Son does not bring his girlfriend to visit because I don't let them sleep together

[apn1179]

I have old fashioned values and I have always said that my children's boy/girlfriends were welcome to stay over but they would have to sleep in the guest bedroom.

My son has been going out with his girlfriend for about 9 months. He was 'seeing her' for about three months before that she was 18 in July he is 21. I met her once for about 5 minutes months ago.

When he lived here he refused to pay me anything towards his keep because he worked away all week and did not eat here very much. He stays at her mothers house every weekend only comes home to do his washing and take a shower (what's that about?). She lives about three miles away btw

He is always very pleasant but most of the time is too busy to help me with jobs around the house which I cannot do.

I had the feeling that he was not bringing her here because I would not let her sleep here but did not know for certain till this morning. I asked him if he was ashamed of our house he said 'no why do you say that?' so I said well you never bring your girlfriend around so he said 'well you won't let her stay over with me'.

Is it me? There is no way that I will change my mind it goes against the grain. My daughter brought her boyfriend home and he stayed in the guest room.

My house my rules I have a younger daughter to consider also.

The problem is you treat a 21 year old adult like a child. There is nothing wrong with saying you don't want her to stay, but it's clear from the way you write that you do not respect your son, his decisions, and by extension her and her decisions. You talk as if they're children.

Like SirChenjin, I'd be disappointed if someone refused to go to dinner because of not being able to stay. But equally I would not be disappointed by my child protecting their partner from being around someone who doesn't respect them.

From what you've written here I'm not surprised he's turning down playing happy families over the Sunday roast. You don't sound like you have any respect for him at all.

But how is the son & the girlfriend showing their respect to his mother by refusing to join in Sunday lunch or other 'normal' social invitations just because they can't share a bed? .

And when I think back to my late teens/early 20s I had a series of relationships - each lasted a few months, I would not have expected to bring those boyfriends home to share my bed; I respected my parents' rules - of course they knew I had sex ..... but I didn't need to flaunt my sex life in front of them.

And if people really think that these two are in a 'committed' relationship, then surely the least they could do would be to occasionally spend a little time with the OP and the rest of her family even if they choose to sleep at the girl friend's parents' house. I think they sound rather immature - and why is the OP still paying his mobile phone bill?

He respects her rules on the no sleep overs. He doesn't come round. The fact he doesn't want to socialise with his mother and maybe shows what happens when uou push someone away,. But it is surely another thread and more to it.

I would point out this is much more than not letting them share. Thenop has said some terrible things, for example he won't come round unless he can have sex with his girlfriend and so on. It's very sex related and quite grubby.

I think there is probably more to this than you are recognising. Have you asked your DS why he and his gf don't visit for meals? Have you asked them out for coffee or dinner somewhere neutral? What's happening at Xmas? I think you need to have a serious chat to him about their reasoning for staying away, and be prepared to let go of your judgements about the casualness or otherwise, of their relationship.

I don't understand the point of this thread. OP has rules, her DS respects those rules. What are you complaining about OP?

Someone said you can be happy OR you can be right - you can't always be both!

Gransnet, hmm, given my parents (late 60's) and my grandparents (if alive would be early 90's now) never had any problems with me or my siblings or cousins staying at theirs with our partners in the same bedroom, in the same bed I'd be very surprised if you didn't get a similar response there! Plus they're all Catholic!

I'm not much younger than you, if my first pregnancy had been successful they'd now be 25, I have a 15 year old daughter.

My parents let my boyfriend stay over from 17 on, same rules applied to my sibs as they got older, no one night stands or flings but steady relationship partners were welcome once they were age of consent.

Over time for me that applied to 3 boyfriends (one went on to be husband) and one girlfriend (now that would probably send op into a fit!), siblings Have each had 2 serious partners, only one wedding in there.

The siblings had their children out of wedlock too .

My ex's parents (who are now late 70's) APOLOGISED for the fact he only had a single bed at theirs when we stayed there! (Tiny room a double wouldn't have fit).

I've met 2 people like the op, both have very limited interest from their children as they've got older and rarely get to see their grandchildren.

As far as the financial/living arrangements:

No he shouldn't be having his mother paying his mobile phone bill.

Op shouldn't be expecting rent or odd jobs from an adult who is to all intents and purposes no longer living there (can't imagine why ).

As he has a job that requires him living away part time, I suspect given the current economy and that he hasn't been on a full time wage for long and he and the girlfriend still quite young, that they're staying at her parents at weekends to save for their own place probably which is totally normal and common now.

If you choose to stick to your principles etc then that's fine. It's your choice. But if your we chooses to spend his time at his girlfriend's home because they are treated differently there, then that is his choice.
It's really very simple.
If he's a working adult then he should be paying his own mobile bill. Of course if you put pressure on him to do jobs for you because he loves with you he may choose to move out.
You make your choices, he makes his.

I think that SirChenJin and Ragwort are right in that, if - as you all state - the ds and his gf, at 18, are 'adults', then they shouldn't be behaving so badly in refusing to ever accept any invitations from the OP, to get to know the gf.
I have a 20 yr old, whose gf sleeps over here when he is at home. When mine were younger, I felt that I wouldn't let them, that it was 'my house, my rules', etc., but, you know, my ds and his gf used to spend (at first) little bits of time here, then she'd come out with us if it were a family 'do' or even if we were popping to the pub for a quick bite, etc., and we got to know her, and then, suddenly, it felt like she was part of the family, and I actually have no issue whatsoever with her staying here.
The same will apply to my 18 and 15 yr olds. I would not want someone I didn't know sleeping in my house. I would expect anyone who was adult enough to be in a "committed" relationship (whatever that may be), to have got to know the family quite well if the young person still lived at home before they started moving in.
I really don't think I'm that unusual in that.

I'm with you Back. I can understand that they want to sleep together and choose to spend nights at her mum's house instead - absolutely. However, to then refuse to have dinner at the OP'S house because she doesn't want them sleeping together in her house seems like the GF is Making A Point - sort of 'alter your rules, let us sleep together and then you'll see me - until then, nope'.

I rather suspect given the ops tone and some of the comments she's made that the girlfriend is considered 'not good enough' and has picked this up in how the op treats her on the few occasions they have met, also that the son isn't pushing for them to spend more time with op and has in effect moved out.

I think there's more to this.

Fair point.

Not RTFT (sorry), but this sounds like my parents.

If I mentioned my BF there was this air of disapproval, his parents are muslim and he felt that they would disapprove of me. So we never did the meet the parents thing, and we (almost) never went to each others homes. This meant that we had to be outside/ in public basically all the time so we did some stupid stuff , surely that's more shameful than letting people be together in their homes.

We are 21 & 23, we broke up a few months ago after 8 months. Living far apart (just popping round for lunch requires a fair bit of travel and expense) and being kept apart in this way put a strain on things and couldn't be fixed soon enough.

The other day, my parents threw it in my face that they never met him and that obviously he was just taking advantage - because to them its not possible that it's what I wanted too. One of the great ways they push me away.

To reiterate the point Back makes, the son has made no effort to introduce his GF to his mother, it states in the opening post that she has met her for '5 minutes' - how do you go from introducing your mother to your girlfriend for '5 minutes' and then suddenly be in a committed relationship where it is perfectly reasonable (in Mumsnetters' views) to share a bed together ?

Or am I being hopelessly old fashioned?

It's near impossible to simultaneously be warm and welcoming and be dismissive of the 'casual' relationship. 'I don't know her therefore it's casual' is an oddly self centred attitude to someone else relationship.

I imagine if a woman had posted saying she didn't particularly want to have sunday dinner with her DPs mother because the mother didn't regard them as a real couple, disapproved of their casual sex etc and she just couldn't be arsed people wouldn't be falling over themselves to say she must respect the mother.

It's not unusual for people to have people they don't know very well sleep over. Besides, the OP isn't saying she can't sleep over, just that she is too casual and transient to get upgraded to sharing a room. A friend of mine from Australia recently took her bf home to meet her parents and they shared a room despite him being a stranger to her parents. DPs old uni friend visited a few weeks ago with his new partner and it didn't cross my mind to ask her to sleep in a separate room (not that we have 2 spare rooms, but we do have a sofa). I suspect this has less to do with her being a 'stranger' and more to do with the idea that they are getting ideas above their station and need to be put in their place.
How committed your relationship is has fuck all to do with how much time you spend with your mother. If it was they'd be one of the worlds most committed couples given how much time they seem to spend with the gfs mother.

I think it's interesting that you started this thread in the behaviour/development section of Parenting.

You need to get out of the mindset that he is a child you can mould and control. He's an adult and you need to start thinking of him as one.

I'm going to buck the trend here. I think there are still lots of people who hope that their children will have sex as part of committed relationships rather than casually. I don't think it's that surprising to think you would have had a chance to meet your son's girlfriend if they are in a committed relationship.

If he doesn't like his DM's rules, it would be respectful to move out, I think, rather than coming in to do his washing. My parents would have called this 'treating the place like a hotel!'

In paying rent, you negotiate the rules as an adult. If you pay no rent and do not contribute in any way, little jobs etc, then that is a bit infantile.

I understand where you are coming from OP, but you are going to have to work hard at your relationship to turn this around. You can't do that negatively by insisting he pays rent, moves out, or whatever.

You have to keep going positively as you have with invitations to family events and birthday presents as you have done. Maybe when he comes to do his washing, you give him cake and a cuppa and ask how she is. Sound interested rather than accusatory or judgemental. Build on that.

I think he is being petty. My dh and I weren't allowed to sleep in the same room in his parents house until we were married even though we were living together before that. I accepted that and had no problem sleeping in the spare room when I went for a visit. He could still bring her round to get to know you particularly when she lives in the same town. It's not as if she has to travel miles out of her way to go for a visit.

To me it's not so much about the sex (though most 80yos I know seem a lot more relaxed than the OP on that score): it's about the generally stiff and unwelcoming tone of her posts. If I was the girl, I wouldn't want to be around this potential MIL either. Very glad mine gave off warmer vibes- despite being born in the 1920s.

I still pay his mobile phone bill.
WTF!!! WHY?

Ragwort: "I have no intention of letting my DS share his bedroom with a girlfriend, if that makes me old fashioned and means I see less of him so be it."
If you accept that this rule will inevitably mean that your son is less likely to stay with you and you are happy with that, then that's fine. The OP is complaining that her son doesn't want to spend time with her and do things for her. And I am also the same age with sons only slightly younger. I would rather welcome partners as important people in my adult children's lives and not impose silly rules and my morals on them.

This is the reason why I never stayed at my BF's house but he always stayed at mine. My parents were welcoming, his disapproved - and his mother complained that he wanted to spend more time with me than he did her!! We weren't having sex most of the time, but we did want to sleep together.

You can have your rules, but you can never demand that your children will want to still come and see you as much.

When you are at home on your own, you can think about them having sex somewhere else and feel proud that you haven't allowed it to happen under your roof. I hope the moral superiority is comforting.

He's an adult.

Yes, your house, your rules. So, yes, it's your choice. But that choice will likely cost you a good, long-term relationship with your son. That will be your choice, too.

not impose silly rules and my morals on them - just because you don't share someone's rules and morals it does not make them 'silly'.

My parents had the 'no shared bedroom' rule, I did not find it silly or disrespectful - I fully appreciated that it was their house and they could have whatever rules they liked.

My DSIL was 'cool' about her DD having a BF sleeping over, she bought a double bed for them; what she hadn't thought about was when that relationship ended and there were a number of different BFs being bought home, it then gets quite hard to impose a 'rule' about what is a 'committed' relationship and what isn't. In hindsight she strongly wished she had insisted on BFs using the spare room.

The title of this post just jumped out at me because I don't let them sleep together how is it up to you whether someone in their 20's has sex why do they need permission?

OP, would you put an unmarried couple up in your house? Friends, for instance? If you would then your attitude in your original post towards DS would be unkind hypocrisy, if not then it's my impression you do have a fundamental aversion of some kind to unmarried bed-sharing.

What (apart from marriage) would qualify as a long enough relationship before bed-sharing gets your say so?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news to you, but DS and his GF share a bed and have sex. Except under your roof where it is forbidden. Your house is an intimacy free zone for them because that's the way you like it. They will be aware you are not a friend of their relationship, and avoid you accordingly. Is DS looking at jobs abroad by any chance?