I am devastated and need help <BAD PARENT ALERT>

[dejags]

My DS1 (5.9) is a complex little chap and this morning I have realised that I am totally and utterly failing him. My heart is breaking and I just don?t know what to do. A bit of background:

DS has always been a very ?hard work? child. He talks incessantly and can be very difficult to guide. For example ? we tried to homeschool him last year when we were travelling around the world and it was a total disaster. He just wouldn?t listen, refused to acknowledge that he understood simple concepts (when we knew for a fact that he did). The homeschooling caused so much discord that we decided to give up and not do any schooling with him at all (he was only just five, so we weren?t too worried). Along with being ?hard work? he is incredibly affectionate, cerebral and grown up. He is very tall for his age (1.3m) and intellectually he more mature than his peers. He loves nothing more than to natter with grown-ups.

In the last six months DH and I have realised that our parenting techniques with our eldest child suck. We have tried various different things but nothing changes. On the face of it, DS1 is a happy, confident little boy. When you scratch the surface, he is a desperately insecure little boy. We decided to have him assessed by an Educational Psych, she didn?t tell us anything we didn?t really know about him, but her assessment of us as parents has shattered us (me in particular).

Essentially, DS is ultra dependant on me. This stems back to my PND and mine and DH?s unrealistic expectations of our little boy. We have been too hard on him, we expect too much of him and in doing so have had a really bad effect on his self-esteem and ability to do things for himself. DS feels that he is not good enough in particular for DH. We haven?t meant to be too hard on him ? we have only ever wanted the best for him. We lost sight of the fact that he?s a small boy who only sees our disapproval (we don?t disapprove of anything he does but he doesn?t understand that).

After this DH and I agreed that it was us who needed help and started counselling to help us with our parenting techniques. All good I hear you say.

Well DS1 started in Y1 at the beginning of the year. He has been doing fine on the academic side of things but the teacher says she is really struggling with his behavior. He is disruptive in class, talks too much and cannot concentrate on what he needs to do. As a result he is the only child in the class who has not made it onto the star-chart.

In line with the Psychs? advice, we have been telling him, that we don?t care about the star chart and that he should just try his best and reinforcing the fact that we love him and we are proud of him. His teacher is totally on board with this (she?s wonderful), but she cannot progress him onto the star chart because his behavior just doesn?t warrant it.

Yesterday he comes home and tells us how delighted he is to be on the star chart. This morning he didn?t want me or DH to come into school with him. With some gentle persuasion, he admits that he has lied and that he isn?t on the starchart after all. My little boy just sits and cries his heart out that he doesn?t want me to be cross with him. How have we got it so very, very wrong?

My DS thinks we think he is a failure at age 5. We don?t think this but I can see how our actions in the past may have led this little mite to having such a crap self-image. I am totally devastated and don?t know how to fix this.

On the one hand if I say nothing at all, it?s like I don?t care. On the other hand, if I say something, he perceives it to be pressure. This sensitive little soul is the light of my life, everybody knows this except him.

Sorry if you've fallen asleep but I needed to get this off my chest.

I thought what I said was fairly consistent with that their expert psychologist had said.
Basically stop fussing over the boy and expect too much of him. Try to make him realise he's not the focus of the parents' attentino, their be all and end all. I think a bit o benign neglect helps a lot. Rubbing along with siblings, realising you're not the centre of a universe and parents and their lives and work can come first etc. Very good for children so you lose that pressure on you, so you can become non descript really and that your parents will accept your mediocrity almost, rather than knowing they're sitting there waiting for you to fail or whatever.

The immediate issue is stopping him talking so much in class. That can be hard. Try putting him on fish oil for 3 months by the way.

Actually I agree with you Xenia, your first post didn't really convey that though.

We have put him on Fish Oils and we have backed off. That's what the thread is all about.

I should point out that I don't just sit around all day thinking about DS1. We have another DS (who gets the same level of attention and a DD on the way), as I mentioned, I work full time in a fairly demanding job. So it's not all about him.

It was more about us - the manual never told us how to do it and we cocked it up. However, mistakes are there to be rectified, so that's what we are doing .

Parenting is the bloody hardest thing any of us EVER has to do.

Just keep at it dejags, things will get better with determination

I love some of the posts on here, especially the ones from aloha and christie and Smileyspeople. I'm so glad things are looking up for your boy, dejags.

Xenia- that was v out of order, imo.

I think I cock things up with my son by the way (he is 2.8 yo), but that is because I don't know me arse from Xmas sometimes and still nearly 3 years on learning a lot about children.

I do absolutely adore him though and think he is the light of my life. It is important that children KNOW you love them. They don't have to be told they are the centre of the universe, but they do need to know they are loved. My personal view

Your first post that was. Jeez. I am turning into a mumsnet policeman atm. I need to get a life!

To Dejags: I haven't read the whole thread, but I have read your OP. You sound like a very loving and caring mother, and I think you should go a bit easier on yourself. It's so easy to make mistakes as a parent, but children are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for. And, if you didn't make any effort to push or stimulate your son, that would be wrong as well!

I don't have any practical advice to offer really, but think you should keep loving him and keep talking to him and try to chill out (easier said than done, I know). You do sound like a very lovely Mum, and I feel sure that things will get better for your DS. Best wishes

I agree, most of all they need to know they're loved, however they are. We just "borrow them" and a lot of how they are they are born, not made and we are lucky to have them with us and can't entirely mould what they become.

If he's just started school he's just getting used to things, learning about behaviour and being part of a group. Apart from giving him lots of fish/the oil, and lots of physical exercise so he's not so restless in class perhaps it's just something he'll grow out of. is it that he talks too much or also that he moves around all the time. Just in case it's hyperactivity, diet or something behind it.

Inspirational thread, good luck dejags.

My children are the centre of my universe, they know I worship the ground they tread me in to

psml at the concept of WPC Scummymummy

Dejags - agree with your comment on sometimes having to be the advocate for your child. Well done . Had to 'stick up' for my mildly dyslexic DD1 in the past - never got head teacher's awards for 20/20 spellings but worked bloody hard to achieve 12/20 each week. DD2 gets them all right after a cursory glance. It's hard to see the injustices of life thundering into the lives of such young children - and seeing them played out at your kitchen table.

I do, however, take the attitude that school is only a part of life. It is not the be all and end all - fostering hobbies as Xenia said (oh so nicely ) has been a brilliant way of shifting the focus from the comformity of school to the development of the individual.

EL, I agree. One of my twins does that - glance at the spellings each week and usually gets nearly full marks. His twin will get half marks but better if we work on it. It's not fair. What does help is that one is great at all sports and his twin is in no teams and they seem to have found an equilibrium on that basis, although constantly more competitive with each other than I prefer but that's just how children are. If he was hopeless at everything (as some children are) it gets even harder but even those children can be caring and helpful and loving. Sadly some are hopeless at everything and also very nasty pieces of work. I haven't got one of those. Hopefully there is one redeeming feature people can work on.

It sounds like the boy on this thread will do fine. My now 22 year old talked and talks all the time. She got her first job which starts in 2 years last week and I'm sure it's because of her ability to talk well.

just a little thought, have not read all, just some, is the senco involved? and if so hopefully she/he has a more senisble and sympathetic head on their shoulders. unhappy about the star chart for you. I remember my own complaining when the naughtier kids got more stars.. but that is one way of dealing with it. .. everychild must have a reward for at least some little thing.

Iread you op and was really touched with the fact that you care so much about how your actions can affect ds. My ds was feeling really demoralised at school for a time when he was in year R and year 1. One of the ways of combatting it and showing our praise for him was by doing a sticker chart (not for punsihing but praising). Ds actually asked us for one so that is why we did it. nearly 2 years on and we still do it. He feels really proud of his little certificates each month and his confidence went up alot.

We dont give stickers for academic stuff alone (although now he gets stickers for reading or spellings or number work) we give stickers if he helps lay the table or helps me wash the veggies.

I have tried to get rid of the chart but ds still gets alot out of it and that is what matters I guess.

It may not be for you and I know lots of people think stickers charts are crap but it works here hth

Also (probably most important) at bedtime i do story, ask him if he has anything he wants to talk about (chance to discuss any worries) and song time. Then I also say 'you are the most special, wonderful, kindest, loveliest, sweetest most fantastic little boy in the world to me and I love you lots and lots and lots. xx

aww makes me miss him typing that and he is only at school!

That's actally a lovely post, Xenia. I have an effortlessly good spelling twin too and sometimes feel it's v unfair as his brother tends to try harder but sometimes not gain as high marks. There's not too much in it but they are, like yours, pretty competitive. It is one of the harder aspects of having twins, I think.

e'llo, e'llo, e'llo, Cam.

Yes, it's good they're in separate classes and also there isn't a massive gulf between them. I think probably they'll get into the same school at 13 but we'll see.

There's a very disruptive child in one of their classes. I have him on video from one of our parties and his behaviour is bizarre and impossible. I don't think he should still be at the school but I hope he's being helped in whatever way he need. Children take it in turns to sit next to him so no one has to endure him all term. He gets stickers or did in the infants, for things which my twins resent because they say they don't get stickers JUST for that but you can see the teacher is trying to help him by rewarding what is nothing for other children but a lot for some. He was suspended for one day last term. I don't think he's getting any better but hopefully he will.

I agree with Xenia and what she says goes back to that book I mentioned about "Letting Go as Children Grow". Part of letting go is to be a conscientious parent, as you definitely are dejags, but also to be a little less involved. The reason you have to start being less involved is because you seem to definitely have a fear, even now, that your child needs your complete guidance to grow up in an acceptable way. Thats why I made the comment about him working in Macdonalds.
You have to reach a point where you dont mind at all how he turns out, as long as he is 1) himself and 2) relatively happy. Anything else is just icing on the cake. I mean, your child needs to understand that you <strong>do</strong> <strong>not</strong> <strong>mind</strong> if he fails at school, as long as hes tried his best. Its not the same as not caring about the results- of course hell know youd be overjoyed if he got good marks, but its not the be all and end all.
One of my brothers is dyslexic and basically failed all his GSCEs and went on to work as a carpenter. Anyhow, hes only gone and taught <span class="italic">himself</span> golf- has not really paid for many lessons. Hes 20, and has got a handicap of 11 (apparently thats really good), and is on his way to being professional. THats just from having a pure passion for something and having the freedom to realise his potential by himself.
Im really passionate about this.(I hope I dont sound too judgemental, God knows what my parenting faults are- I`m scared to delve deep enough to find out...)

It's one of the most important bits of being a parent and hard to grapple with because probably most of us would prefer to say XYZ has her first from Oxbridge than ABC scraped into a job selling shoes in Clarks which he was lucky to get as he didn't get a single GCSE.

My oldest is doing very well and it's particularly good for her as she's slightly dyslexic. To get such good A levels for her was a huge achievement but not for others. But of course no one really knows that. If her brother ever manages to operate as a functioning adult I'll be pleased. Different child.

Yet you also can't sit back and do nothing for them. The school they go to, ethos of the home, effort you put in does help mould them. Difficult balance to get right.

My fatehr sent me years ago a book called a Good Enough Parent by a fellow psychiatrist Bruno Bettelheim, I think. His wise advice is that none of us have to be or should want to be perfect parents, just good enough. It's that acceptance of having done as good as we can but not been too hung up if things don't go to plan which is hard to achieve.

I really feel for you...its tough being a perent and my ds who is nearly 3 is a clever little chap who is hard work and a challenge. At times i feel awful if i been too hard on him, but then i think if i let him do whatever he wants how will he turn out, then i feel im always saying dont do this, that or the other. At difficult times i draw up a good boy chart for him which really helps, but i do it for simple things like brushing teeth, helping, tidying up toys etc. Then he gets a little surprise at the end of the week. If im cross with ds about something like not listening, not eaten his dinner, throwing things etc he will go in a mood and hide and after say to me - mummy are you happy? i feel awful then cuz i think is he unhappy when im unhappy, it makes me realise how much of what i do and say reflects on him and his behaviour/attitude. After reading this thread it makes me realise that i should not expect too much of him after all he is only a liitle boy who is approaching 3. Also where someone else mentioned about letting go abit and not make him the centre of you universe makes sense to give them space to express themselves and not bee too controlling....this is a leason i had learnt recently when i sit back and just watch my ds.....its not too late for you, he is still so young at 5 and things will change you just have to start with changing one thing and take each day at a time......good luck i hope things get better.

Hi, I'm new to mumsnet and came on because I have a similar problem to you. My son is 4 and in nursery I feel if I hadn't read all of this i would be in the same position in 2 yrs time. You sound like the best kind of parents. I look back at all those things I said to my son with the best intentions. I now cringe. I think I praised in the wrong way and too much. He stopped believing me! my son is a sensitive little soul and I forget too easily how he takes things to heart. Your son is blest with you as his mother.

Dejags, I really feel for you. I think perhaps one of the problems (and it takes one to know one) is that you are over analysing and desperately trying to do the right thing, as though there was a perfectly right way to bring up your son if only you could find one. (I surf, and my very good surfing instructor tells me off for always wanting instructions rather than trusting myself - surfing, bringing up children - same difference - I have a shelves of childcare books.) I think it sounds as though you are very sensitive and intelligent, and that the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree. Unfortunately/fortunately we all have to be brought up by human beings, not perfect androids. Its not the worst thing in the world to have a son who desperately wants to please you, and although its easier for me to write this than follow my own advice, being a round peg at school is not the be all and end all of life.

Sorry I haven't read any replies only your original post. Whatever has happened in the past is history, you can't change that. But you can change from now on as you are obviously doing. The star chart thing breaks my heart. However great you think the teacher is, she isn't. How soul destroying for you and your little boy. My advice would be to take him to a Steiner school if you possibly can. As I'm sure you're aware it's a completely different attitude, and I'm sure they don't use star charts! Have you read a book by Alfie Kohn, rewards and punishments? Or the homework myth?

Hello Dejags

You are obviously very good at articulating your thoughts and feelings - that's a great start.
I have an entirely practical suggestion. If you are trying to build your son's self-esteem then how about providing him with scenarios other than home and school where he has the opportunity to succeed and receive quick wins and lots of praise e.g.learning a new skill that builds on one that he already has. For my son, swimming coaching provides that scenario and music lessons also. For your son it may be something different and if he is seriously underconfident you may need to pick something that is quick to pick up but which ultimately is harder to perfect. e.g. Chess

Hope this helps.

Yes, this book by Deborah Jackson is inspired by the "Good Enough Parents" book, and she mentions it in the introduction.
To just be "good enough" is often better than to be "too" good or "perfect" as a parent.

Excellent advice Balls, I always think that children need an outlet other than school, hopefully where they can mix with different children from those they see every day in the classroom. For my child it has been Brownies, and now Guides, and ballet classes.

As he is only 5 there will be limited options, I think Cubs starts at 7 (although Beavers may start earlier?) but swimming or similar would be good.