I've heard about heuristic (sp?) play, does anyone know about it please?

[saythatagain]

For the life of me I can't even remember where I heard it being discussed, or maybe I was just ear-wigging! It sounded very interesting so first port of call for advice is, of course, mumsnet. TIA

It's an old concept, mummymagic, which is gaining popularity. Yes, it is just play. However modern baby toy manufacturers have done a good job of convincing us that the only things babies should be allowed to put in their mouths are made of smooth multi-coloured plastic, and that unless your baby is pushing buttons and making lights flash and beep beep noises, then they will be left behind intellectually.

Good old fashioned play has gone out of style lately. This is just information and ideas, to give confidence to parents in letting them explore and investigate with things that they would have naturally around the house, anyway. Some babies are being brought up on the play equivalent of white sliced bread, because their parents don't have the confidence / knowledge to fortify their play diet with something a bit more varied and exciting.

(If you want to trace heuristic play back to its source, read "People Under 3" by Elinor Goldschmied. A great source of information)

Great thread F&Z. Am feeling very inspired

And so relieved I allowed ds & dd's exercise in emptying all the pine cones out of my firegrate this morning

Yes you are all such gifted and enabling mummies

pasta and pine cones are both superb aren't they?

seriously though lots of parents have no idea it is ok to let their babies put everyday objects in their mouths. It makes them frightened. They look in the shops and see "super deluxe baby toy £34.99" and they think that is what their baby needs for optimum development

Could I have a copy of the heuristic play document please Franny?

I'm kind of that people don't do this sort of thing with their children as a matter of course and am also amazed people are making a living out it by selling 'treaure baskets'. I wish I'd thought of it first!!

Have e-mailed you franny.

My DS is a bit young yet but will give me time to collect some bits and pieces.

Very interesting. You have me all inspired to read up on play theories (had great ideas on doing an MA at one point).

I totally agree with too many 'given' toys and too much 'structured' play. Although my dd loves her plastic toys - her doll and CD player and shape sorters etc, she also adores her egg box, and a lot of pegs, and potatoes and onions from the vegetable trolley

Am v lucky in that my mum (ex nursery teacher) is great with creative ideas too. My dd spent the other day at Nanna's in the paddling pool with a funnel, a plastic milk bottle, a paint roller and a ping pong ball - fascinating to watch her with them.

It is so sad that many parents don't allow their children freedom to experiment.

I know. My dh said that his friend looked at him like he was mad when he gave the babies leaflets to play with while they went round the supermarket the other day. But it kept them quiet

Babies like things!

LOL harpsichordcarrier's dd2 loved her treasure basket and they would regularly take bits of it around with them. People would get very flappy and upset and come up to them in shops and things - "Oh dear! Your baby seems to have got hold of a pine cone!"

Anyone who wants the information, please email me on

frannyandzooey at india dot com

People often seem a bit surprised or even outraged that there are classes and merchandise based around this acitivity and people making a living from it. Of course it is easy, and free, to do this at home if you have the information, or the intuition to do it, and that is one reason I like to speak to parents about heuristic play and give them my document. But singing and music (for instance) are both easy and free to do with your baby, as well, and yet classes on this are very popular too. Not every parent has the knowledge or the resources to confidently do this at home. There is also the social aspect to a class for both parent and baby.

The ready made treasure baskets are usually full of unusual and good quality items, many of which I don't believe most people would have lying around at home. I would recommend them for parents who are interested in this type of play but don't have the time to trawl round many different shops looking for objects.

I have 800+ different objects in the baskets at my class and I have many intriguing and exotic things that your baby wouldn't normally come across. I think my classes are good value for money, and when I occasionally supply objects for baskets, I know I am providing a useful service. I think the implication that some people give, that this is money for old rope, is quite insulting both to the people who offer this product and to the people who buy it.

am going to email you so I can get DS sorted with a treasure basket at home

I have often thought that classes building people's confidence in playing with their babies and toddlers, and how to encourage their play, would be beneficial and well-received. I think a lot of it is viewing the world through new eyes - that's what makes having a kid so much fun!

I think there is also a huge amount of pressure on parents to provide "stimulation" and "educational" play for their babies. I think this leads to the electronic toy buying frenzy, and / or the guilt that they are not doing "more" with their baby. Being told that leaving your baby to play (supervising them, but not interfering except for reasons of safety) with the treasure basket is actually one of the most "educational" and "stimulating" things that you can do for your baby, is quite liberating and empowering, I think.

you can tell I am kind of evangelical about this

Will email you

(have just found a ton of wine corks in the drawer - and she is currently standing them on end on the floor then putting them in her egg box)

Great thread.

Please do mm - I will get around to answering everyone at the weekend if not before

if anyone reading this has the kind of objects, and no young children, I can find a good home for them and keep them out of landfill

I am particularly looking for champagne corks atm (strange dearth of them around these parts )

MM, I know it is fine with your supervision but the ordinary size wine corks do fit nicely in a child's throat . Don't leave young ones alone with them

Sorry -Isn't this just 'normal' play?

muppetgirl I suggest you read the thread. That might help answer your question

sorry f&z £55 for the contents of a kitchen drawer is indeed money for old rope.

Lovely thread, and good on you F&Z.

We've done this with our 2, to such an extent that I'm thinking of making up a wnaky basket of standard toys so they can experience plastic beepy stuff...

I don't think you would have most of the items that I have in my baskets, in your kitchen drawer. It would be a pretty weird drawer if you did, put it that way.

I think criticising people selling items to do with this kind of play, is like saying "Dressing up clothes? why would anyone buy those? You can just give them one of your old dresses." It's true of course, and you can, but many people like to buy something a bit different for their children, something that they can't provide at home with what they already have.

If you feel your children have got enough dressing up clothes from your old castoffs, or enough mucking about junk from your kitchen drawers, then great, but why knock people who are providing top quality things for those who want to buy them? Do you go into Next and say "I could make that myself. That's a rip off." ?

You see, what I think is money for old rope, are the crappy plastic noisy toys sold in toyshops.

LOL at welliemum

yes you could have a shop in a Steiner commune or something

"strange exotic plastic beepy toys from far away lands"

I am working through all your emails btw

there are loads of them

tbh i am fairly prone to the "i could make that myself"s (though not w/clothes cos ime they cost much more to diy).

but surely the whole point of this type of play is that any variety of (safe) household objects can be used. the pleasure in it surely is discovering that objects you already have are just as interesting to babies as expensive stuff you have to buy specifically for them.