I've heard about heuristic (sp?) play, does anyone know about it please?

[saythatagain]

For the life of me I can't even remember where I heard it being discussed, or maybe I was just ear-wigging! It sounded very interesting so first port of call for advice is, of course, mumsnet. TIA

i refuse to believe i'm alone in finding it ironic that this idea is being packaged and marketed

Yes, sure - I'm not saying my objects are "better" than those you have got. I think I have probably got more textures, smells, etc, because I have spent huge chunks of the last 2 years trying to make the baskets as good as I can get them!

There are two things going on here I think:

1. giving parents confidence to do this kind of play with objects they have at home

2. providing very good quality items for those who feel their babies would enjoy different sensory experiences (they do enjoy it more if you swop the things in the baskets over), and providing materials for busy parents who feel they don't have the time to assemble one themselves (it does take time and a little bit of commitment).

I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. When someone contacts me about heuristic play I don't say "oh you have to buy a basket from me, you can't possibly do it by yourself". I say "Here's how to do it, have fun." If they then say "Can I get some of the stuff you have in your baskets because they look really great and I don't have them at home", then that's fine also. Nobody is ripping anybody off here. Well not "here" as in chez Franny, anyway.

Puppy do you find role play toys being sold irritating? Music cds for babies? Dressing up clothes? Playdough?

They are all things you could do at home, for free. Some people like to buy them.

If people want to buy it then up to them. I would object if it is being marketed that you cannot do it without this particular basket. (I object to signing similarly - 'if you do not come to our clas/buy our books you won't be able to communicate with your baby')

For me, it is an interesting label that play theorists have applied. Babies should be allowed to play with a variety of things. Most parents do this anyway, some (and childcare workers) need to know its ok (and beneficial) for children to play with ordinary objects. I find play theory fascinating - hadn't heard of 'heuristic play' but was doing it anyway. Love to know the theories behind instinctive approaches. Have also got some inspiration from this thread

Sorry that should read 'baby signing' (as a concept). I do not object to signing as a language.

Franny, do you know if heuristic play areas are useful to older children (in the 4-6 age bracket)?

If this below is it then I don't need to read the whole thread.

hmmmmm, yep, that still 'normal' play to me.

For anyone who just wants a vague idea, it is letting children explore with natural and household objects. For babies these objects are collected together in a sturdy basket on which they can lean if necessary. Suggested items are:

Natural objects: Pine cone, large pebble, loofah, large shell, pumice stone, large feather, large cork, natural sponge, citrus fruit.

Wooden objects: egg cup, clothes peg, curtain ring, nail brush, small bowl, coaster, wooden spoon, napkin ring, small ornament, small lidded box.

Metal objects: spoon, bunch of keys, egg whisk, small sieve, length of chain, jar lid, small bowl, curtain ring, bracelet, bicycle bell, egg cup, bulldog clip, lemon squeezer, garlic press, small mirror in frame, metal keyring, tea strainer.

Aromatic objects: Citrus fruit, leather purse, lavender bag, rubber door stop, leather glasses case.

Noisy objects: Bell, whistle, piece of cellophane, chime ball, harmonica, castanets, small maraca, other shakers made from wood or metal, bean bag, rattle, bunch of keys, tin or box filled with dried beans and glued firmly shut.

Fabric pieces: scrap of velvet, fur, silk, corduroy etc.

Other interesting items: paint brush, toothbrush, ribbon, small thick glass jar (eg individual sized jam jar), marble egg, empty salt cellar, string of ?pearls?, raffia mats, small baskets, shaving brush, wicker ball.

For older children you need collections and combinations of the same type of object. Suggestions are:

Jar lids Bunches of keys
Wooden pegs Drinking straws
Curtain rings Seashells
Ribbons Ping pong balls.

You will need ideally at least 50 of each item plus at least 10 each of your choice of the following containers:

Large tins Straw baskets
Cardboard tubes Mug trees and kitchen roll holders
Wooden or bamboo bowls Wooden or cardboard boxes.

The goal of heuristic play is to stimulate children with a variety of interesting non-plastic textures, smells, tastes, noises and colours, and to indulge their natural curiosity, and to encourage experimentation and discovery. Plus you get to sit and put your feet up while they do it.

IMPORTANT: the heuristic objects are not toys and children must not be left unsupervised with them.

Duchesse my son is 4 and he still enjoys it, but I think you might want to extend the materials available, for older children. Can I have a think about this and write some more later? I must stop ignoring my ds for a bit

tbh my BIG problem with this is the organisation that it seems to involve. I cannot imagine actually keeping 50 + little objects in a small basket. But I am well on board with this being a fabulous idea for anyone who has more organisation than me and am deeply tempted to sort one for db when it arrives, just so I can say I did SOMETHING wholesome.

hasten to point out i'm not commenting on your baskets specifically f&z, unless they happen to be the first ones that come up on google.

but the "busy parents" thing makes me rofl. how long does it really take to empty the kitchen drawer one day, bathroom cupboard next, store cupboard next... for FREE

think i'd buy one also tbh.

cannot be faffing with assembling wnaky baskets. I am a Busy Woman

Thanks Franny!

The school my daughter goes is trying to extend its class at the lower end of the age age range (four kids at the moment, but hoping to "grow" the class up to 8-10), and a heuristic play area would be very much in keeping with the aims of the school. It just sounds like it could do with a number of people working on gathering the things needed, rather than just leaving it to the teacher, so was thinking of doing some organising.

but filly i think the idea that it must be a collection of objects in a basket, that it must be organised in that way is missing the point totally. there's as much play value in choosing 3 random objects from kitchen drawer and giving those to baby while you get on with making tea.

the larger collections of objects take more organising but really not much. you buy one pingpong ball you buy a dozen

My son's favourite baby toys were: the sieve, the saucepans and wooden spoons, anything we were holding.. He was never really ever so keen on proper toys, and neither were his sisters.

I have to say that one of my children's favourite toys when they were little (say 3 or 4) were the enormous number of thick 8 inch long cardboard rolls that my father passed onto us. They became towers, arm protectors, pots, stilts to name but a few uses.

Now they put the 36 rolls of loo paper we have delivered at once to very good use, before we put them in the cupboard. Usually they see if they make a tower that is taller than the banisters in our open hall. Tis good fun, especially when it all collapses on their heads.

plus the huge collections are for groups of children, no? not an issue if you're at home with one or two.

muppetgirl - if you read my posts, gosh I have said the same as you.

Yes, it is 'normal' play.
BUT many people don't realise this is 'normal' play. So there is some education about (just like lots of people don't realise talking to your child is 'normal' or bf children is 'normal' - ha, not a debate. I ff..!)

Academics have given it a label (as with all types of play). For me, its fascinating seeing the theory and research behind the different things children do.

So read the bumpf if you're interested in child development, carry on doing what you're doing if you're not. No-one is claiming to have invented a new concept here (what I originally thought)

Actually, I do agree really Puppy (I think my dd gets most pleasure out of selecting her own bits to explore from the house, although obv sometimes I give her random things to play with).

f&z is not so much i find the idea irritating is just highly ironic. is supposed to be freeing us from pointless consumerism - that we are allowed to used household objects as toys. but then we are convinced/convince ourselves we have to go out and buy them, cos our own household objects aren't varied enough or we're too busy to take them out of the drawer

(off out now, laters )

My ds has a drawer at his granny's full of "stuff" - kind of tat that you would usually think about throwing out but is occassionaly useful. It's great as it automatically makes him feel at home when we get there (good cos we only get a chance to go there every few months) and my mum has something to remind her of my son (yes she really is that soppy!)

Thanks for document. Very interesting.

I think I agree with Puppy on the irony of 'discovery' play being given to mobile children. But I do think the idea of a treasure basket for sitting babies seems lovely - and would take time to compile.

mummy magic - I was a teacher, trainned as a ks1 worked in ks2 then taught music throughout the school from nursery to yr6.

I just find it really sad that the things we played with when we were children (we had nooo money so not many toys and made our own enetertainment) such as button boxes, contents of kitchen drawers, material tubes (my son LOVES running his cars down them increasing speed with height of tube -great for looking at forces) shampoo bottles in the bottom of the shower/bath, twigs/leaves/cones etc etc etc are being 'sold' to us a a new idea. My son's favourite thing is to play with a very large box (it's a ship, it's a house, he uses his saw on it etc)

I think it's a good idea to educate parents that this type of play is great and that you don't have to buy expensive toys to fulfill your child, I just think it's sad that parents seem to be soo far remeoved from play, what is play and how to play with your child.

Not trying to be rude, or upsetting to anyone. It's just a sign of the times I guess.

franny can I ask questions here

am reading thread and your replies.

is it the case that as wide a variety as possible of experiences in the treasure basket is desirable?

I suppose what I am struggling with is my own idea that kids should be playing with the normal objects around them, and that play should not be cut off from day to day life but seamlessly part of it. So it does feel a little wrong to buy objects specifically for kids to play with, even if they are very natural etc. Does that make sense? The only toys I buy are ones which the kids seem to need for imaginative play, eg little toy dollies, cars, etc though I must admit that we DO have a fair few toys as a result of them having relatives with a need to buy stuff for them.

Its a kind of feeling I have to do with rooting experiences.

So for example my kids play with my wool, my (short wooden) knitting needles, textiles etc. They play with pine cones that THEY have collected from the park and shells that THEY have collected from the beach.

I am not trying to put you on the defensive or anything but my knee jerk reaction is that this does create a kind of artificial situation. Also, as you know, I am very into kids playing alone and they can't really play alone with this stuff, can they? They need some supervision.

OTOH I can see how it could be useful as a special thing to do for a set time, like reading a story book or similar.

sorry if you've already answered this x 200.

I'd never heard of this before and find it very interesting. I'm going to buy some extra things and plan to collect some shells tomorrow. Ds2 is currently fascinated by all the straws, pan lids, pots, wooden spoon, lemon, baking paper etc that is surrounding him plus the 2 large beanbags that are technically my elder dc's. He's having great fun and I'd never thought to give him those things to play with. I do remember giving dd and ds1 things like that but just hadn't thought this time. I think it's a great idea actually.

I really like this. I will start a collection.

Muppetgirl, I totally agree (that's why I wanted to reply to you). Of course it isn't a new idea. Even the label isn't new. And yes, it needs to be about how every experience for a child is/can be play. And no need to buy anything at all.

Is it because we have forgotten how to play ourselves?