Come and be a Better Parent with us in the Virtual Village

[Letsgoforawalk]

This was originally started by Another Monkey, the virtual village refers to the phrase that 'It takes a village to raise a child'.

You are welcome to vent, to ask for advice or to give us the benefit of your experience. The only thing we all seem to have in common is that we are all either ‘in there’ or have ‘been there’.

Perfection is not the goal, we are more about, as monkey brilliantly put it “choosing one thing to be less crap at at a time”.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child
How to be a Better Parent: No Matter How Badly Your Children Behave or How Busy You Are

Potentially useful websites (useful in quite different ways…..)
www.theorangerhino.com
www.ahaparenting.com
www.renegademothering.com

A wide range of potential sources of advice are listed because all our children are different and no book / technique / tactic will suit every family.

A link to the original thread is shown below, and I think Monkeys OP is worth a read as she sums it all up very well…….

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/a2002053-Does-anyone-else-want-to-come-and-be-a-better-parent-with-me
wecome

If only they played with their siblings. Today DD whacked dt1 (the one with reflux) on the bead after tea with a wooden cube puzzle piece. Hard enough to have him really cry ad therefore vomit up every last mouthful of his tea . I was so cross I pit her upstairs behind our only stair gate to stop her fucking well hurting the other twin while I sorted him and the vomit and made him some fried eggs on toast. No words "don't take my puzzle piece" or anything. No calling for me. No chance of walking away..Just straight to pulling and snatching then hitting and hurting. A million times a day. I. Am. So. Fed. Up.

I really wish I could just keep them all separate all day unless I'm there and able to supervise. I can't clear the table without something like this happening. ARGH!!!!!

Mainly the facebook stuff. She goes through periods of being more/less helpful, I'll see if I can pull some links down later perhaps.

Some Andrea Nair links.

Phrases for use with 3 and 4 year olds

How to build trust

Really interesting read about PND at 3 years

Handling the fournado (3 and 4 year olds)

What to do when a child hits you

Just for you Dreaming - there's actually one on twins! I have no idea how helpful this is, though, sorry if it's rubbish.

Handling meltdowns

and lastly

When you fall "out of like" with your child

Thanks again, Bertie, some really good links there.

So much to think about in these posts.

I'm going to have a read of those Andrea Nair links as I've not seen much of her writing, thanks Bertie.

I lost it today. Sobbed in the car in front of them. My biggest breaking point at the moment is when DS switches, his behaviour is dire and there is no getting through to him. It's like in that moment he's not him, not my boy, his body language changes and he even mumbles to himself that 'DS isn't around at the moment'. so it's frustrating and annoying but I also find that it scares me because I don't understand it and oh god there are too many emotions to list. But I'm getting to grips, just about, with sitting on all that emotion and dealing with it. But now, DD gets involved too and when I got really cross today (for good reason, it certainly wasn't a short fuse) the two of them laughed and laughed, repeatedly, and that's when I lost it. It comes back to the lack of control mentioned a little up thread, I guess. And absolutely the lack of downtime.

There are days when I want to climb onto the roof and scream I'm only fucking human, how much of this shit am I supposed to take while still floating serenely like fucking supernanny?

But I do feel a kind of hate of myself for being such a let down to these two little people who are my world. Why the hell can't I control it? I'm so embarrassed at my own tantrums. I don't recognise that person. And even though I try to give myself some credit for how the good days now significantly outweigh the bad, I know today we've made a massive step back. When I say I lost it, it's not physical or even particularly cutting. But I know that even a serious face scares DS so me having a meltdown sends his world right out of kilter. And I'm the parent, I just don't want them to see that kind of toddler behaviour from their mother, it's ridiculous.

And as my own parents are difficult, I feel adrift with the lack of support and lack of a role model to aspire to and the fact that their model is probably my default terrifies me.

Sorry about the lack of specific replies tonight. It's a bit of a brain dump.

Where's Letsgo btw? Has she defected to the doggy board?!

Yes, thanks for those links, Bertie, have followed her on FB now. :)

Thanks for the links bertie I have read all but the last 2. I actually thought the multiples one was great; sibling rivalry as a definite huge issue and just to make a plan. It was reassuring. I need to discuss the hows and whys of what I'm trying and failing to do more with dh.

anothermonkey another post that really resonates with me- especially about my own toddler tantrums (defiance and purposefully doing the opposite really get me and the laughing!! oh the laughing) I think if you can say the good days outweigh the bad that's great. I think I'm still at 50:50 which is not so great! I do think sometimes they pish you too far and there's no way back and them knowing there are limits to what mummy can take is not necessarily a bad thing. Though I know frightening them isn't great. I don't think it's the most enormous step back though. In one of berties links about trust Andrea Nair says the odd blip is ok and not insurmountable if the foundation is there. I'm sure that is you (and me, I really hope!)

In other news today we are just getting through after a vomiting bug last night for DD (maybe why behaviour was quite so awful?!) She just couldn't stop being sick til about 6am. Then slept til nearly 9 and seems to have perked up. Looks like we will miss her last swimming lesson of term though, the badge one. She says she really wants to go too. Dammit bugs!!!!

Still been wondering about a pet for her. My sister reckons for us a small/medium sized dog with a good temperament would be better than a rabbit by far. More affectionate. Easier to cuddle. As we have a big garden, doing lots of throwing balls around outside would be enough for some days for it- according to her some breeds only need a decent walk 2-3 times a week especially as we have a 1/3 of an acre for the dog to run in outside. Hmm. I need letsgo to come back from the doggy boards for an opinion I'm wondering if having an animal might help make her feel less pushed out by the dts? Anyway, best go!

Thanks for the links Bertie I've started with the PND post.

I've had a 'fail' day so far. I've been trying to pause and be positive (so i sound gentler and kinder) when DS1 calls, or asks me something; instead of immediately jumping to the negative with a -very- negative tone in my voice.
My two won't leave each other alone and I spent most of my morning trying not to froth with hopeless rage, unable to cope with how DS1 gets me stressed so easily.
He's just so persistent.

I've sworn a few times from frustration (within ear shot, not at him) and hate myself for it. I can't even give gentle reminders or suggestions...or support when I'm wound up He didn't behave brilliantly at nursery today and when we got home he said he'd put mud on a friend's head and hit him-both were on purpose, the other kid then retaliated, which DS1 took umbridge to.

I know tomorrow's another fresh start, my goal is to not use a horrible voice and give cuddles before the meltdowns start.

Sorry!
All been passing around a horrid cold here and it's my turn now.
I've also got two exchange students staying and trying to prepare for dog, cook, run students around and work doesn't leave much time for MN. Plus every time I actually get my hands on the iPad it means DH can't play his game on it, so he's bored, so he decides a chat would be nice, then gets huffy if I want to read what you are all saying.
So sorry, have just skim read all the recent posts.

No chance of individual replies sorry, but if anyone rolls their eyes and says "you think this is tough, wait til they are teenagers..." Then you can blow them a raspberry from me. I found the toddler /preschool years a challenge. I've currently got a 13,14,15 and 17 year old here, they are having an absolute blast. The energy they are bringing to the place is just brilliant. I've just left them all clearing up after tea and now they are preparing pudding. They popped to the shop for extra milk earlier.
Yes it is messy and noisy but it is great. Hang on in there, it does get easier, be kind to yourselves. Let things go. Many of you have challenging spirited children, it will get easier, they will always be spirited. This is a good thing.
Hugs to all.

What a great post Letsgo. Hope you feel better soon!

Have been continuing to lurk and learning loads from this thread.

Here's a specific question from today. As a reminder, DS is 19m and my first. What's a good strategy for effective discipline and not feeling pissed off when they deck you?

He's not done it in anger yet and it only seems to happen when he's tired / would up and we're being affectionate. So I'm feeling all loving then get hit in the face. I say (or shout) no, put him down somewhere away from me and ignore him until I calm down - he just follows me around trying to get me to play again. He doesn't seem particularly upset. But, (fortunately) not having form for getting struck in the face, I get and stay furious.

He doesn't do this to other kids or adults as far as I know, but has done it to me on several occasions. It's always when we're being affectionate, and often but not always when he's tired. Once he's done it once, he almost always repeats it after coming for a "I'm sorry" cuddle. Which makes me even more .

Tips most welcome. ??

At that age we used to try to pre-empt - grab arm mid hit and say no, we don't hit people. You can hit the sofa/bed/etc (something soft ish which is nearby)

Although since DS still occasionally hits at 6 I'm not sure it's a winning strategy but it did seem to help him stop and think at the time - I remember in one particularly memorable tantrum he turned around, screamed at and bit the stairs! It was hilarious

Although in affection.... hmmm.... thing is at that age I'm sure 99% of hitting is miscommunication. Is he trying to emulate a game, like a rhythmic patting or stroking? (I remember a hilarious thread where a poster's toddler bit her and she was really shocked and didn't realise why until her DD said "Mummy d'lishus?" and she suddenly realised that she'd been playing a game with her where she'd pretend to eat her, but the toddler hadn't realised it wasn't the same as real eating!

I think you need to tell him how it makes you feel, rather than doing a sort of time out, because I don't think he's making the connection that you want him to stop. So instead of walking away can you show him your natural cross/upset/hurt face when he does it and say "Ow!! That really hurt me. Not nice." (Keep simple language, obv) Show him an alternative instead? He could stroke your hair, or perhaps do a high five? Say something simple like "Would you like to do this instead? That's nice! I like that!" (big happy face).

That's very much, botts, that's really helpful. ( about biting steps!) I think I did do a big "ouch, ouch! You hurt mummy!" After the latest one (which still stings) but only after shouting NO! putting him on the floor. All more reaction than I should have given (he tends to repeat things once it gets a response if he's in a testing mood) but I was just so angry. Which feels awful when I know he's not doing it out of anger or malice himself. But he really packs a wallop and it's hard to turn off the part of the brain that equates being hit with feeling angry.

Will try to redirect next time - he just seems to get worked up and excited and then flappy. I'll try to get him to flap on something else.

Had moderate succes this afternoon. DS1 was being strangely overwrought after one thing and another but I mostly managed not to get sucked into the maelstrom. Not quite sure how I managed to find a calm place to react from but happy that it worked for once. :-)

Nice to hear of success, blue - that space of calm to work from feels great, doesn't it? I get it only sporadically and cherish it. Can't imagine how different parenting would be if I were there all the time.

Yeah, me too. This morning has been less positive. Oh well, onwards and upwards.

Well done Blue. Looking back what do you think helped? Would love to hear any ideas. Rubbish day here - had a really broken night's sleep thanks to DD so started the day SO scratchy and impatient with DS, and his behaviour went downhill accordingly. We were out with DM and I felt a (real or imagined) pressure to just make him behave, all the while failing to do so and feeling more and more useless and ineffective. So difficult to try to repair it and reconnect with him, when I just wanted to scream why do you have to do this, now, here! I'm trying so fucking hard to do right by him and just feel like running away today. Hoping that a cuddle and bedtime story will help to repair things.

Don't know really, maybe that he was clearly upset rather than just being angry? I also remembered something from Andrea Nair about putting a snack where he can get it later rather than getting into a row about whether or not he's hungry. He often is when upset but doesn't always want to admit it.

Thanks Blue, always good to remember that -like the toddlercalm thing of "they are having a hard time" rather than "they are giving me a hard time". God I am counting down till bedtime now though. DS has been so hyped and wired this last hour (we are also going through the whole joy of giving up the nap) and it feels so, so hard to reach my lovely boy when he gets like this. Has anyone got any calm down strategies that don't go over a 3 year old's head?

I had my moment of acceptance today with the correlation between illness and extreme behaviour:

DS1 woke at 5.30 from wetting the bed- occasionally happens in the early hours, not close to morning to morning time.
Both kids piled in to our bed and we all snuggled until 'yellow sun' (gro clock) @ 6.15am.
Both DS's have only wanted me today which causes friction between themthem and I find hard dealing with the constant whinging and moaning, but i managed not to shout.
DS1cried hysterically when my parents popped in to say goodbye before they left for France at midmorning and wanted to lay down with me and was tearful until 12.
He then burst in to tears when he saw me at Nursery pick up (3pm). Apparently he'd been waiting for me (!!) He was hot to touch (which the staff had missed) and he wet himself at 4.30 during an unexpected nap, and after a wee less than a hour before.

I haven't had to do timeout with him or done crazy shouting (mostly because I've been hugging away his upset) and I could cry from the relief of not being a raging bitch for one day. DS2 is slowly copying the unkind behaviour (hitting, kicking, scratching) and I just don't want him doing it, especially as I've got less than 14wks until DS3 is here.

Sorry about the typos, I was jigging DS2 to sleep (18m regression and a dose of teething thrown in). Just come out of their room to find DS1's temp is up, could be a long night!

Oh no, doctorboo, best wishes for a restful night. It's so hard when they're ill.

Didn't do very well at the stay calm and redirect tonight, botts. He was in a lovely mood on the way back from nursery, DH is away so just me and DS getting ready for dinner. The usual pre-dinner whinging was avoided (hurrah!) and he asked to dance with me while things cooked. I started dancing with him, picked him up to whirl him about, all happy smiles but he's pulling on my (favourite and not too sturdy jumper). A kind-voiced "please don't pull my jumper" quickly brought on more vigorous pulling and then a slap to the face.

He's wound up and moving fast when it happens, so don't really know how to slow him down enough to focus on doing something else. And with one arm (barely) holding him, I can't do much but block with the other hand. Kept calm, placed him down facing away from me with a "we don't hit". He comes straight over, I offer a hug, he slaps again. Repeat the same response then dinner is fine.

Proper blow up comes after bath, getting him dry and putting his nappy on. He tries to turn keeping his legs up so you can't fasten the sides into a 'game', which I usually ride out with calm "legs down please" and "do you want to X? Well then we need to get this nappy on. Legs down!" Tonight he's not having it and starts playfully kicking, then twisting his hips so he kicks me hard. Tried asking if he wanted a book as redirection, nothing doing - just kicking and laughing and looking me in the eye like he's possessed by the God of Joyful Defiance.

In this situation I can't very well put him down and it's the physical struggling that brings down the red mist for me so I don't want to just strong-arm him into the nappy. Ended up popping him on the floor and in his cot and walking away (after a bit of a shout ) , then returning and asking "are you ready to get dressed for bed without kicking ?" Took maybe five increasingly angry goes to finish. Feels so dispiriting to pick such a happy little guy up from nursery and degenerate into such angry feelings by bedtime.

HJ it sounds pretty normal to me and i think you handled it fine. Not really sure where you're worried you went wrong? Or is it just the fact it happens in the first place? It's boundary pushing I think from your description. And nappy changes they jusy hate being lain down. I used to pin down for poo (necessary) or do it standing up for wet, with pull ups (though you can learn to do it with a normal one too.) Pull ups are actually not for potty training any more because they are as absorbent as a normal nappy. Useful for this stage.