Son does not bring his girlfriend to visit because I don't let them sleep together

[apn1179]

I have old fashioned values and I have always said that my children's boy/girlfriends were welcome to stay over but they would have to sleep in the guest bedroom.

My son has been going out with his girlfriend for about 9 months. He was 'seeing her' for about three months before that she was 18 in July he is 21. I met her once for about 5 minutes months ago.

When he lived here he refused to pay me anything towards his keep because he worked away all week and did not eat here very much. He stays at her mothers house every weekend only comes home to do his washing and take a shower (what's that about?). She lives about three miles away btw

He is always very pleasant but most of the time is too busy to help me with jobs around the house which I cannot do.

I had the feeling that he was not bringing her here because I would not let her sleep here but did not know for certain till this morning. I asked him if he was ashamed of our house he said 'no why do you say that?' so I said well you never bring your girlfriend around so he said 'well you won't let her stay over with me'.

Is it me? There is no way that I will change my mind it goes against the grain. My daughter brought her boyfriend home and he stayed in the guest room.

My house my rules I have a younger daughter to consider also.

I suspect it's not about the sleeping arrangements at all.

I bet he resents being asked to do chores every time he goes round there.

Well I had a visitor today.. Yes my son brought his girlfriend around, so small steps have been taken and we will take things slowly and see where it leads to.

You can be made welcome without sharing a bed!

My now husband was allowed to share a room at my parents once we were engaged. I'm not sure we ever had nookey there anyway.

I'm not sure when we shared a bed at his parents - possibly when we'd been together a while but weren't yet engaged.

It really didn't bother me. I think the OPs son is being a bit silly. Well a lot silly actually. I'm glad he's brought his GF round.

So, you gonna be dating the girlfriend now? Or will she be expected to perform song and dance to see if you will approve of her?

I had a boyfriend who's mum expected me to sleep in their dusty, clutter 'guest room'. I declined and then never stayed there again. We stayed at my place instead after that.

I don't blame them.

I was 19 and my dh was 21 when we first were together. Allowed to stay in each other's parents houses together from quite early on, when back from uni etc. My parents and inlaws now have a close relationship with us now 13 years on and always have from the start due to treating us respectfully and so we in turn treated them respectfully. They hadn't been allowed partners over when they were young as it wasn't hugely the done thing. However they realised times were different and wanted us to decide to stay together, live together and marry through choice and not being forced. Also very rarely ever had sex with the parents in the house! Far too uncomfortable, just wanted to be together.

Like others I think you need to clarify what your rules are. If they are together 5 years does that make it ok? If they live together? (Which it sounds like they basically do - at her parents).
I also agree re: rent, he has moved out but not taken his stuff. Unless he is staying at yours regularly i.e. More nights than not, he doesn't live with you.
Stop paying his phone bill. Though I'm kind of with him on this score because my parents paid my brother's phone bill for years (and like you, brought it up often ... they didn't think they did but they brought it into conversation so much with the implication "our son still relies on us, we still look after him ... we even pay his phone bill!) - does he ask you to pay it or did you just start paying it when he was younger and the arrangement never ended? If the later he's probably just not given it much thought and would happily pay it himself. Keeping it as a tool to remind him he's still a child in your eyes just isn't fair.

You can have the rules you want but if I was the girlfriend or the son, no I wouldn't spend much time with you and inevitably you will see even less and less of your son. I'd want to spend time with parents who respected that I was now a grown up, visiting them with my committed partner. If you still treat him as a child (and you do since this is in "parenting") no wonder he doesn't want to come round with his girlfriend.

My IL'a didn't allow us to sleep in the same room for religious reasons. We lived together for 10 years before marrying and only towards the end of those 10 years were we allowed in the same room.

I can understand a no one night stand rule. But if your son lives this girl, it's not casual sex is it? Does your son love this girl?

I think the OP is getting a slightly hard time here and probably does need some help working through her views and feelings on all this - but it doesn't help if everyone just jumps down her throat as if she is the sex police.

• it can be confusing if the world takes a view that "sex in relationships is fine; casual sex - not in my house please." I bet a lot of posters on here subscribe to something like this view, but how is the parent supposed to know what a "relatinoship" is? Once it meant when you were engaged or married. Now it's not so clear. If the parents don't have hearts to hearts with their teenaged / adult children about their feelings and intentions etc.... how would you know? I think it is normal not to have these heart to hearts by the way. (with your parents)

• I think the OP is upset about poor communication between herself and her son. She has now reached a point where she's realised the girlfriend is a "relationship" and would like to know her better (invitations to lunch, birthday presents are all reasonable and pleasant openings to this). It's not working. We don't know why.

• alongside this she feels her son doesn't handle his money properly or give her enough help at home. We don't know why this is.

• The OP suggests that it is all related to her not letting the gf sleep over in his room. I don't think it is. I think there are other reasons why she and her son have grown apart, but I am only guessing.

• I think (TOTALLY GUESSING) that maybe her son is a bit selfish and the OP is a bit controlling. These traits added together have resulted in an impasse where their relationship is not in good shape.

• She wants to change this. She needs some help to see how she can change this - shouting at her about sex isn't the answer. Maybe she could be more flexible about that, but if her son is saying "I won't be a proper part of your life unless I can treat your house like a hotel" that's not ok either.

Just for the sake of where my perspective comes from, I am 55 and have sons aged 20 and 24.

Op, I think there is a novels worth of unspoken things in your op.

I think you have somehow managed to get into a power struggle with your son. You are using the bit of power you think you still have by banning their sleeping together.
He is responding by withdrawing incrementally from your life.
You clearly have huge issues around his contribution to your home and he obviously resents the way you seem to dismiss his girlfriend.

My eldest son has been seeing his girlfriend for 3 years. She is welcome here because it is his home. He respects us by his behaviour and manner. They share a room but spend all but night time with us and they are discreet around his younger sister and brother.

Being in a respectful and committed relationship so young is a good thing, not a shameful one.
If she wrote you a thank you note and is friendly I would make more of an effort.

It sounds as if you have zero communication with your son. If he were my child I would be talking with him and explain what I find difficult and why. You know they are sleeping together. They are adults and whilst you may have a moral issue with them having sex under your roof I'm unsure of the logic of that .
If you think they would have shrieky noisy sex and you would be embarrassed then tell him. You may find that discussing it solves some of the antagonism between you.

If you think they would have shrieky noisy sex and you would be embarrassed then tell him.
Why would anyone think that?
It would have been hysterical if my parents had said to me, 'yes your bf can stay, but please don't have shrieky noisy sex!'

It's not an age thing. My mum is older than the OP and there was never an issue with people I was in a relationship with staying. I didn't live there after the age of 16 but when I stayed over so did my partner.

The son doesn't want to pay rent so stays elsewhere.

OP can have all the rules she likes. Her son disagrees with them so keeps away. OP is now complaining for son abiding by her rules???

So all of a sudden I am expected to welcome his girlfriend who he has purposely kept at a distance (because I don't believe in casual sex) into my home because he has been going out with her for 9 months.

You are contradicting yourself.

It's NOT casual sex.
They have been in a relationship for 9 months.
If it were one night stands he was bringing back I could kind of understand.

If this relationship is going to continue, which it sounds likely, then you are setting up bad relations for the future. You need to think long term on this one.

You sound as if 'old fashioned values' is something to be proud of.
It's really not. In this case.

Yeah, ok.

My point was for the op to figure out if she is totally morally opposed to the two of them sharing a room or if she is just squeamish and uncomfortable at the idea that their sex life may start being incredibly apparent if she stays over.

Pagwatch has made some very sensible comments (as usual ).

One of the points that is rarely being mentioned on this thread is that the OP has only met the GF once 'for 5 minutes'. I find it hard to understand how the DS has gone from just introducing his GF to his DM for 5 minutes to it being a committed relationship where he expects to have the right to invite the GF to share his bed at home.

Surely people 'date' or bring GFs home for a meal or something before expecting to spend every night together - or am I living in the dark ages?

I have a teenage DS and I would not be happy to meet someone once for 5 minutes and then be expected to assume it's OK for them to share my DS's bed. I call a 'committed' relationship a relationsip where a GF/BF is properly introduced to the family, shares meals, evenings etc together - not just a sneaking off to the bedroom; and as Pagwatch says, spending some of the evenings together as a family.

He's an adult. So is she.

What if he decides never to get married to her? Are you going to change the rules when they've been together 20 years, when they have kids together?

My parents were in their late 50s when I had a boyfriend stay over (I was 18), I'd had friends-that-were-boys stay before that. They got me a double bed once I left home for uni. I kept going home in part because my boyfriend was made welcome. (I had younger siblings too, don't see the issue.)

An ex's mum was so lovely she actually gave up her double bed for us when we stayed (she was on her own that week so slept in a single bed). My DH's very conservative, religious family put is in separate beds the first visit (same room), but the next time we were given a double.

They are both adults, they feel unwelcome in your home so they prefer to spend time with her family, where they do feel welcome.

That's ok though, you have your high moral standards to cling to...

And my 80+ year old grandfather sent me money to buy condoms at uni. At least I think he did. That was one weird letter.

I just don't get what you achieve by doing this, except alienating your son. You are not preventing him from having sex with his gf. He probably wouldn't have sex with her in your house anyway. They are simply used to sharing a bed and (quite rightly) don't see why they should be prevented from doing so at your house. So what is to be gained by showing your disapproval? Stick to your guns if you like, but then don't complain if he doesn't want to stay with you. As an aside, can't believe you're paying for his mobile!

Pollaidh hehehe, please tell me you remember what the letter said?!

I think the '5 minutes' isn't literal. I think op meant she doesn't know her as well as she'd like. But to be honest it doesn't sound as if the ops made much effort to make her feel welcome. Yes she's been invited to see her but what kind of reception is the lass getting?

Surely people 'date' or bring GFs home for a meal or something before expecting to spend every night together confused - or am I living in the dark ages?

They may well have done - the OP mentions they were seeing each other for three months before 'going out'. Not spending much time with OP, clearly, but from this thread it doesn't seem a huge stretch to imagine she may not have felt entirely welcome.

Also, how did it come up? Did he ask for her to stay and you said no, or did you raise it as soon as they were seeing each other? Were you perhaps a little overzealous in telling him and might have created the impression she's not very welcome?

Can I be (probably) the hundredth person to boggle all over again because I'd forgotten this thread was in 'Behaviour and Development', along with toddler tantrums and toilet training?

Older It was very subtextual, but seemed to be basically warning me against ruining my life with an unplanned pregnancy 'mistakes made in the flush of youth may be irrevocable' type stuff. The cash was included with some phrase about it always being wise to take precautions. Didn't dare to write back and tell him condoms were free and I'd spent it on whisky.

He was a lovely guy. Quite straight-laced, unbelievably intelligent, and apparently, very pragmatic.