Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

Thanks, I think some of that could work. Someone suggested paper to tear up too, which could work as it isn't hitting but it seems to be a natural outlet for him anyway.
He's just sitting on the potty doing a poo and DD (6 mo) is angling for a feed so in haste!

Sorry, with the counting - he didn't hit/throw things in order to sit on our laps and count, he just got on/sat down randomly and counted.

Oh dear - I am physically and mentally drained.

We walked into town with DD in the buggy and our new buggy board. I am following a policy of regular exercise and fresh air like a puppy, and we have a routine of going to a dancing class on a Monday morning. It took us an hour to get out of the house (though that was mainly taken up with DS doing a poo on the potty and actually being quite good about it, but there was an incident of hitting DD with a teddy who had to be put in time out) and then the class was sadly cancelled so we went to the library where there was a nice man telling stories.

DS was very good actually and sat through about 20-30 minutes of stories while I fed DD (who would probably have had a feed before we left the house if she had her choice but I couldn't really feed her while DS was on and off the potty, and the remaining delay was taken up with trying to get her/him ready with coats etc.).

We briefly popped into another couple of shops and all seemed well with DS riding on the new buggy board but when we were about 300m from home he had a lie down strike and refused to walk or ride any further. Usually what happens at this point is that he lies down for a minute or so, I ignore him, we carry on, or I pull him up to standing and offer to hold his hand and help him along a bit. Before we had DD if he was walking I would pick him up after I got bored of waiting for him to get up (though usually he would have got up anyway) (or if one of us goes out with him without her we do that/give him a piggy back).

But he refused to move and when I pulled him up and held his hand he just lay down screaming.

As DD was by this time also starting to get hungry I had to basically drag him along by the arm for a couple of 100m to the corner of our road, someone offered to push the buggy after that to our house which was very kind but I still had to drag him, this time by both arms so he was kind of walking but not really, because every time I tried to pick him up he kicked and hit me.

He sat outside sulking for about 10 minutes and I was inside in tears, unable to do anything with DD anyway. He complained afterwards that his arms hurt, which isn't surprising as mine do too.

He's now asleep and has been for nearly 3 hours! And I just want to hide from my children and cry.

Oh dear drspouse that does sound tough. No advice really, but and .

Awkward on the way home today - talking to DS1 and we realised that he/we had forgotten various things, and he started calling himself stupid. Every time I said he wasn't stupid, he got crosser and insisted that he was. Not sure how I should have reacted to stop him putting himself down without making the situation worse.

Hi blue. I read in one book (cassandra jardine 'how to be a better parent' I think) that if they put themselves down and you say "no you are not stupid/ ugly/ whatever" it doesn't work because at that moment they feel that they are stupid etc. and that is one problem. And their mum is directly telling them their true genuine feeling is "wrong" or "not true". That becomes a second problem. The way they suggested to respond more helpfully was I think to reflect their feelings without agreeing. And including a "temporary" element. Eg: "so, forgetting your book today has made you feel foolish. You would have liked to remember it." Descriptive praise works here rather than evaluative, I'm too tired to go into it now but evaluative. "You are clever" leaves no where to go on days when they are not 'being clever'. Descriptive finds positive morsels to give them, even when the main event has turned to shit.
Hope that makes sense.
Welcome Drspouse.
Sounds like he was knackered. Nothing to add to Bertie's brilliant advice and insights. (She has been there clearly....)

Thanks letsgo - that makes sense. :)

Hi everyone.

DrSpouse welcome, it sounds like a tough day! More and for you, hoping today was better. It made my stress levels rise just reading it!

Blue DS uses 'stupid' a lot and, annoyingly, DD has started copying him. In DS's case, it is usually me/DH/DD who is stupid, but reading letsgo's advice, I'm thinking that the same empathetic approach could work well over here ("you think what I said was unfair" etc) instead of telling him off for using the word.

DD just likes the fact that she's saying something a bit radical

I'm finding that working through the Buttons book has helped me to take a step back and things are much better here again at the moment. The main bits of useful advice I've applied so far when I can feel my patience begin to dissolve:

a) Understanding that we all have a valid agenda. Identify my own agenda (I would rather DS didn't turn up to school in his pyjamas and would like to be something resembling on time) and also work out theirs (DS hates getting dressed and seems to find it insurmountable). Find a solution which takes both agendas into account (be friendly and calm and if he's really not getting anywhere, just help him into his clothes).

b) Identifying the root of the emotions (in the example above, I worry that DS should be dressing himself, that he'll never learn to do things like buttons and zips and pulling his trousers up properly because he just doesn't care about stuff like that. I can then see that I'm catastrophising, and address any actual issues).

b) Remembering that I can tell them I love them a million times a day, but if my usual responses resemble irritation/annoyance/a need for my own space, rather than joy to be with them, they'll never really believe it. I am making a really big effort to show them that joy because they truly are amazing.

c) Also remembering that their behaviour is not a reflection on me, but the way that I deal with it is. The book talks about inner dialogue (and catastrophising...) and this is a big thing for me, too.

bullet point fail!

2b or not 2b

moresnow I know just what you mean. The sleep thing is a killer for me, but now that we're coming out of Baby Boot Camp (DD is 2.5) I feel that I've been so busy wishing time away that I'm going to kick myself when I'm old and sitting alone watching some crap on daytime TV and wishing I could go back to the days of mess and fun and cuddles and little eyes gazing at me. I HAVE to stop taking that stuff for granted before it's too late.

Well, yesterday was also pretty awful but he was at nursery so it wasn't me dealing with it (and he didn't nap there). I gave him a filling favourite tea, no bath, and in bed with the minimum of delay (but the maximum of fuss and a further time out behind the stair gate in his room, with me right there - I am beginning to think this may be the right degree of separation as I can talk to him, he can see me and be reassured, but he can't hit me or DD.)

But then he fell asleep as his head hit the pillow and had a much better morning and bedtime today. He did nap at nursery though there was apparently some hitting but it was much milder than in previous days. I also had to remove DD and myself after he shouted at her and scared her. But a lot better. Just need to get him to sleep better now!

Glad you had a better day, drspouse.

Monkey / moresnow - yes, to point 2b! I worry that I'm low-level niggly with the boys a lot of the time. Had parents' evening for DS1 today, and his teacher thinks he's delightful. While I'm pleased that he isn't one of those kids that the parents think is an angel and everyone else thinks is a nightmare, it has the potential to really pile on the guilt that difficulties at home are my fault - if I let it.

In the spirit of the above, the things I'm trying to convince myself at the moment are:

a) I'm not responsible for how other people feel.
b) Children need to be taught good principles rather than obedience.
c) It's not a disaster if we attract attention to ourselves, e.g. by the boys being noisy in a public place.
d) It's OK to make mistakes.
e) Sometimes good enough is good enough!

Blue great points there! Especially b!

Yup, yup and yup.
All bulletin points brill. Blue you know they are true, you should only need to 'convince yourself' of something if there is doubt. ( the existence of Father Christmas. Or the humanity of certain politicians for example. ) I am glad his teacher thinks he is delightful. That's always nice. . The 'I'm stupid' stuff we were discussing earlier is familiar territory to me as my dd2 does this a lot. So there is a lot of self esteem support and empathetic listening going on here. I also share my thought processes with her if I've done something daft.

There's knowing and knowing, though, letsgo. My rational brain believes those things but they don't (always) feel true to the emotional, primal fight-or-flight bit!

Another massive yes to all of those blue I agree with your second post too - the fact is that sometimes you do need to be strong and hold fast to believe them (and try not to wail but hooow??!!).

Oh my goodness, so glad I have just found this. Really looking forward to having a read through everyone's posts when I have some time (so never!).

I am new to Mumsnet but was thinking of starting a thread to see if anyone out there felt as like I do. It's just so relentless and exhausting (I have a 2years7month old and an 8month old) and it's bringing out the worst in me. I HATE loosing my patience and I HATE being negative, it just doesn't give my 2 year old the mum he deserves, but it just keeps happening.

There are some days which are good and I feel like I manage tantrums well and calmly. But then it's all undermined by a bad day when I yell back, or grab him roughly when he's knocked the baby over or whatever. All normal behaviour for a toddler that get's worse when he feels insecure because his mum behaves badly. I can see that. I find it incredibly frustrating that I can see the choice lies with me and yet I am incapable of getting out of the Jekyll and Hyde parenting that I'm in. Does anyone else feel like this?

Don't get me wrong, it's not all of the time. We have a very loving relationship with lots of fun and cuddles etc. But I need to be able to cope when it's not like that, because kids WILL ALWAYS be pains in the butt who do something when you've told them not to, and currently I'm not coping.

I've read some of the threads on here about adults who struggle now because they've been the victim of toxic parenting. A lot of that's sexual/physical abuse which of course isn't the case here... but some of it isn't. It terrifies me that if I can get unfairly cross with and blame my 2 year old, how will I cope with the challenges of older children? And what effect will it have on them. Perhaps I'm being over the top...

Popping in to say I agree with both your bullet point posts another and blue .

And jess that's exactly what I feel. what is the balance between 'good enough' and 'messing them up with a constant drip feed of negativity'. I continue to jekyll and Hyde it up

I have nothing useful to say today. 4 year old has a tummy bug. DH away last night and today. I had all 3 dc up last night. Up most of the night with DD vomiting. Today I am mostly allowing them to watch TV, have failed to get either dt to nap and trying to survive.

oh except I think DH catastrophises when he talks about divorce. It scares the shit out of me coming from a divorced home myself. Yet I don't think we are anywhere near that point so it's so frustrating. its not perfect, don't get me wrong, but not quite as bad as that.

Hi, jess . Your post made me want to shout out a massive I HEAR YOU, GIRL!! (don't know why, not been watching Jerry Springer or anything...) but oh my word I know how you feel.

dreaming you deserve a big glass of and an early night. Having your DH mention divorce must be really tough :(

dreaming hope the bug doesn't run through you all. I had one memorable night on the floor beside the cot bed where one of my children vomited about every 30mins for the whole night. I gave up going back to bed and just slept (in 15 minute chunks) wrapped in a duvet on the floor.

jess welcome, you will find if you ever get the time to read back through the thread, that you are totally in the right place. You're amongst people who know exactly what you are going through. I've got older children. It's easier , you'll be fine, really, and so will your kids.
Tonight our challenges are tiredness (me and DH) parents evening (no tears this time ) meal in the slow cooker being too damn slow, after school activities, physics homework, grade 5 scales, sibling bickering (worsened by hunger, alleviated by toast ) living room (decorating) so no tv or relaxing space. Ill be glad when it's bedtime.