Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

Ah monkey hope your morning is going ok here, have a cuppa there isn't an emoticon for shortbread so this will have to do I've just made some. I love my Friday's off
dreaming (unsolicited advice warning!!!!!!) I'd go for the local school.
Reasons:
you'll have three DCs at this place and you are committing yourself to a twice daily drive for how many years?
If there are after school clubs there will be even more commuting /hanging around if one is in the club and another isn't. I live near a primary and the cars start to gather outside it about an hour before home time (don't these people have things to do???) which I imagine is how early they feel they have to get there to avoid the traffic....and get a space.
With the local school it will be easier to share pick ups with other local parents in emergencies.
The children will, after a few years, be able to take themselves to and bring themselves home from the local school.
School trips that start and end at the school are easier to meet if you aren't far away. ( they are invariably either late or early back) plus the reasons you have already identified about DD being with her local friends.

However, you must have good reasons for choosing a different one and I've not read your other thread. If you find yourself, as you read my reasons, thinking of readily available counter-arguments to them, that might help you to know what in your heart of hearts you feel is best for your DD and really want to do.
Not an easy decision, good luck, what will be will be.

Well I've had a totally shitty morning. Tired as dt2 was croupy the night before this so up a lot and in with me to keep him close and check his breathing. Then this morning dd got up at 5:45. Urgh. Got her back into her own bed at 6 and told her to lie quietly for a little bit (she normally gets up after 7) and dt1 got up so I abandoned all hope. And I was so grumpy, properly shouted at them all at breakfast time when dt1 was being histrionic and dt2 wouldn't eat anything or get off my knee and we were going to be late for preschool. Of course we were.... I just wish I'd stopped to take those breaths first ARGH!!!!

Anyway, wise words letsgo thanks for the advice. clearly I'm after advice or I wouldn't have posted in Education My big worry for the local school is class size. They take 35. There are 41 at preschool. I hear 2 aren't applying. That leaves 39 we expect to apply. The school always always accept their 35 then let in up to 39 on appeal. Split for KS1 and all together for KS2. Sounds bonkers to me plus my September born DD will lose her September advantage as she and the other oldest 9 or do go into a mostly year 1 class. The other school has a 15 per year intake. Nicer Reception class and area and a lovely feel to it but obviously the 2 mile drive and lack of local friends. Plus all 3 will be in the same class every other year as it's mixed year teaching. So confused. I may be willing to go for the local one but dh is adamant he thinks a class of over 35 is nuts. Another ARGH!!!

forgotten other posts. I'll be back!

Oh yes, anothermonkey, hope you've had a bit of peace to reboot. Being ill is even worse than tired for keeping my temper in my house. And yes, what you say is so true. If my dh is being stressy I can mop.it up for a bit then it all explodes...

Thanks for the biscuit, letsgo!! Your Fridays sound so civilised :)

Today's been tough but we made it. I hate winter bugs.

dreaming I feel your pain on the school decision. If you went with the further away option, would the dts go the too?

Despite my civilised Friday I am feeling a bit overwhelmed by pre Christmas stuff. I think I'm hard wired to feel like this. Had a tearful melt down at DH this morning. I'm quite organised and didn't think I'd taken on too much but it just all got to me.

Anyway it occurred to me I'm probably not the only one feeling like this so thought I'd pop on and say to anyone else who knows that "I've got so many things to do and can't think straight and while I'm in this state I'm not doing anything helpful and where is my list and which list am I working from today and why is he playing on his phone when there is so much to do and why do I still have to do bloody everything????????" Feeling

anothermonkey yes, they'd all go.to the further away one. I'm suddenly realising that while I'm a sahm (though dh insists I should look for work once dts at school) I could do all those things I imagined I would when I had children; go in and hear children read , go to any assemblies etc parents can attend and all of that will involve driving to school 2. A few mums on the thread I started in primary education have strongly advised against choosing the school which sees all of mine in the same class though. I don't know. I need to choose fast before I drive myself more nuts.

letsgo huge sympathies on the Christmas front. I am having having a minor panic but it's easy for me; we escape to my mums for Christmas. In fact, from the Tuesday to the Saturday the dc and I will be there. So its only presents to worry about, and wrapping. I still have one person to buy for and have too much stuff for DD which I am constantly trying to work out what to give and what not in my head. I would be in a huge flap if I were cooking for the family/extended family too. I have spent today trying to make a halo. DH has criticised my design. After a terrible night (dt2 and dd woke at 9, back asleep by 11 for dt2, 11:30 in my bed for dd, dt1 up 1:30-4, dd up for a poo at 5:15,dt2 wailed so loudly he roused the house at 6 am. yawn ) DH in mortal danger if he doesn't shut up about the fecking halo and Dt1 is being obnoxious. I know that's a ton. awful thing to say but he really is being horrible. Really struggling to keep my cool. He screamed like a banshee while dd and I glittered some Christmas cards (2 in fact, we are getting nowhere on making our own cards this year). and actually just ARGH, today can fuck right off.

dreaming actually sod the , here lets get started on this mulled I think. And have a home made mince pie. (You make cards, with glitter you get queen of Christmas prize today )
I'll put my wonky halo on (I wouldn't even know where to start, he'd be wearing it somewhere very unsunny if I was getting "advice" on such a task...) and we can both get tiddly on the
Out to Christmas concert 3 of 5 later, good will to all men and all that.

Oof, pass the please, letsgo

An incredibly draining day here. DS1 seems to have been in a temper for a lot of it, resulting in everyone else being in a temper too, and the day nearly being ruined. Fortunately, they did manage to get the tree up despite everything, and to enjoy decorating it together (I was out).

Well. We survived is all I can say for today. Dt2 had croup on Wednesday night. Ended up with steroids at 2am. Now all 3 have this high temp, hacking cough lurgy and one or other or all 3 have cried all day. I'm sadly not exaggerating. I was nearly driven to actually give up and just sob with them. This is despite an indecent amount of TV. And calpol. I am feeling a bit teary and exhausted, expecially knowing there'll be a similar night in store as they're all so hot and hacking their guts up.

With the bad weather and illness we have made air drying clay glitter painted Christmas tree decorations, lolly pop stick and shiny bits stuck on Christmas trees and had the blasted and much hated glitter out. I do these things in an attempt to stop at least one of them from being in the fray of the fighting which is days in without activities. I am monumentally fed up and actually wishing I had a job to go to on Monday (very rare for me). I don't know why I tired it today, to pretend it wasn't as bad as it seemed? well, didn't work, it still was.
Yes. Pass the and make it a huge generous one.

Here's to the goodwill of the concert dissipating some of your Christmas stress letsgo. I can't imagine you in a flap. You sound very organised and capable on here and I imagined you'd be whipping up Christmas without batting an eyelid. This just proves that I have 200% done the right thing by shipping us off to my mums. I'd never manage it. That sounds a bit flippant. I do have a lot of empathy as it's an awful feeling being a bit overwhelmed. Hope all the lists are ticked off imminently and all dc and dh become super helpful.

letsgo there must be something in the air - my MIL, who has hosted christmas for 2 generations now, is going to my BILs this year but couldn't sleep at 2am last night worrying about Christmas preparations. I know that feeling of 'why does it all have to be me'. And actually, it's not, but the majority of it is, and on top of the day to day madness it does all feel overwhelming sometimes. I'm another one who feels certain that you'll do a brilliant job, though and

dreaming only a crazy person criticises frantic nativity costume design: LTB I've been trying to decide what I'd do in your position re schools and it's making my head spin too. Is the decision actually in your hands - aren't numbers tight for the school with small class sizes? And if not, why not? Are you in catchment? Good luck tonight.

for everyone!

crisis are you still around? How are things?

blue for you
Hope everyone has had a good Sunday. dreaming I really hope you (or rather your poor poorly children) had a better night. (Enabling you to have a better night....) will Monday bring some respite? Mother and toddler group? Pre school or a friend/ grandparent able to help? I hope they are well enough to get out of the house if nothing else. Stay sane as best you can.
I'm tremendously (out of all proportion) pleased that you think I'm "organised and capable" . I try to be because I need to be methodical or the panic sets in.

I'm also not really "doing" Christmas because we will be sleeping at home but spending days with my FIL and an assortment of relatives over the holiday. However we (SIL, my DM and me) are taking on the catering so that all my elderly FIL has to do is offer people G&T, so I'm sort of coordinating that. We are not a "picky" family and everyone will muck in.

Plus DD3 has a birthday so that is four 13 year olds for a birthday lunch next Saturday, DD1 is coming home also that weekend with newish BF and the spare room is still a store room after the recent decorating. (Poor girl lost her bedroom when she moved away last time!)
I only have the bank holidays off and they fall on my usual days off so no extra time off work.
So none of it is too challenging but there seem a lot of separate bits to sort. Plus of course present wrapping card writing etc. and the laundry. Always the bloody laundry. Today has been much better, lamb hot pot in the slow cooker and I've been to the gym. Christmas concert No 4 later tonight.
The concert last night was very good and we all enjoyed it, even DD2 who has sat through many events in which her talented little sister is performing and is inclined to say "do I have to go?" Increasingly wearily as the moment approaches . They played the best version of jingle bells I have ever heard
We are lucky here with music provision for children.

Cheers letsgo

Survived the day but only just. This is such a tiring time of year.

Still struggling with mornings :( Any advice? The bits I can't cope with are being ignored

"OK lovely cuddle, now it's time to get out of my bed and get dressed so I can get dressed"

"DS I said it's time to go and get dressed"

"GET OUT!!!"

(exploding point) "NOW IT'S FOUR MINUTES PAST WHEN WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT, WHY DO YOU NOT CARE ABOUT THIS, WE'RE GOING TO BE LATE."

Aaaargh. What are you supposed to do?! I try taking stuff off him for later but he just responds with "Don't care. Wasn't going to play/do that anyway." and it doesn't make a difference, since he doesn't have to face the consequence until five hours later. I know I should stay calm and not explode, but stay calm and do WHAT? If I ignore him, he takes longer. He has plenty of time to do all of this stuff in but however long he has he stretches out until it's all gone.

Only one week until Christmas holidays

I am at my wits end
is this thread still going or has it turned zombie testing testing

No still here :)

Those things would (and regularly do) drive me up the wall too, Bertie.

Sometimes trying to beat a timer can inspire a rapid turn of speed in the morning, although not always.

Bertie, massively frustrating behaviour. No wonder you get .

Have you tried focusing on something nice/ fun/ interesting that will happen After the task. Eg: (briskly) clothes time now, we will have blueberry pancakes for breakfast once trousers and jumpers are on. I'm hungry, are you? And carry on getting ready yourself, doing your very best at ignoring any whiny messing around and instantly descriptively praising any "getting dressed" behaviour.

For the getting shoes and coat on one how about a "silly choice"? Should we wear high heels or wellies today to school? (Working on the basis that if he is entertained by the prospect of wearing high heels to school it might distract him from entertaining himself by baiting you to fury) or again the suggestion of something fun once out of the house ( the ultimate destination being the focus rather than the shoes) "I wonder if we will see that funny coloured cat /steam train/ dog with three legs on the way to school today?" Without even saying he needs to put shoes on. If he is credited with having the knowledge to work out for himself that without shoes on there will be no going outside to see the dog with the missing leg, he might also feel clever. (Intrinsically rewarding).
Good luck. Teatime here so no time for big thoughts I've got to go and get gourmet delights (three baked potatoes done in the microwave) onto the table

Bertie I sympathise, DS would spend the whole day in his pjs if we let him. I agree that distraction and as little emotional response as possible is the way forwards but mornings are my nemesis, I don't always practice what I preach.

I've been reading siblings without rivalry this week and it's been really helpful with my two. My favourite piece of advice:
"Low Level Bickering: Ignore it. Think about your next vacation"

Although I don't actually think about my next vacation, which would only serve to remind me of an extended and imminent period of time during which there is literally no escape from the bickering and possibly send me over the edge once and for all

I have to admit though that things are a lot better here on the whole. It's almost a year now since the original thread started and we're in a very different place.

You OK, igletpiglet?

See, I'm rubbish at ignoring stuff like that! (the bickering, I mean)...

We sometimes use Mister Maker's minute make tune for getting things done fast too, now I come to think of it.

Ooh, there IS sometimes a cat who we see on the way, that might be a useful "I wonder if we'll see that today?" kind of thing. I like the idea of shifting the focus. It's always the last thing which gets dragged out so not much to look forward to or hurry up for.

Had a "shower incident" tonight. DS has always been hysterical about getting water on him but has decided he prefers showers to baths. All good, we prefer that too, except that he still cries and moans for a good 20 minutes about the idea of getting in there. So DH made him a whiteboard with different tasks he has to tick off each day. For having a shower he can tick off three days. He knows it's coming. He can see he has to do it every 3 days. It happens regularly, but not too regularly. Anyway, every third day the same argument. It was worse than usual today - took an hour for the shower to happen in its entirety. Lots of dramatic sobbing, flinching and whining that he has to do "so much stuff" and walking around naked shivering but ignoring suggestions that the shower would be warmer than the air. I went out to post a letter halfway through because I can't take it. When I got back DS is singing away quite happily in the shower. He got out and asked what he can have for bedtime (he's allowed to watch TV on the laptop presuming he hasn't lost it for bad behaviour or taking too long). DH said no, you get nothing, you spent too long whining about going in the shower and you screamed in my face.

I thought this was mean. So DS came in sobbing to me. I backed up DH obviously, dried him a bit, he was standing there shivering rather than trying to hold the towel around himself and so I sent him off to get changed. DH came in and admitted that he was so frustrated with DS during the shower when he was trying to reassure him that he was tempted (though he would never do this) to push him backwards under the water suddenly. I commiserated with those feelings of frustration, but I said I still thought he was mean to ban the bedtime TV since DS had already missed out on extra playtime after his shower by taking so long to decide to get in it, and that screaming in his face wasn't really naughtiness but panic. So we ended up having a long talk about it and ended up feeling OK, that we're on the same page. We're both baffled as to WHY he is so scared of showers, there have been no traumatic incidents, he does it all the time, once he's in there he's absolutely fine etc. DH started by saying he couldn't work out if the reluctance is DS putting it on. I said I'm not sure just because I don't think it's possible to fake those hysterics. He seems really genuinely scared, but we're both frustrated, because much as we are very willing to help him work through his fear - I've been working on this with him for five years now! It's very hard to work through something when there is absolutely no change in the response at all. Granted he's better as in he will actually wash his hair now. But not without hours of histrionics and drama, and it has taken years to get to this point. And I doubt he would tolerate having his hair washed in the bath any more because it's been a few months. It's not normal, you know? I mean yes no child likes having their hair washed but he's not even gritting his teeth and bearing it, he would not let you do it at all.

I do think that he is perhaps a bit sensory defensive, but it doesn't fit 100%. Anyway, DH reckons we should wait until he starts school and if the issues are still there 6-12 months in to look for some kind of referral/psychologist to work out if there's actually something we're missing and should be working with in a different way.

Oh, and bedtime was actually nice and calm after he got over the fact he had no laptop, he played with some toys and then gave me a nice kiss and cuddle and apparently said to DH that he's decided if he messes around less with the shower he can be done in 3 minutes and have lots of time to play. So it did seem to work, but we'll see. It's whether it continues to work and seems fair that's the issue!

Mornings, I have a new timescale plan for. So we will see how that goes in the morning! And on that note I should go to bed, I'm very very late.

bertie that sounds tough. Does your DS go swimming? What does he make of water in other contexts?

DS gets hysterical about things he is scared of. They're pretty random, I've mentioned before that his bedroom light is one of them.

The only way to stop full on escalation is for me to validate the fact that he feels scared and I often tell little stories about the things which I and his auntie used to find scary and how we dealt with them. He finds that funny and often mentions the stories at other times. And I try like mad to show absolutely no impatience. At bedtime I've shown him what I used to do if I felt scared in bed and if he's not happy, I'll tell him that I'll be back to check on him when I've [insert v small task]. As it's usually worse if he's really tired, and I'm in his room with him for 15 mins or so for story and winding down/settling in bed, he's usually asleep when I get back. Last night I had to go back once more just to check before he was asleep.

Have you got any idea exactly what bothers your DS in the bath? If you could validate that and find a solution; or get some bath bombs or bath crayons or bubbles and one of you get in with him for a few days to distract? Sometimes just feeling 'heard' works for DS when it's a fear thing, though it's not always that simple!

He's fine in the bath, but not getting water on his face, so no hair washing in the bath. It doesn't matter if we use one of those magic buckets or anything to protect his face, he won't hold a flannel over his face or wear swimming goggles, they won't do. Literally one drop right back on his cheek and he is hysterical. In the shower he has to have a "safety towel" hung up for him to grab and immediately wipe away any water. Swimming we went more in the summer and haven't been since, actually, but he again takes a while to actually get into the water, won't go out of his depth despite wearing arm bands, gets really hysterical if anybody splashes him, and won't go near anything like slides or fountains in case they splash him.

So, we do validate that it's scary and offer him ways to reduce the scary feeling but it's not helping :/