Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

I like your suggestions moresnow about dealing with really bad /violent stuff. Calm "we don't do that" and removal. The book I have just read suggests that rather than focusing on how best to react to bad behaviour, we look at what events have led up to the behaviour and focus on prevention. She (the author) seems to be very into a 'see the situation from your child's point of view' approach. She never says that though, makes it much more complicated with obscure questions to answer. But that is the gist. I'll post the title and writer later.

I like to approach with the attitude that anyone can get it wrong, we need to make better what has been broken / hit / grievously insulted. I'm also into the idea of a fresh slate on a daily basis. I don't hark back to previous mishaps/misbehaviour etc. I would I think be "surprised and disappointed" by bad behaviour if you are looking for an alternative to time out/ shouting. Make reparations to the injured party and MOVE ON, with the attitude and expressed instruction that next time they will do X not Y, because " we don't do Y and I like it when you do X"
dizzy that sounds terribly difficult. Has she shared with you much about her feelings about the baby and how his arrival has changed her world? A bit of exploration of that might help. She is quite young isn't she ? so may not have words for how it has affected her. Stories and books about new baby in the family, with children in the story who find it hard, might be another way to "talk" about it. Also, while you are changing nappy etc. have you tried giving her something helpful and big sistery to do? Changing the dynamic and making her big and responsible.
monkey I like it when you say I'm right . I hope you do manage to prioritise time to look after your own mental health. About the mornings, yes that would get my day off to a Terrible start too . There are those clocks aren't there that have a sun appear? My nephew has one, and they are not allowed to disturb mum intil the sun is up.. Someone will know what they are called or post a link. There may also need to be a big incentive for three undisturbed mornings or whatever.
We eventually got home after a 4 hour journey that included leaving the M 'way to avoid the jam, then an 8 mile stint going north on the motorway instead of South after getting into the wrong lane getting back on.

Well it turned out DD was actually ill today, which would explain this morning's particular fussiness. We ended up spending most of the afternoon together on the sofa whilst watching films. DH came home to help me and it's a good thing he did as DD projectile vomited over me just as we got home from a HV appointment. Dealing with that whilst also having to calm DD and take care of DS would definitely not have helped.

I didn't actually get round to asking him Mymble, I always end up feeling like I'd be mean to ask him to do more so I end up staying quiet, which I know is stupid of me really.
I have tried walking away to get a break before but DD just follows me (or terrorises the dog), normally follows me screaming though. That's a great point about deciding between calm and empathy though, think I will need to start doing this as well - no point trying to force myself to empathise when I don't emotionally have it in me that day.

I actually used to do that as well Snow, though not so much lately. I think the more tired I've gotten and harder I've found things the more I've just been ignoring her rather than trying to listen and empathise, must get back to my roots! I started out with such high hopes and ambitions when I started this parenting journey, nowadays I seem to just be feeling besieged.

Oh X-posts.

Mymble I guess if that was me I'd keep reminding him what I expected - to politely ask his brother to move aside or to not touch his things - and if he was to be rough with his brother anyway I'd ignore him whilst empathising with his brother. I'd hope that he'd eventually get the message and in the meantime would be vigilant whilst he was still learning.

I do sometimes talk with her about what it's like now and how she might be finding it difficult Letsgo, although yes she is young (2.4) and I do worry that I might be putting words into her mouth. Some books are a good idea, shall have to check amazon. She's actually a really sweet and wonderful big sister - she seems to have a naturally caring nature. Without prompting she often goes to him whilst he's crying and asks him what's wrong or tells him "it's ok, DD's here." She also gets blankets and covers him with them, and wants to pass me wet wipes or be the one to put the cream on his bum. We sometimes play together at trying to entertain him (finger puppets are a hit). I try my best to give her focused time as well but it can be hard.

Really quick one as we're away for a few nights (centre parcs. not sure it's our thing! !)

moresnow ,no I couldn't have done it myself. One of my twins is a refluxer. He's still on omeprazole now and he's 2 years 7 months. Until 22 months (when he swapped to omeprazole and domperidone from ranitidine and domperidone-life changing) he cokited a lot at bedtjme. Or woke between 8-10pm puking. He used to only go to sleep holding tightly round my neck. He never normally slept past 10pm and never ever had slept past 11pm. Then coslept and woke up to 6 times and got up at 5:30am. I can't give away her trade secrets on mn as we did accidentally as I used her on recommendation of my sleep deprived thread mn friend and she got us both to delete all details but the other poster and i and now 5 others from our long running sleep deprived thread have all had success. One failure but he was younger, 9 months, and a refluxer and I know for a fact it wouldn't have worked for dt1 earlier. But, to stop rambling, she's taken us from.that to sleeping all night in his own bed. Sleeping through wasn't actually actually a goal we set as neither of us thought it realistic for my dt1. I wanted him out of my bed as it was affecting me seeing to the other two in the night and he woke every time.i moved basically. He always came for my night time toilet trips for example. ... And I wanted to improve bedtimes. I honestly can't believe how well its worked. She's ace. We did a 6 week package and it was pricey though. Paid for both boys. Success with both though dt2 was never a problem in the night just at bedtime. linkety link

*vomited

dreaming that's so interesting. I need someone like her for behaviour.

I'm trying to avoid catastrophising in the way I explain this... ...I hate myself at the moment

The behaviour when they are together is so bloody annoying. I try and try and try but ultimately am just clearly annoyed. Because it's really really annoying. So little works with DS and I'm sick of my own voice.

A friend of mine in RL said that there should be someone you could go to to discuss this stuff, without necessarily having to attach a label. But who and where? It's not that I have any shortage of ideas and techniques and honestly, I'm generally a patient and calm person. It's just that so little works with DS and I am pushed to my limit daily. It's the noise level as much as anything, the impulsive roaring and yelling and fake laughing and shouting. My nerves are jangling. And it's only when he's with DD.

letsgo you're thinking of a gro-clock, we have one but haven't had much success.

dizzy is your DD any better?

Hope you've all had a good day x

dizzy it sounds like you're doing a fantastic job with your DD. I love the idea of entertaining your DS together. My DD is a very similar age (2 yrs 5 months) and it's tough at times, even without a new sibling in the mix. It really is hard to find that one-on-one time in the early days - it does get easier but I think you feel it most acutely at first when it's just been the two of you for so much time before.

She is better today thankyou Monkey, in fact today has been a lot better in general. And thankyou though tbh I don't feel like I am. I realised a new trick today actually, when DD wanted me to read a book I had DS in his bouncer, got her on my lap, book infront of us and reading to her but looking at him and making elaborate faces as I read. He loved it, she loved it and was getting her own snuggle time with me, win win. When DS needed a nap I also got him in the sling and then did some baking with her, so again whilst he was there it hopefully for her felt very much more her time with me.

Sorry just realised there was another post above. I was just wondering, if their behaviour is annoying is it so bad that they can tell you're annoyed? Obviously I don't mean acting out and giving in to anything extreme, but if you're trying to do the best you can and it's just that your annoyance is coming through in your tone of voice then doesn't that just show that you're human with feelings?

dizzy DS said to DD yesterday eve "DD, you're annoying mummy". Which is true, she was. But this is SO not the impression I want to give them, she was just being a toddler who wanted some mummy attention at the time but I couldn't do everything at once and was getting stressed.

I've dug the buttons book out again, I found it very comforting last night. I'll start working through it again, I think.

moresnow that's what DS did with our groclock!! It has to be plugged into mains doesn't it, and we don't have anywhere to put it where it can be plugged in AND out of reach. He cracked the 'lock' on the first evening.

Maybe I should start a RL support network :). Maybe one day I will....

Sounds like you have a sound plan in place, too.

I have to write about this morning as I know you lot will understand what a big deal this was for me.

We've started putting breakfast cereals out for DS so he can go down and get his own breakfast. There are a number of reasons why in the long term, I'm not sure this will work so well. However. This morning (day 2), DS came to me in bed (when I was sitting up demonstrably awake, but...) and said "no, no don't worry mummy, don't wake up, I've just come to tell you I'm going downstairs to make my breakfast". He then went to DD who was having a nice old tantrum at the door of our room but refusing to talk to either me or DH (god help us when she's a teenager) and talked her out of it, inviting her down too and the pair of them having a big joke about her first answer to 'what do you want for breakfast' being 'daaaaaaddddy'. He took her downstairs and they had breakfast together while me and DH got dressed.

And

How proud am I of him this morning?!!

Thanks for all the suggestions. That's exactly it MoreSnow - it's when DS2 gets the brunt of it that I find it hard to keep my cool. And it's hard because it doesn't really come from a bad place, it's just hugging him around his head or neck as he's trying to potter about his own business. I will keep trying to gently redirect.

Ha ha - at least the gro clock incident shows great problem solving skills!!

Aww, what a lovely resourceful, sympathetic little man, Another. :)

How old are your DC Snow? I'm a long-term BFer with DD, though have cut her down to nap times and night only now since tbh I really don't like her being on there any more - I just don't yet feel able to stop completely considering the jealousy and insecurity she's going through right now.

Ah I understand what you mean Monkey. And this morning sounds amazing, well done your DS!

What's the buttons book?

Monkey Yay! It's brilliant when they get to that stage, isn't it? I must admit I am ever so slightly of you overhearing them make a little joke about wanting to eat Daddy for breakfast. Argh ovaries twanging! I think we've decided () to get a dog first before we TTC. I definitely don't want to be doing both at the same time.

Buttons book is "When Your Kids Push Your Buttons" - it's a good one but very self-helpy, with homework Probably not a great one to try and do with a small baby, but I don't know. It might be good to read through. It promises to help you deal with "When you know how you should - how you want to - deal with situations but in the moment you react all wrong and out of your mouth comes your mother".

I've got back into the Marie Kondo book, which is nothing to do with parenting but more about your house. I'm hoping it will help me establish an inner calm

Thanks, littlemymble :)

Hi bertie ! it's true that they are having some real bonding moments at the moment, which is very very cool. I'm interested in the Marie Kondo book now! Any inner calming tips for us?!

dizzy yes the buttons book is the one Bertie describes! It's proving to be so alarmingly relevant to my family, both to me and the DCs but also me and my parents, it's like a lightbulb moment every other sentence. I can only cope with short sections at a time as it feels strangely intense. It's a great big wake up call, that much is for sure. And I love a bit of homework :)

moresnow so glad you've had a good day. The energy burn off makes such a difference, it's like having a puppy.

Aw, that's lovely, Monkey. The constant noise level is a trigger for me too. Can't remember how old yours are - are they old enough that you can leave them and hide away from the noise to get some calm?

Feeling very guilty today because I clean forgot to go to an event at school with DS2. Have also done far too much shouting today, maybe as a result. But was getting v tense with getting ready for school in time this morning and the boys suddenly took it upon themselves to be helpful, got ready in seconds flat and then stood at the door with coats and shoes on saying "come on, Mummy!"

Morning everyone! I'm still here, although I must admit I haven't been on MN for about a week so had LOADS of replies to read.

MrPop my DD was 4 weeks on 31st October (when you said your LO was 5 weeks) so just one week difference. Most of the time DD is a delightful baby - very easy to take care of, but the last couple of days she's been pretty testing. I BF her, so there's only me that can take care of her most of the time which makes things a little difficult sometimes, but I know that for every instance when bottle feeding her would make life easier, there's an occasion when BF does. I've been there with a baby that will only sleep when cuddled/in a sling, so I'm trying my hardest with her to make her self-settle in her pram/crib whenever possible. Often she complies, but this morning she's wanted to be cuddled to sleep. Like you said, just enjoy it and don't wish it away. As DH said this morning, it wont feel like two minutes until she's bringing boyfriends home, etc.

Ooh, she's crying again. Better go... x

mandbaby On the subject of making the second baby less dependent on holding/rocking etc. We did this with DS2 when he was tiny. We definitely made sure to give him lots of cuddles and attention like you say, and enjoyed him being tiny, but we also started a lot earlier with the independent sleeping and stuff and it really seemed to work. DS1 used to sleep on me (literally on my chest in bed) until he was about 13 months and weighed a ton. DS2 is a lot more settled in his own bed and even playing on his own while I do chores or cooking. So there is hope!

omg how have I missed these threads.

I had an incident this week which I completely mis-handle. I'm too ashamed to say...as I know I would get flamed and reported to someone somewhere.

I find myself apologising to my DS (8) ...then I lose my temper again.

Having come through some, lets say a phase in personal development stuff this last 6 months, this is my one source of sadness out of shame. I fear I am messing my DS up. I think he got put with the wrong parent - yet he came from me.

andsmile am not sure we've met and I don't know your circumstances but you sound like you are really beating yourself up. do you want to share what has been difficult? Even generally rather than a specific eg?

So those of you who have encouraged self soothing early - how did you do it? Do you have set times for naps?

I drove myself a bit mad with all this with ds1 and vowed to just do what worked for us with ds2. I was so much happier but I am doubting myself with everything with DD.

Thanks for your kind welcome to thread mrpop

My DS does not listen. Or he does, and will acknowledge you, then doest not action what you say.

I do all day to day parenting of DD 2.8 (who is so easy to look after) and DS (8)

I cannot seem to apply the same patience with DS that I have learned to do with other things. I really lost it with DS as for the second time that day DD got hurt bad (she is wuite tough but cried and screamed for ages) but not bad enough to require a trip to GP or A&E. So I smacked him.

I feel I am always on at him and I am damaging his self esteem. He will say negative things about himself - though i do think he does this for attention and tries it as reverse psychology.

I feel out of my depth.

I do think I am pretty good at lots of other parenting bits - but it is somewhat undermined if this how I go on.

Hi andsmile.

Epic parenting fail here today. Lost it badly with DS1 this morning. And then again just now. Feel terrible.