastic objects and there is nothing wrong with that. But most of the objects (toys) we give to babies tend to be made from plastic, and they all tend to smell, feel, taste and sound very similar. Try shutting your eyes and exploring the average plastic object or baby toy with your other senses - it's not very pleasant or interesting. The treasure basket is intended to be as stimulating and varied as possible in terms of textures, smells etc, so trying to avoid plastic where possible is a good start. I do use some plastic objects that are particularly interesting for whatever reason.

MrsJC so glad she likes them

Clutteredup, [parents often tell me they do this at home anyway as they noticed their child enjoyed 'real' objects. You don't have to come to a class or read a book to enjoy heuristic play with your children - we are just swopping ideas and information here.

Bookthief I will tackle this email thing later, but it might not be today. Sorry, I will get the info to you all in time.

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babies and toddlers wired up to learn thorough exploring, fiddling and "getting into mischief". why can't we just let them explore in our handbags, kitchen cupboards, under trees etc. aren't we just creating more stress for ourselves and confusion for the children if we a) stop them emptying the cupboards onto the floor and b) spend hours creating piles of stuff that they are allowed to muck around with?

[moany old lady emoticon]

jeez i'll be saying political correctness gone made next

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so, have I got this right? You collect up all the old tat you have lying around, put it in a basket, and it's the latest thing in child development? That would make tidying up so much easier if all you need is a basket in each room. Can I claim DD1s bedroom (typical teenage mess) is a heuristic zone, or does that only work with little ones?

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Danae yes that's it, from about age 1 they want to stack, sort, fill, empty, transport, post, etc, rather than just "pick it up, stick in mouth, wave about, bang self on head, chuck it" which is the extent of their exploratory play at first.

The other great advantages of having LOTS of each item is that it works brilliantly in a group of toddlers, where they all want exactly what the other one has got and are incapable of sharing. If you have 200 ping pong balls (which I do ) this ceases to become a problem.

Is your dd very mobile? I would suggest the basket will still occupy her for a while, but if she is walking you may want to try the collections of objects. Mobile babies can't be bothered to sit still, and they drop and throw stuff a lot. Move on to the more harmless things if possible - the collection items are mostly light and unbreakable.

Witch, just letting your children muck about with stuff you have at home is great, it's fun and free. This is just a suggestion of how to extend their natural desire to fiddle about with piles of old crap, and once you've assembled the treasure basket your child can get hours and hours of focused enjoyment from it, while you do bugger all basically. Plus you don't have to keep saying "NOT my lipstick! Oh GOD he's eaten a twenty pound note!"

I am just working through the list of people who have emailed me (hello, lurkers!) and hopefully sending you all the information this evening. If you don't get it by the weekend please email again as something has gone wrong somewhere.

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LOL at clothes peg tantrum - if he likes pegs and straws, see if you can get some of those Ikea metal cutlery holders with the holes all round the outside. They can fill them with anything they want, slide clothes pegs on around the top rim, and post straws through the holes. Ruddy heuristic genius

Danae they mostly start with posting, filling and emptying before they move on to sorting and so on. Try her and you may be surprised. If you can get hold of the aforementioned SMA tins they are fab, as you can cut a hole in the lid with scissors, and they can then post the contents of the basket into one. Or 50 ping pong balls make a fab noise going in one by one

Dp nearly got arrested once for raiding a neighbour's recycling. They had put out about 20 or 30 fab cardboard tubes and I sent him on a mission to go and retrieve them under cover of darkness

Isn't this just, well, play?

dd (15 mths) can spend ages playing with a big packet of pasta (putting it all around the house in random places, according to some weird logic). And she always has a saucepan with a spoon and random bits from the kitchen when I am cooking. She has access to loads of normal everyday objects all the time and loves playing with them.

Am fascinated with her playing (am drama teacher who is considering moving over to playwork). Is 'heuristic play' a new concept or label? (like the EY Curriculum which seems to have formalised what most people knew and did already?) Or is this something my mum would have learned on teacher training (and maybe passed on) 30 years ago?