Come and be a Better Parent with us in the Virtual Village

[Letsgoforawalk]

This was originally started by Another Monkey, the virtual village refers to the phrase that 'It takes a village to raise a child'.

You are welcome to vent, to ask for advice or to give us the benefit of your experience. The only thing we all seem to have in common is that we are all either ‘in there’ or have ‘been there’.

Perfection is not the goal, we are more about, as monkey brilliantly put it “choosing one thing to be less crap at at a time”.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child
How to be a Better Parent: No Matter How Badly Your Children Behave or How Busy You Are

Potentially useful websites (useful in quite different ways…..)
www.theorangerhino.com
www.ahaparenting.com
www.renegademothering.com

A wide range of potential sources of advice are listed because all our children are different and no book / technique / tactic will suit every family.

A link to the original thread is shown below, and I think Monkeys OP is worth a read as she sums it all up very well…….

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/a2002053-Does-anyone-else-want-to-come-and-be-a-better-parent-with-me
wecome

hj I also think you did well. Nappy changes are hard as they get older. I love your phrase "possessed by the God of joyful defiance" brilliantly observed!
boo hope the virus or whatever is getting better.
moresnow I like your advice re hitting. And sometimes acting like you don't care is good enough. It works too with bullying, and can be an effective 'self care' tactic (do it often and convincingly enough and you won't care!)
dreaming on the dog boards if you asked about getting a dog for a small child and possibly only walking it 2 or 3 times a week you would need to be wearing your best flameproof overalls. me, I'm not qualified to comment . there is some great advice on there and seems to be a lot of experience to benefit from. Your set up does sound great for a dog, but it could end up being another huge responsibility that you have to find time for. Only you know what time, energy etc you could devote to it. The doghouse on here is a good place to start researching the idea. See you over there

Teenagers sometimes only stop communicating because we give them the message that they have nothing to say that we are interested in. If we stop lecturing, nagging about homework, telling them what they should be doing and actually listen to them, it is often hard to shut them up!
Having two extra this week has been a revelation, I'm going to really miss them when they go
Now I have to go shopping for a training lead and a dog blankets.

Absolutely. Children seem to be expected to behave really well and listen but I don't think most normal children do?! I would choose the caveman life too moresnow

letsgo I don't mean the dog would only go out 2-3 times a week but may well be waiting til the evening to do a specific walk. Could probably join us on lots of our usual walking down to the playground bits (and have a run on the big field there next to it) Go out properly at weekends and in the evenings and run in the garden. I looked at a few threads on the doghouse about "shall we get a puppy?" and mostly found them hugely off putting. Posters saying you could never miss walking your dog, even if you were pretty ill. Almost universally 'no' answers. I was expecting a more mixed bag of responses and was a bit . I would be too scared to post on there, it would 100% be a 'no'! My sister has a big daft dog. Too much brawn and not enough brain IMO. Lovely natured dog. My DD adores it. spends as much time as physically possible with it, cuddling it, lying with her head on it, wanting to walk it. She truly loves him despite his vast size and knock-you-flying bounciness. I'd love us to have a dog. though the point of that was that they both work full time and so also spend shed loads on doggy day care where he goes, as a child would to nursery, when they're both at work and if push came to shove I doubt we could afford a dog walker too if we weren't managing the dog properly. Hmm.

Today has been dreadful. My dh just isn't on board with my gentle parenting tendencies and he absolutely can't manage by himself. He escalates to shouting at them very quickly. Today we went to a soft play in the morning as it was raining. He was off so going to cycle to meet us. Got a puncture so got there 10 minutes before the end of the session. It's on a farm in a barn so I wanted to nip.to the farm shop. I was gone 15 minutes and came in to him so furious he stomped straight out to the car to wait for us there. Apparently they had been throwing blocks (the soft ones) at another child- the dts this is- and didn't listen when he asked them to stop. Then DD wouldn't come and put her shoes on. He will have just got angrier and raisee his voice though; he always does. It never works. Then he tried to hold dt1 into.into the bathroom for.'time out' for throwing cars. Erm, no thanks. Then I went for a bike ride this afternoon, for 50 minutes of 'me' time. Came in just as he started ringing me and he was past it angry that dts had been throwing things at him and he smacked both on their bottom . I told him to get out til he'd got his aggression sorted. I don't know what to.say to him.now. He's very stressed with work but seriously?! they're nearly 3 and 4 and he shouldn't be hitting them. He won't read anything. I send him links he doesn't open. What I say tp him is clearly water off a ducks back. What to do?!?!

They are menaces for me too as you know but I would redirect, remove things they were throwing, get them involved in something else. FFS.

MoreSnow DH pointed out a job at his company the other day and suggested I go for it. I could do the job I reckon but it's not really the field I want to get into. But it's full time... not many job opportunities here where I don't have to speak German either. I keep looking at it and thinking I should go for it. I love teaching but I just have so few hours. 8.5 hours a week at the moment. And I'm not doing anything with the free time except binge watching TV shows and lying around on mumsnet all day!

I have some emotionally draining stuff going on in RL currently so no challenge - when I have a bit more energy I'll do a new one.

Dreaming Yes I find the dog boards a bit and as well. I mean in real life all sorts of people get dogs in all kinds of situations and there isn't so much angst? I get it's a huge commitment but really. Somebody actually checked out of my thread by making it clear they thought I really should not get a dog at all. In fact we are not now. Mainly because DH mentioned the job to MIL, who then revealed that she does in fact have a heart and said "Oh you're not going to leave it alone all day! Oh then we might not breed from the dog at all." (WTF)

Anyway DH was horrified and said, er, if you're only breeding the dog for us, don't! Please! I mean, to be fair, I was not happy about the idea of getting a dog and then leaving it for hours, I just don't think that's fair at all. But because I had thought that DH was dead set on the dog it was putting me off getting the job. It has now, this weekend, gone past the latest time the dog could possibly have been pregnant by for us to get a puppy in time anyway. So we'll see what happens in the future.

Right so back to proper replies - had you specifically discussed/decided no smacking before, Dreaming? I wonder if he's always sort of thought it might be there as a last resort rather than having lost control, but who knows. But talk - not in a persuading, "you must do it my way" kind of thing but in a "are you happy with how things are going, because I'm not, what do we want, where are we going with this?" kind of way. Just ask him, IYSWIM. My DH is not a gentle parent (in the parenting style meaning, he is gentle in personality) and it worried me for a while but we seem to have found a way to rub up against each other now and it works OK, but I had to learn to listen to his point of view as well and not be so immediately defensive about it. He's a lot more traditional but it's fine. And we pick things up from each other. I still get defensive, especially when he uses phrases such as "raised correctly" because I have massive associations with that (which I have no idea where they come from!)

I do tend to think that most parents have at least one moment or episode that they afterwards think what happened there? As long as it's not abusive, and/or he recognises it crossed a line that he didn't want to cross (of course, there's an issue if he crosses a line for you which isn't a line for him, but you still have to discuss that in terms of those lines/boundaries rather than in terms of general parenting style) - then I think you should be supportive as you hope he would be supportive if you messed up. I don't think there is a single poster on this thread who hasn't done something they regret.

Hello again.
I'm sorry I don't feel l can give much advice or support as I'm just stuck in this cycle of shit myself and don't feel qualified to help anyone. After last week's low point where I realised how scared DS1 is of me, I thought I was doing better. But really it was because DH was with me and we were doing fun things. Basically the weeks go downhill as I get more stressed about trying to do things on my days 'off; with DS2. Also as DS1 is cared for by grandparents on tues wed I usually find some reason to be annoyed with the way things have been eg MIL has not taken him out but let him watch TV most of the afternoon which makes him grumpy by the time he's back home. By thurs/Fri when I have them both I am stressed, tired, upset with myself, resentful of all the things and people which I think make DS1 not act the way/do the things I want. Thursday I try really hard not toshout and it makes me feel resentful and emotional. Yesterday I asked my mum to come over in the afternoon as I didn't want to end up shouting at him.

He is a good boy, normal development, most people comment how friendly/helpful/kind he is. He's beautiful, funny,all those things, and actually I think he's pretty well behaved for his age. But for some reason I still get annoyed cos he's too slow or he ignores me or he talks in a nonsense voice.

I terrorise him, with either shouts or grabbing him too hard, or threatening him with things like no more this or that, and I worry that I am scarring him for life.

I'm trying so hard to stay positive and rational but I can feel my emotions and guilt spiralling. For eg he got a new scooter recently and rode it everywhere. Now he doesn't want to so much. Rationally its prob just the fact that its not a novelty now. But I feel like I've done something to make him not enjoy it. Maybe cos I tried to get him to drop naps and he's too tired, or cos I've sapped his spirit with shouting.

I've been telling myself that I am a good mum who is struggling, and that I want to stop it. but I can't seem to change even though it breaks my heart to think I am hurting him. So I am starting to think what if I'm actually just a bad mother. I wanted another child but I can't cope with these ones, DH will never agree to another bc he sees how I am falling apart and that makes me sad too.

I suspect you will all say I am a good mother or at least not a bad one because you are kind supportive people, but really, why I am I like this? Can it really just be tiredness and stress?
Sorry so long, just feel so sad and I don't want to talk to anyone IRL about it.

Hi hazy I really see myself in your post. You are not alone. I too seem to flip and shout at the children and have a (not at all unfounded) fear that they're scared of me sometimes. For example if I hear a crash or lots of crying, the perpetrator has often (usually) run off and hidden. Are they so afraid of how I'll take it? On a good day it's all fine and I comfort the hurt one and discuss with the violence-inflicting one... and then there are the bad days where I need the one being a menace to let me sort the others so put them upstairs (only got one stairgate and it's top of stairs) and I shout and deal with it badly.
I had an epiphany moment today where I realised just how often I sound irritated when talking to DD in particular (clue: it's hideously frequent. "DD, stop tormenting your brothers" "DD I have asked you so many times. Put your shoes on" and so on and so on). I want to be more relaxed. Enjoy our time more. But the dc are dreadful at home and I already take them out more than we can probably really afford. "my going to spoil the puzzles" was all I heard from the dts as DD and I wanted to do a puzzle. I tried engaging them. DH doing one with DD and I did a different one with them; no. They did just want to spoil her activity. I ended up letting DH put the telly on. Again. And feeling like a failure. We all went swimming this afternoon. I was so irritable and snappy getting a whingy DD and dt1 changed.

I really empathise with your sense of failing to do it 'right' and the way you want to hazy. Things have improved for us. We have slipped backwards, badly, I think due to me going to bed too late and then reading my book so going to sleep really late- and being tired and slipping back into bad ways.

My first challenge for my short tempered, impatient self is to WAIT and count to 3 before snapping or reacting (maybe I will also repeat "this is not an emergency" in my head for good measure. ) and go from there. My children are back into saying "orange rhino" to me and prompting me not to shout. While this is hugely irritating, it does make me think. Which can make me stop.

So. There we go. Want to join me in my mini-challenge hazy? I think you sound like a normal mum. A bad mum I see as blaming thedreadful children and taking no responsibility. You are not that. I think you sound lovely. and I hope against hope we are both out own worst critics

bertie it's probably a good call with the dog then, if your work isn't increasing in easy ways to fit one into your life and it could be left alone a lot. My sister pays a lot on her 'doggy day care'. I think £15/day and I think he goes a day or 2 a week (she is a vet so works shifts and weekends and her DH is a policeman so similar). He at least has a dog walker if they're out a lot with their work patterns. I think realistically as much as I'd love a dog, I'm.clearly struggling with a 4 year old and 2 nearly 3 year olds (7 sleeps guys til the dts are 3. Then I have 2 'threenagers', no babies, and DH adamant there will be no more) Waaah!

So I'm back on the pets mission. DH favours rabbits. I think I favour rats as they're easier and MIL has a proper rat phobia which may actually be egging me on (isn't that dreadful!). DD met a friends timid rats yesterday and was fascinated. Not scared. Kept catching them (I was and her mum was too as she doesn't want them scared and they've not had them long so they're not handled much at present)

hazy lots of that stuff seems to relate to 'control' in some way. You have no control over how your MIL chooses to care for DS1. You are getting increasingly stressed over things and events that stop things turning out the way you want.
This is an observation not a criticism. We are kind and supportive but i thought reflecting back what springs out from your post might be more helpful than telling you you are great which you clearly don't feel at the moment.

Lots of people here recommend the buttons book. have you been able to ensure that you are eating and sleeping enough? You sound sad and overwhelmed and lack of food and sleep can contribute to that.
Sorry if stating the bleeding obvious. Have writtent his post between walking dog, gently removing dog from sofa (18 times....) and waving eldest daughter and DH off to the pub.
Dog is lovely, has behaved impeccably (except for the 18 sofa incidents) and when she spotted a cat on the fence. ( she is clearly not cat friendly!) and is now snoozing on the carpet while DD2 and DD3 watch 'grease'.
bertie go for that job!
Oh, it wasn't 6 teenagers! I normally have 2 and last week had 2 more it was great and there were many tears when they left ( all of us!)
dreaming and bertie I know what you mean about the dog boards.....

Oh. And tell me what you would have done here. This afternoon we swam with 2 other families. It's a pool at a caravan park, so there's a café and one of those minute padded cells soft play areas so we all had a drink afterwards. A friend's DD, who's 4 weeks younger than mine so basically about 4.5,pushed into the queue to jump off some blocks they'd stacked. No other child bothered. Her mum said no, don't push in. Go back one. Her DD didn't listen. so she physically moved her back a place and she went bonkers and was crying and kicking out, so she just said she'd count to 5 and carry her out and take her home.if she didn't calm down. She didn't so that's what happened. She brief said to me ands she left that her DD had to learn to speak too her properly and not be a toad or words along those lines. If it were me I'd have either ignored the whole thing as no one else was bothered or if it got to the kicking point just taken DD out to calm down for a minute. Definitely not given a count of 5 and then that's it. But now I'm really wondering if I'm just being too permissive? Not enough boundaries there? (my worries about boundaries are mostly around no not always meaning no, and me being too quick to bend over sideways, backwards, any which way to help a situation go smoothly while not getting a terrible outcome) . I initially thought she was a bit OTT but now I wonder about whether that's about skewed perspective. Opinions please?

Sounds like she was fighting a battle that didn't need fighting. If no other child was that fussed.

No does need to mean absolutely definitely not even if the walls fall down no. But you should consider carefully what you are saying 'no' to. A couple of moments consideration along the lines of "is this battle worth fighting?" Or "will my child learn anything useful from this?" Before embarking on said battle.

I'm with your original thought I think, there are other ways to teach 'turn taking' other than pitting yourself against a tantrum. And 'turn taking' was the lesson she was trying to enforce, rather than teach.

Dog has been thrown gently off the sofa a few more times and has now settled in her bed.
Realising I know nothing about dogs, despite all the reading......what have we done ?
It's going to be fun learning

Sounds OTT to me, but no way of really knowing.

Although, soft play is my idea of hell and I might readily seize on any opportunity to leave early that presented itself!

We have all been very irritable and snappy in the last couple of days - a real emotional rollercoaster.Tiredness is definitely playing a big role in it all, so why am I still on MN instead of going to bed, esp. with clock change to add in??!

Letsgo, yes, I think a lot of it is about control; in my work life I really get stressed if I'm not in control whereas once I feel it's under my control I don't mind how much work gets given to me I feel I can do it.I know I also set high standards for myself and am very critical of myself if I'm not meeting them.

Food and sleep -hmm. Currently cutting out dairy as we suspect bf DS2 is intolerant, so that is making it harder to eat well as it cuts out some of my easy snacks and meals though I am trying. And re sleep I've not really been letting DH help recently - eg he offers every morning to be up with the biys and I refuse. this (i've just realised) is because I don't feel like I deserve rest as I have so much to do and am being so shit with it all. so thats counter prdocutive and I will try to accept next time he offers.

Dreaming I will join you in the 3 second challenge.

Have to admit I would probably have done something similar to soft play mum. Not because I think it's the right thing but I can see how it would play out:

• I'd step in and say no about the pushing because I feel immense pressure for DS to play nicely as it were. He's quite energetic and enthusiastic so I am always fearful people will think he's a brat and step down too hard often on things which might be perceived as brattish, bullyish or impolite. (he's 3, FGS - those high standards for me extend to him I guess)
• if he defies me I very often start to panic and use the counting/threat becuase it's a way to stop myself shouting, iyswim

-of course once you've said it you have to follow through or the counting doesn't work when it's actually appropriate. -as I dragged him out I would be thinking 'wtf am i doing this is a complete overraction and now I have to deal with him being sad and annoyed all morning, if only I had just moved him away instead

Moresnow my DS! was like that at that age (all of 3 months ago!) I think it's a development thing as he is generally much more co-operative now, negotiates less or at least seems to know when it's not worth carrying on. Perhaps he's pushed that boundary and found the times I will compromise and the times I won't, so he doesn't need to try every time. So I guess the advice is keep firm on some areas and maybe have a phrase - mine is "Ok, you want x, and the choices are y and z. Well this isn't a compromise area DS1, sorry, so will you have y, or z?" If he keeps trying to negotiate I keep repeating that or maybe add in "that's a good idea for a compromise DS1, but I'm sorry this time I can't compromise it has to be z or y" or "nice try to negotiate DS1, but I'm sorry..." ( this said in a genuinue way if I can manage it or usually with a half laugh as he is a pretty good diplomat!)

I find it so hard to believe you nod along - not that you nod; and I believe that you are the same (why would you lie?!) - but in my head I have told myself I am so much worse than everyone else it is a shock to hear I am not. Perhaps I need more iron/sleep etc. Was aneamic after DS2's birth,and slightly traumatised bv a PPH and other events after the birth. I feel now how I felt then: wading in treacle and borderline depressed; every little thing gets me down.

Today was ok because DS1 was a bit ill so my maternal side overrode the low mood as he was so pathetic. Tomorrow he will likely be off nursery so lets see how I cope with the change of plans/inability to tackle the things I wanted to tackle.

My goals:

• count to three when something triggers me.
• get to his level/engage and make eye contact before asking things
• accept negative thoughts but don't dwell. My positive messages to self: I am a normal mum under pressure; today is just one day.

- have fun with both of them - giggle every hour if possible.

Hazy, I like your goals
Hope the day off nursery went ok.

I know it is a bit off topic but the dog is brilliant!
Has been clean in the house and no puddles, settled and slept both nights so far. Quietly sits under the table or retreats to her crate while we eat. Calm and settled in the house (mostly!) keeps looking at me with her lovely brown eyes. .........

The DCs have continued to show more interest in their phones than the dog, and DH has also continued with his clash of clans addiction and ignored her on many occasions. .
I will clearly be doing the bulk of the extra work that will be generated - but I knew that - my house will probably never be clean again

However, I now have a 4 legged licky alarm clock that can be released on them all

Crazily hectic time here so no time to post. Guessing others must be similar. How did it go with your goals hazy?

I had a very long post all typed out and then my phone refreshed the page and it disappeared.
The long and short of it: I've felt so unhappy lately because of DS1 that I told DH that DS1 actually made me hate being a parent.
DH's face said it all and he wasn't supportive, which compounded how I felt as DS1 very rarely acts up or out for him, it made for a horrible evening and night.
Then like things tend to go, DS1 turned a little corner and is now on day three of not driving me to tears. I can even say that yesterday I raised my voice -more than I wanted to- but I didn't have to absolutely lose it and sound like a demon to get DS1 to listen to me.
He has started doing a high pitched little laugh when he's being unkind or uncooperative, which grates, but I am trying to not react. He also went to spit earlier and I walked away not reacting. Progress for me.

Doctorboo, really good to hear that DS1 has turned a corner - hopefully it will be a postive cycle if you feel able to react more calmly and that helps him to calm down too? Is he due his assessment soon? It sounds like it's been a pretty turbulent time for him with the boys who "don't" hit/kick etc, but perhaps he is finding a way to cope with that better now?

But sorry you are feeling so crap underneath the postive few days, and that your DH wasn't supportive. I think the different attitudes/assumptions we bring to parenting can really make it hard to get where our partners are coming from sometimes. For eg, I take it all much more personally than my DH: if DS1 is misbehaving/not eating/early waking then it must be MY fault . I think its my control/perfectionism/workaholic tendencies. But DH is able to be more objective about it: he can see that DS1 is just being a pretty normal 3yo and it's not just our parenting choices. So he can sometimes get exasperated with the way I get so stressed/depressed/angry about DS1's behaviour, because he can see that it is often counterproductive.

That's not to say your DH shouldn't be supportive - after all that's what a partnership is about, trying to see the other perspective - but perhaps he doesn't get your underlying attitudes and is simply scared by how upset you are?

I hope you can have some positive time together over Easter

eh?? That was meant to be a bunny, but oh welll, maybe its a hint that you should have a wee dram over the weekend to perk up the Bank Hol?

Good idea hazy
Hope everyone is ok and that you and your families have a nice bank holiday weekend.
is this one new?
Dog still fab. We can't believe our luck
Keeping me busy though, kids are having to fend for themselves more. This is a Good Thing.

Oh yes, so important to try not to take things personally. And three is such a challenging age. If you have DH around then can you make some kind of emergency sign to him so he can take over if you are worried you are going to lose it? I used to do this when DH was here, but he wasn't always here. Sometimes when he wasn't here I would phone him. I still do that now, if he's at work or something.

DH made a challenge to DS about food today and sort of shushed me when I objected and I bit my tongue even though I was mad about it and then when it was all over and DS was out of earshot DH admitted he was wrong We talked about it and I was glad I hadn't jumped down his throat and overall it was good.

Hazy that sounds a lot like I was when DS was three - the physical/scaring stuff is not okay so needs a strategy to manage it definitely. I can also relate to wading in treacle and feeling depressed - would it be an option for you to see the GP about this? Even just for blood tests because it's common to be depleted in something or other months or years after childbirth, they prescribed me ferritin which is something to do with iron absorption and vitamin D. Not that I remembered to take it How much sleep are you getting?

Looking back I think I tried to compromise a bit too much and perhaps this was confusing. I think that compromising works better when they are older, and at three it's better to give a choice or offer what you are comfortable with and he takes it or leaves it.

With the scooter - I think this is just one of the infuriating things about three year olds! They are very obsessive - but their obsessions can switch suddenly. Keep the scooter as an option but don't push it and you'll probably find he comes back to it again. But I did find this - brand new toy and it lasts all of five minutes and then you're left feeling a bit of a mug. But they don't see it that way, they don't understand that it cost money, they don't understand that you put a lot of thought or feeling into getting it for them, it's just not their favourite thing right now. Perhaps he'll be more into it when the weather is better. It's really unlikely to be anything you've done or said.

If you're managing to giggle once an hour - that's fantastic! Personally I did not enjoy it anywhere near that much at that point. But something that has helped a lot in general is trying to write down one thing I enjoyed doing with DS every day.

And if I can just add - that was one of the worst things for me at that time, thinking that everyone else was enjoying it so much. No, three is pretty hellish and it's okay not to enjoy it all - or even most - of the time. You would be surprised by the number who don't, actually, because all I was hearing and seeing around me was people adoring their three year olds and I thought I was broken.

Oh gosh Bertie thank you, I really did need to read this today. I am not enjoying 3 very much at all. DS often seems just hellbent on resisting and disagreeing with everything I say, and I made it a hundred times worse this morning by getting shouty and impatient. I am exhausted as DD not sleeping well at the moment and need to find a way to pull the day back. But however much I try to keep in mind that it's developmentally normal, there's still a big part of me thinking I am only human FFS, and how much more challenging can I take.

Agree too. I was a single parent 22 years ago and remember thinking "why do people go on about the terrible two's?"
I found 3 much more challenging.
Bertie. Well done on tongue biting. I need to do that too sometimes
And v well done to your DH for admitting his plan was wrong.