Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

Thanks everyone for your encouraging words!

It's so good to hear others saying they 'get it' and have the same frustrations and worries. Actually I'd go as far as to say it dissolves some of the terror I feel about raising totally ruined children. My reasoning being that if everyone struggles like this then it means some of the people who walk around functioning relatively normally were also raised by parents who sometimes felt like they lost the plot. Hooray, there is hope!

dreaming Tummy bugs SUCK. Hope it's short lived. TV is definitely your friend on a day like that!

One of this mornings toddler tantrums started like this: "would you like to have some porridge with me for breakfast?" "Ooh yes, I want it now" "Ok, but I just need to cook it first. It'll be just a couple of minutes" "But I want it NOWWWWWW WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH". Oh boy, it's gonna be a looong day lol!

Hehe 6am this morning in our household...

Me: Would you like some nutty butter toast DD?

DD: Yeees but I want the RED PLAAAAATE....

Me: That's fine! Do you want to fetch it from the cupboard?

DD: Alright mummy. I want honey please.

Me: Are you sure? I'm going to have nutty butter.

DD: I WAAANT HONNNNEEEEYYYYYYY......

Me: That's fine, just checking. Definitely honey then?

DD: Yes mummy.

Me:

I tend to go with the first choice, and say "yes, I know it's frustrating when you don't know what you want". Doesn't necessarily decrease the screaming, but makes me feel calmer!

We've started hiding the Weetabix box as if he sees that after having chosen something else he has a meltdown. I need to hide the peanut butter (known as "clean butter") too for the same reason.

I'm having medicinal cheese and biscuits and a cup of tea.
Three cheers for emotional eating.
One of my children expresses her dissatisfaction with life by shouting. I've just curtailed short her list of shouty grievances with a "I'm not going to listen to all this again" (she was on round 2 )
The other goes into a depressive nihilist adolescent state "what's the point of anything? We're all going to die" but simultaneously and spontaneously snaps out of it with jokes about luminescent poo ( by anything she specifically means physics homework) and has sloped off with her chin on her chest because I calmly made her complete a simple task after coming back from scouts that I asked her to do 5 hours ago ( pre scouts) which she had totally not done. (Putting ingredients in the bread maker and setting it so that we have bread for the morning)
I'm going to have another biscuit now .....
Drspouse. I'd have a meltdown if someone hid my weetabix
Monkey "but I wanted the reeeed plaaatttte" been there done that got the t shirt and matching bag. I hope your day got better and the coffee was sufficiently effective
Edge gently but firmly away from all that favourite cup / plate stuff is my advice. That way madness lies. Not having the colour plate you want is an early and relatively painless way to learn that the world does not always present you with exactly what you want

MoreSnow that sounds a lot like my house! Baby is nearly 8 months. After being a reasonably loving big brother, my 2.5yo is becoming a proper pain in the backside with the way he behaves towards her.

We've had a few biting incidents (one that left a horrible bruise with teeth marks on her thigh and made me want to cry), but mostly it's pushing over and hard squeezing of arms and legs. I'm undecided as to whether it's jealousy per se, or just exploring and testing the boundaries of their relationship.

He knows when he's done something like that is obviously unkind. If I see something happen, rather than say 'you did x,y,z you naughty boy', I now try to ask 'what just happened there?'. He often replies with 'I just hit/bit my sister'. I ask him if it a kind thing to do and how he thinks she might feel (sad, sore, etc). I get all the right answers and then he normally voluntarily apologises and gives her a cuddle and a kiss.

My problem is responding like that all of the time. Among other bad reactions I certainly have lost my patience and done the snatching the baby away and screaming 'HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT' thing. I tend to get shouted back at!

Have you and DH had a chat about how you'd like to deal with this sort of thing? We do regularly but have had to accept that whilst we agree in theory, either one of us has a low threshold for getting wound up and saying the wrong thing/making a threat that you don't want to follow through on.

One things I've found that helps is making some time for them to develop their own relationship. At 4 months that might just be sitting together and helping DS1 make the baby laugh with tickles and raspberries. If he can see the baby as something he can enjoy then he might be less inclined to see him as a threat.

It is hard though. I felt slightly conned by all the people that said it gets easier once you're out of the newborn stage!

jess and moresnow I'd find biting the baby really hard to deal with calmly, well done for managing to (even if only sometimes!)
I don't know what to suggest but one thing we did when I was expecting DD3 was to put together a tiny photo album for DD2 which began with pics of DD1 as a baby then moved on to show her as bigger, a toddler, a big girl then DD2 as a baby with DD1 etc etc and a space for the baby to have a few pictures when it arrived. It helps them see that they were little like that once. It's a long shot but might just identify the baby as a future playmate rather than something noisy and pleasantly squishy to sink teeth into.
Good luck, hope everyone is ok.

I've just finished my third read through of "Spirited CHild" and hoping to get DH to read it too. It really does tick a lot of boxes for both boys, but DS1 especially, and also for me. I'm glad it's working for you, MoreSnow. Gives hope!

I find stepping back from a situation really hard. Like today, I was trying to separate the boys from fighting, was talking to DS2, DS1 stuck his fingers in his ears and started mouthing like "la la la". I just couldn't detach and react calmly or rationally. And he (apparently) couldn't see why it was rude or upsetting, especially as I wasn't even talking to him!!

Ohhh blue that would have done it for me too, for sure. Your post and yours too, snow have reminded me how much I want to read the Spirited Child book. I've just finished How To Talk again, so useful. I might download the Spirited Child book next as I have a feeling it may help with both DCs in different ways, but certainly DS.

Babies are pleasantly squishy to sink teeth into, no question I had a younger sibling and say this with some authority. I haven't bitten them for years now, if it's any consolation

DD has started properly telling DS off now, it's absolute comedy. If I dare to smile though I end up in trouble too because it is very serious mummy.

All is a bit calmer again here at the moment, relatively speaking! Hope everyone's had a good day.

I've started reading Calmer, Happier, Easier, it is kind of what we do only better worked out and it HAS worked for keeping shoes on in the car (a recent battle). But a long way to go on other things.
DH says he'll read it if we get it on kindle! Yay!

Sorry, I'm reading but no time to post. just received my copy of the 'buttons' book and you're all talking of reading more?!

How do you all find time to read?! Are they long books?

Today my two little monkeys (2.5 and 8months) sat under the laundry drier and pulled ALL the clothes off, whilst giggling together. I was torn - definitely something I'd normally say comes in the 'don't do that please' category, but they were playing so nicely together!

So why were they playing nicely? The only thing different about today is that I've lost my voice. As in TOTALLY gone. I thought it would mean chaos but it actual fact it just means no shouting! I can't even say something with a low tone to get my disapproval across; I have to wait until screaming has stopped and I am being listened to, then say what I want in breathy whisper.

Scarily eye-opening that it has made such a difference. Rather ashamed at how often I must be just barking orders/criticisms (I knew it wasn't great, but still...).

How do you all find time to read?

I read in the bath, and for about 30 seconds afterwards in bed before I fall asleep. Other than that, even when DS is at nursery and DD is napping, I usually find there are lots of other things that need doing, I agree!

jessbags , your posts really resonate with me. I'd be just the same. "no, don't take the clothes off there" etc etc. While at the back of my mind thinking, oh just let them- but the other voice saying, then they'll destroy something else while you re-hang the sodding washing- and that voive would probabky win out. Unfortunately even if left to it though it usually dissolves into physical violence. Tomorrow I will not shout (she pledges, yet again...)

I'm being pushed to the limit by my 4y 2m old DD. Rudeness. Shouting at me. Demanding treats (to eat) every day. I give her too many anyway. Spitting and pushing her brothers and even spitting in my dads face (and she can't do a proper hock and spit, but huge raspberries bloeing spit all over your face so same difference). Mostly when she is cross and frustrated. I could ask her to go and spit in the basin, do an angry picture or jump up and down instead. I find it hard though as it's so instant. The spitting at my dad, she was very tired, she had been doing the first bit of a 'paint your own tea set' with me and had moved onto the decorating it once first layer dried with my dad while I got tea ready. 2 warnings of count down to finishing, it's nearly tea etc- when asked to finsih and put her brush down it was 'no, NO, I'm not finished huge raspberry in long suffering grandpa's face' ARGH. So frustrating. I don't know what to do.

I also had an epiphany that even the 'good' days I think have gone well when I go back and analyse all my interctions with them and reactions it's poor- very poor sometimes. In primary school we once did this mosaic picture, so you had to colour each little square individually to make up the picture so when you looked at it, it seemed almost tiled, like a proper mosaic. I remember thinking mine was great, and telling other children sitting around me they were doing theirs wrong. Until the teacher rather bluntly pointed out mine was totally wrong and I'd coloured some whole sections not just the little squares- so mine was so not going to look like a mosaic. I was ashamed (both of my mistake and being smug with my classmates telling them they'd done it wrong) and gutted. I still remember that lesson and that feeling. And now i've got that feeling again- except over parenting, which is a little more important than some flipping primary school year 6 picture. I really am not doing such a great job and I'm gutted.

My children are constantly being violent with each other and DD's rudeness is driving me round the twist. Sometimes there are little snatches where they cooperate and work together beautifully, and I'm incredibly proud of how they are toghter, but mostly at the minute I despair. I am quite anti-screen time but I've been using more tv to keep the peace. Amd DD is not a watch then go and play then watch girl- she jusr sits glued to it, for as long as allowed. DT2 following in her footsteps an I'm DT1 would if he were just a little less hyper.

And I have not followed bertie's very sound advice of leaving the gentle parenting group on fb to save myself the guilt over it not all working with me and mine and am feeling bad about that too- not leaving, and being upset by some things I read where someone doing something similarly to how I would is heavily criticised. FFS!!!!

So, epic wail over.

jessbags my strategy is generally to not actually finish any of them

I have really noticed too that the less I say the better!

DS is increasingly scared of everything at the moment. I asked him get his pyjamas this evening; they were on his pillow which was about two metres from where I was drying DD after her bath. Tbh, I thought he was messing around as he is the king of request avoidance, so I insisted that he fetch them and he did but then sobbed and sobbed, he cried so much he set DD off :( He'd never go upstairs by himself to fetch something and an ongoing issue is that he's scared of the light in his bedroom, although I don't understand why. We've changed the fitting once already and he can't explain it. Has anyone else had similar? I guess he's at the age where imagination really kicks in.

dreaming I would bet good money that you are doing a far better job than you think.

My approach to the raspberry this week, having read parts of How To Talk again, would be along the lines of 'I understand that it must be tough to stop painting when you're having so much fun/it's going so well. But we don't blow raspberries in people's faces. Let's take this tissue to Grandpa then we'll clear away. [insert descriptive praise here]

There's no question that parenting has thrown up all kinds of old issues and feelings for me. It's quite startling, actually. I think that's why the buttons book has helped so much.

Need to post as battery about to die! Be kind to yourself xx

We are having a very bad afternoon. I have lost it repeatedly with DS1, who is being impossible. I feel drained and exhausted. I dread to think how he feels.

I just don't know how to help him. When he's in a temper, it's not a teachable moment. But I don't know what is a teachable moment. When he's not in a temper, he won't engage with how he feels when he is, because that makes him feel all the emotions again. We think he's introverted and needs space, but we can't work out how to convey that to him. We think he gets a sensory overload, , but we can't work out how to convey that to him. We think he gets overwhelmed and can't work out which is the important thing to focus on at any given moment, but... And so on. He's doing fine at school, which suggests that he uses so much energy coping there that he melts down at home where it's safe. But ye gods, it's exhausting. And in moments like this, I'm sure that I'm screwing him up, no matter what my rational brain tells me. Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggghhhhhh!!!

((blue)) big support vibes coming across to you. I hope you managed to find at least a little time to wind down in the evening, days like that are just horrible x

Seconded. Blue that sounds tough. Having bad half hour here too with nearly 13 year old. Completely failing to follow my own advice and just yelling back.
Calm has descended temporarily. Hmmmmm.

Thanks. Today has been better (mostly). The weather didn't help yesterday as it was hammering down with rain all day, and the boys had been out at a party getting hyped up and full of sugar...

We had another hideous row over tidying up though. There has to be a better way, but I'm blowed if I know what it is.

Hi, sorry - am going to post and run but wanted some advice on how to deal with DS (4) when he has friends over and does not want to share any of his toys. And it is not that he wants to hand over what he is playing with, but rather that if the other child picks something up, DS instantly wants it. And this happens ad infinitum . Tbh it feels to me like the behaviour of a much younger child, and it makes me not want to invite any friends over, but not sure that is the best solution! He is not like that when he goes to friends' houses.

Thanks!

It's my turn to just raaaaaaaaargh today.

Hormones again. I bloody hate PMT. I'm uptight, anxious, clumsy, fuzzy headed, I may as well wear a neon flashing badge it's so damn obvious. And I irritate myself beyond belief.

And everything always seems to happen at this time. DS had an incident at school today, behaviour was v v poor and on the edge of tipping over into meltdown as a result, DH out tonight with DS's comfort toy in his car and neither DS or DD settling like they usually do for bed. ping

An excellent start to this month's insane week.

mrpop I read somewhere that one strategy is to talk to your DC about the visit beforehand, explaining that when our friends come to play we let them share our toys, but letting them identify any special toys which they don't want to share and putting them away in a safe place until after the visit.

How is everyone getting on? blue have things been any better today?

Me, it's been a bit crap. Well, quite a lot crap. I continue to struggle to control the Jekyll and Hyde behaviour of zenand rational and calm to screaming banshee. I've got really bloody painful mouth ulcers so eating hurts (eaving me a bit hungry often- and I don't do hungry well, but it truly is agony to eat) and a sore throat and I'm not sleeping well. This has left me super irritable and tired and grumpy and awful
I continue to struggle with DD being violent to the DTS and one of the dts never listening and also being violent. DT2, please don't swing that (wooden) frying pan at your sister. You may hit the sofa or beanbag with it but not your sister. ARGH!

blue I never seem to find teaching moments either. And the few good moments we have- and they really are few atm- we are busy and the general intervening/stopping violence/getting out the house has left little time for quiet moments and then if tsomething is going well I really don't want to spoil it by stirring up unpleasant situations again. I don't seem to have the strength for it.

Without a comfort toy I wouldn't get one of mine to bed at all. It would send me over the edge hormonal or not another, deep sympathies.

And mrpop I second what another has sais. Plus I try the 'how to talk' thing of saying 'oh dear, there's a problem. Your friend wants a toy to play with and you don't want him to play with it. What could we do?' and getting him to solve it. This sometimes works for me. On th eother hand, sometimes DT2 laughs manically and says 'MINE, my do nothing else' Great...

Today has been mostly better, thanks. I really feel that I need some kind of RL support for DS1 and I don't know how to get it. I'm going to have to look into options for what's available.

Dreaming - ((hugs)) Mouth ulcers are the worst. Have you tried gargling salt water? Usually works, a bit at least, for me. Your DTS's response made me grin (sorry if that wasn't the desired response!) as it sounds just like DS1 at a similar age. His catchphrase was "Mine share!"

Monkey - ((hugs)) too.