Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

dreaming your dt1 sounds just like my DS2. He also only seems to enjoy destroying things and as pooling his brother's fun. It's SO frustrating! We've also tried everything - ignoring, distracting, removing, involving, you name it. The problem is DS1 loves to build, create, learn, explore and is such a perfectionist (like his mum) that he gets really angry when little brother comes along and destroys whatever he's just put his heart and soul into, that it nearly always ends in fisticuffs with them :( Thus causing my already high stress levels to rocket into orbit.

SPOILING not as pooling. Stupid tablet.

Just found this article on another thread: notjustcute.com/2014/09/10/six-ways-youre-unintentionally-telling-kids-not-to-listen

Not much time sorry. I've managed to read everything and only have two points to make.
mandbabe home made lasagne, two small children, heavily pregnant.... You have nothing to worry about, I'm starting to wonder if you are some sort of super human. I'm really glad it is helping you being on this thread because it is lovely to hear about the immense leaps you are making in managing your 'short fuse' and how you relate to your expanding family.

dreaming lack of sleep, critical comments from your dad, big rows with OH on holiday and you are doing all you can to do the best by your children by research and thinking. I'd have my head in a bucket of wine I think and be telling everyone to eff off (unless they were offering more wine or to have the children for a few days while I caught up on sleep)

hello all; we've had a fairly good day all things considered, only buggered up at bedtime when dd1 decided that the train track needed to be put away (this is a first, surely?) and I couldn't get her attention (was trying to get her to bed), ended up shouting her name very loudly, cue crying, lashing out at me - which to be fair she hasn't done the last few days when we have been trying to be positive, not to raise our voices etc. Guilt. I was trying to leave the house too, as babysitting DN - who is one of those children who listens, usually accepts 'no' etc.

We had also been trying to get DD1 to sign her aunt's birthday card - she does have a long name, it was late. But she can write it - when I asked her about it later she said she doesn't want to because she makes mistakes. So I think she won't try things if she thinks she can't do them. This makes sense (to me) of the fact that she is a bright child who is performing very averagely at school. So it's all about confidence and self-esteem, even though I think we praise her when she does things well, and encourage her as much as possible. She thinks that she can't read, but she actually can. Parent mentor talked about this a bit - she needs to be empowered to fulfil her potential, but I've no idea of how to go about this. She gets so frustrated and upset about things she can't do, that I guess we do things for her too often - even things that I know she can do.

moresnow - you are right of course, but chuckling inwardly to myself at the idea that dd would do anything to please us!

Now Then.

LetsGo, where are you.

It is DAYS after I read your post but I am still singing 'WHAT DOES THE FOX SAY? Ma Ma Ma Ma MA ma MOW'. Out loud. In somebody else's office. Without realising it.

I'm giving you my first

Hope we're all doing OK. mandbaby I'm trying to remember how far along you are now, it must be getting close. for you, I hope you're taking it easy.

dreaming and mandbaby those links were really interesting.

Really have to go, at work, trying to stay quiet.....

6 days til my due date, eeeeek!!

Hello please can I join in? I live in the Algarve, Portugal. Got an 8year old girl from english first marriage & a 2 year old boy with my portuguese hubby. We have a restaurant so my husband works a lot and I am at home most nights on my own with the kids. I do marketing, website and social media for our restaurant but essentially a stay at home mum. I describe myself as a "huffy and puffy" mum. My patience wears thin. My 8 year old girl is like a mini-teenager sometimes and talks back to me, my 2 year old has the most defiant character I've ever seen and is going through the stage of nipping and scratching me. I've got a lot of expat friends here but very few with 2 year olds so I feel I need a "forum" to discuss things. I am yet to start potty training, I know my son, one day he will sit on the loo at that will be that! I want to be a better mum, not to snap and be a fun mum again.

God I really need this thread right now. Is it ok if I join?

I'm a shouter and a snapper and I don't want to be.

My main issue is not listening. For example ds has some tomato plants and baby apple trees in pots in the garden. I reminded him to water them this afternoon after school.

"Ds are you going to water your plants now?"
"yay! can I use the hose and do all of the plants?"
"yes but please only water the pots and not the fence or the patio"
"ok"
"So what are you watering?"
"the pots"
"what did I ask you not to do?"
"water the fence and the patio"
"ok good"

5 minutes later the entire garden and fence is completely soaked APART from most of the pots. I really thought I was avoiding the potential issue of him spraying water everywhere (which he has done regularly before) by asking him not to do it and making sure he'd heard me but all that happened was I ended up even more enraged because he had deliberately done exactly what I asked him not to do. Any advice?

Another example

"How long is left on your tv programme you two?"
"about 10 minutes"
"ok finish watching then go upstairs and get washed and ready for bed"
"ok"
"right programme's finished up you go"
"but I wanted to watch another one/but dd watched her programme now I haven't watched mine..."
"Come on it's bedtime, I let you finish this one"

"upstairs please"

"I'm starting to get cross now. please go upstairs and get ready for bed"

"what are you meant to be doing?"
"Dunno"
"Go. Upstairs. And. Get. Ready. For. Bed"

"UPSTAIRS NOW"

"I will listen to you when you're ready for bed. Go upstairs please"

AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

He he
another you have made my day
Welcome algarve and biff the more the merrier!
Great links up thread. Like the "six ways" one especially
biff the TV /bedtime scenario....oh yes I recognise that one. As ever no time but may post later if I can wrestle the ipad off OH
mandbaby so close!!! Good luck (and ......breeeeeeathe.......)

I nearly had a good day today. Helped by no fb (I've decided fb is the addictive work of the devil, do hard to resist) . Helped by my mum being here (no mum for a month as she's off on holidays for 3 weeks and due to the days she goes and the normal Monday she comes to me that's a month without my lifeline- I mean, mum). Helped as dt1 only woke once so not so tired.

Until I lost the plot at teatime. After surviving both dd swimming lesson with 2 two year old I tow and the playground with no huge meltdowns I managed to have a tantrum.at tea as I'd stupidly let dd finish a "paint your own teaset" kit. she was tired. She painted everything bar the teaset (hands, face, table) with the ceramic (staining) paint. dt2 was lyung in the kirchen floor in the way whinging (hungry) dt1 had burnt his hand on the kettle helping grandms and was whinging. I had yet another headache and snapped at them all to just come and do as they're asked first time for once.

Ok otherwise though. And that's something for first weekday post holiday surely? ! I was really pleased I stayed calm through all sibling bickering and walloping all day until tea.

Ha! Yes. That bedtime is me every night. Argh. The random anecdotes just kill me. Tonight DS decided it would be fun to dump laundry all over the floor, including wet towels and underwear. So after refusing to clear it up I dumped it all on his bed (Maturity: I have none, apparently) He put it back in the laundry basket just to come and fling it at me bit by bit, so DH gave him 5 minutes to finish clearing it up or he would lose his story/TV episode. He spent most of his 5 minutes laughing and pelting me with stuff which I ignored and then when told he had one minute let spent the last minute whining that I'd wasted all his time and it wasn't fair and he had to start all over again. So that was successful. DH ended up sitting in his room while he melted down over it.

Having a lot of trouble with this kind of reaction to time boundaries at the moment. Messing around/dithering for 90% of it and then shouting and arguing at the end and no understanding that he is wasting all of his time that he's supposed to be doing something in! I mean surely they should understand the concept at almost 6 years old? Are we being really unreasonable in expecting him to get that saying "You have X minutes" means "so don't waste those minutes arguing and being silly"?

Dreaming what about that link was it that upset you? If you feel OK talking about it.

My positive for today was that walking home from kindergarten via the supermarket we had a REALLY good, lovely, enthusiastic, excited conversation (unprompted!) about what he'd got up to today. They're doing some preparation for school which is really exciting for him and they measured everyone and found out he was the tallest in the class :)

So I typed a proper reply to this late last night, managed in accidentally catch a link while scrolling and lost it all. SO annoying as I'm just not getting time to post generally.

Welcome algarvemum and biffabin - lots of familiar territory in your posts!!

bertie your love for your boy and his company really shine through in your positives

mandbaby ooooooohhhh nearly there! Promise us you'll try to get as little rest between now and baby.

dreaming there's lots of positive in your last post. Everyone's a bit over it by teatime, I can practically see the glass of wine hovering in front of me like a mirage by that point You're doing really well.

When I lost my post I had been writing about some of the useful techniques in the book letsgo recommended (How To Be A Better Parent) because some have solved ongoing problems fast. Hoping to find some time later.

Lots of typos, sorry!

bertie I found the bot about 'dangling love' and eg being really stern and 'you must tidy up' and then only 'rewarding' with the loving behaviour for good things like being helpful, kind etc. I find I do that without intending to. But when they're playing up I do get irritated and I'm not all over them and I worry I'm going to create children desperate for more love and positive attention and look for it in all the wrong ways.

sorry, really don't have time to post. I was crap getting them out the house this morning and shouted again at them all. mostly as I was late because I washed my hair (normally shower at night) and then ringing schools to book visits. so late late late so for playgroup and when they wouldn't cooperate took it out on them. Mature. I join you bertie (except you sound way more mature than me really)

Clawed it back by apologising to them on the way and a lovely afternoon riding bikes at the river. Plus solo bedtime with no grumpiness (from me. dt1 a different story)

Maybe a sand timer bertie so a visual cue for him?

do calling, promised no phone!

moresnow how old is he? DD1 will not look at me if I am telling her off/lecturing her etc. I too have brick wall issues. So occasionally I just make a joke of it and say blah lblah blah blah CHOCOLATE blah blah blah. Testing her hearing...sand timer is a good idea. Had some success getting DD to dress herself this morning - using annoying yelling monkey toy. She thought it was funny to get it to screech every time she put on an item of clothing. But we still have a lot of "you do it/I can't/its too hard" - so realising that we have effectively disempowered her by trying to offset her distress at things she finds difficult.

Dreaming, I think that feeling a bit grumpy with your DC and not being overly positive and not wanting to be all affectionate with them is different to actively thinking "I mustn't hug him or say or do anything positive right now in case he takes it as the wrong message". It's about being able to still say "I love you" after you've had a bad bedtime or offer sympathy when they're hurt even if it was their own fault, being able to be normal with them when your hurt feelings are calmed down.

I don't know if that makes sense? But I think it's stemming from a totally different thing. It's natural to be a bit grumpy towards someone if they are pissing you off but it's harmful to stonewall, sulk or hold a grudge for a long time. DH used to do this a bit with DS (but not with me!) because he was in a dog training mindset where you go OTT with reward, positivity, praise, treats, fuss, happy face etc when the dog is behaving as you would like and the total opposite - ignoring, withdrawing and refusing attention, disapproving tone, facial expression etc when the dog is behaving in a way you don't like. The thing is that children aren't dogs and we don't need to condition them so heavily because they will eventually grow up and along the way develop their own morals which will guide them. So our job isn't to basically make all of their behaviour about our approval (because that can backfire really spectacularly at the point at which they start rejecting our approval ie adolescence) but more about helping and guiding them to find the morals that we agree with. There are even some schools of thought which say we shouldn't interfere with our childrens' morals and should let them develop on their own even if they challenge what we feel is right. I don't know what that theory says about absolute wrongs though like murder - perhaps they believe that nobody could develop that mindset unless they are severely damaged, but I'm not sure - I think the world history of wars would say otherwise!

strangely enough, I've been thinking a lot about the negativity/self-esteem stuff, and I think the key thing is resilience - that children have inner belief so that they can turn to inner resources when things get tricky. I actually think that DD1 is resilient - she copes with not being friends with the alpha girls and all the rest. I am a university teacher, and I was talking to my new class - listening to myself turn everything they said into a talking point, something of interest etc, and wondering "why can't I do the same thing with DDs?"

Moresnow Yes! Not looking me in the eye is something that DS1 (4.11) REALLY struggles with and this morning was the cause of a major blowout by me :(

It all started during the morning routine. Since DS1 started school, I have given clear countdowns as to when playtime was over and I expect the boys to get dressed. This morning was no exception. Five minutes after I'd told him that I wanted him to take his pyjamas off, he was clowning around on the bed play-fighting with his brother (probably my biggest bugbear). I asked them calmly to stop but they carried on. When I went to physically (but gently) remove them from one another, DS1 told me that DS2 had been hitting him and that he was (I'm paraphrasing here) the innocent party. I then got down to his level to try and look him in the eye to tell him that whenever ANYONE hurts him, he's to move himself away. If he's lying there taking a beating, what does he expect?! He then turned all "Kevin and Perry" on me: back slouched, arms drooping to the floor, eyes rolling in the back of his head (or even closed), mouth wide open - you must know what I mean. So then I just saw red. I tried to stand him up straight and demand that he look at me (holding on to his arms), but the angrier I got, the worse he behaved until I ended up yelling at him. He burst into tears and told me that I was scaring him and that he didn't love me. :( But rather than standing back from the situation and calming down, I was so cross that I was wasting valuable time trying to have a serious conversation but just being ignored. I continued to be angry and then demanded he got dressed. Which, of course, due to the fraught conversation we'd just had was never going to happen. Cue DS1 throwing himself on the floor, and me getting angrier and more impatient to the point where I ended up just pulling his pyjamas off him and yelling even more. Even when I was doing it I knew I was completely out of order and overreacting but I just couldn't help myself. It's like I'm out of body and can see this stupid, irate fishwife going at a helpless and frightened child, but even then I just can't stop.

As usual, I felt dreadful afterwards and apologised (in tears) to DS1. I could just tell though that I'd really upset him this time and that he hadn't forgiven me. We were back on "ok" terms, kissing and cuddling, but I could just tell all wasn't "right".

Tonight (after another battle over tea) I was chatting to him asking him about his favourite/worst/happiest/saddest part of the day (we do this everyday). When I asked what was the best part of his day, he replied "Nothing! You spoiled it". :(

I'm a terrible mother. In theory, I know exactly what I want to do and how I want to be as a mother, but putting it into practice is another thing entirely.

WHY do I keep getting it so wrong?! Can I blame tiredness at 8am when I'm (generally) a morning person???