Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

Hi all, is it ok if I join?

I have two boys 3.5 years and 13 months and one dearly missed DS who was my eldest's twin. I have a history of low mood, anger, feelings of low self esteem but have never sought a diagnosis or support, even after the death of my second little boy. I think there is an underlying feeling of not being worth the support if you see what I mean.

Anyway, I had a lightbulb moment last Friday when I was way too rough with my eldest and just felt instantly sick. It's not the first time I've been rough with him but I felt so awful that I made myself promise never to do it again. I'm very proud to say that it's now been nearly a week since I have so much as raised my voice to him, but I know what I'm like, so I'm trying to put measures in place to keep myself on an even keel now while I already feel good.

I've started relaxation practice, and following this thread and aha parenting, and when we move house soon and get set up with a new GP I'm going to seek out some counselling to help with my anger and low mood, rather than waiting for them to return and everything to go to pot again.

It continues to be so very hard here at the moment.

I am very low, I couldn't stop crying this morning. It isn't depression I don't think, although I'm starting to wonder, as the fog clears when the mad behaviour eases. It's just so very intense and frustrating.

I am still going around in circles on my head about DS and whether we are in the range of 'normal'. The worry and uncertainty are driving me crazy, on top of the sadness for him as I just don't know how else to help him and he has so much anger and sadness. I also feel very isolated as the few people I feel comfortable enough to talk to about this are the people DS has known forever and is also very comfortable with. They might see some of the quirks but nothing like the extent of it and I find it very difficult to explain clearly exactly what it's like when it's bad.

DD is becoming very articulate and is already far more receptive and responsive to body language and unspoken cues than DS. But she thinks his crazy behaviour is hilarious and copies him as much as possible. She is also becoming pretty possessive and demanding and I feel like I'm failing all the time in trying to meet their emotional needs.

There was a quote on fb the other day: just because you're struggling doesn't mean you're failing. I'm trying so hard to remember this!

I've also noticed with DS that when there's a few people around, he doesn't always get who people are talking to and generally just seems to think that any comment which isn't directed at a named individual is intended for him. It's made me wonder if he feels like he is in trouble more often than he is and what impact this has on his perception generally.

I've reached the stage where I feel like I need some help, that I can't do this by myself anymore. I have no idea what sort of help I need though or where to get it.

littlemymble you're very welcome, thanks for posting. Congratulations on your progress this week, that's fantastic. It sounds like you've got a really sound plan in place. What relaxation practice are you doing, if you don't mind me being nosy?! I'm so sorry about your DS :(

msdolittle welcome to you too! On my phone so trying to flick between pages.

I've just realised how many 'sadness'es I've managed to get into my last few posts. The DCs have used the word quite a lot today.

Hi everyone, so many new people here! (((waves)))

Last time I wrote we were getting an assessment for DS (4yo). That was a few weeks ago. It was inconclusive but we are getting a next level up referral, so the wait goes on. Turns out nursery, who had been so positive whenever we'd asked about progress, actually think his social and emotional skills are very limited for his age. It is gutting to hear that but explains why we have found things so hard. Now it's a case of seeing whether he'll catch up on his own or if there is some deeper reason (that maybe has a label attached).

I'm trying to go as AHA parenting as possible and when I can it seems to help us all. Difficult when you don't feel calm though!

Another I can relate, having niggles about your DC is worrying and draining especially if it is on top of dealing with whatever difficult behaviours they're showing. DC can just be very hard work no matter what!

Sorry this is short and so self focused, will post again when I can. Thinking of everyone though going through all our trials xxx

bertie your post really struck a chord with me. I worry so much that when I flip and scream at them I frighten them and despite not wanting it to be like that that it will be a lasting memory, of mummy going crackers and shouting at them I really do try not to. DT1 tries to stop it by coming and giving me a kiss- so sweet and shows a lot of empathy and understanding as he wouldn't normally, and he's only 2.6. They all say orange rhino to me (wish I'd never mentioned that one! ) Not all the time or every day but too often if I'm honest.

dishes that's worrying about your ds. And frustrating abojt nursery saying fine, fine, fine- oh actuakly notnthat fine And I understand your worries too another . For you though, if he's picking up on some.of your anxiety do you think it'd feed into any of his behaviours? or is it his lack of picking that up that is worrying you?

anyway its late and I'd best go. Operation Go to Bed On Time definitely impacts well on my parenting and look at the time!

dreaming I am sure that, although I am trying really really hard to keep positive, my tiredness and dwindling patience and anxiety is increasingly coming through at times. I'm trying very hard to keep positive and calm!

Oops was just trying to edit that and posted! Will keep typing....

dreaming is there anything in particular which causes the shouting for you, or is it more the drip drip effect we've mentioned before?

dishes it's good to see you and hear how things are going. The waiting and worry must be tough. I'd be a bit put out at the change of feedback from nursery too. DS is similar - immature emotional and social skills is the kind of feedback he gets from school, along with a few strange behaviours.

I'm back on form today, no more feeling sorry for myself, I'm going to consciously replace self pitying thoughts for reminders of how lucky I am, I love them both so much and it will get easier. Here's to a better day x

Hello! Have been following but find it hard to contribute atm - I usually have dd sleeping on me and I currently am typing one handed - v slooooow.

Littlemymble really sorry to hear about your ds. Have you also been on the mn bereavement board? I think getting support for yourself is a good idea. I am also bereaved, also a ds, and my husband has really struggled with anger - quite understandably of course.

Random but Dreaming have you considered an egg timer - the ones with sand (sure they have a proper name) - to get your dc to share. They used it at ds's nursery, the first child plays with the toy til the sand runs out then its the other child's turn. Quite good as it is very visual and they can see they're both getting the same length of time with the toy.

Dizzy I don't think you are unreasonable to ask your dh not to facebook and to help get ds dressed. When dc are young it is 'all hands on deck' i think. Your dh should see this and also know that things will get easier - his sacrifice of 'me time' won't be forever.

Monkey glad to hear you are feeling happier - I like that fb quote, very true. From your post, I am wondering if it worth exploring if your ds has additional needs - maybe knowing one way or another would be helpful as it would take away your uncertainty and you doubting yourself, plus you may get more support? Is your ds at school?

It was very interesting to read your childhood experiences. My childhood was happy in the main, though my parents were quite authoritative - my brother and I were very compliant as a result (I agree with the poster who said they have subconsciously internalised the view children should DO AS THEY'RE TOLD) though the negative side was not confiding in our parents and hiding our true feelings (about some things) from them - so quite a negative outcome really. Even now I am very private about my feelings says she, on an open forum

Also my dad was quite erratic, his moods influenced our household - that feeling of walking on eggshells around him, which I think has also made my brother and I quite timid. Also my parents didn't have a great relationship (eventually divorcing) and that also had an effect on me (the relationship difficulties not the divorce).

My mum wasn't perfect but I felt and feel loved by her and I guess it is good to reflect on that as 'good enough' parenting.

Currently finding it hard going with a newborn, especially as she likes to sleep on me or in the sling. I know things will get easier - just feel quite tired and overwhelmed at times. Trying not to wish the time away. Mandbaby how old is your dd now? Mine is 5 weeks.

Hello to everyone else - sorry not to name check everyone,

another glad to hear you're feeling better. Maybe it is worth exploring if your ds has any additional needs. I agree it's really hard not knowing and having a 'good' day and thinking it's all fine, then a bad day (you or him) and thinking it's definitely not fine- and then back and round and round again! I'm tying myself in knots over a school decision and feel I choose, sleep on it, change my mind, decide one dc wouldn't do well there etc etc and go round and round and that's bad enough!

I think I shout when I feel things are getting out of control (and there's loads of rough play/shouting/ arguing/snatching which drives me wild). When I feel they're not listening to me. When I think others would think they're being really badly behaved. when they're destructive (like this morning- I was trying to get the slow cooker on, dd playing downstairs, boys had been playing with a puzzle upstairs. Go up and they've taken all the bedding off every bed and dumped it on the floor. thrown something at the ceiling lampshade knocked it off and ripped it- I shouted. wrong response, of course) When I'm frustrated we aren't getting anything done especially as dd gets bored - I feel the pressure to do things with her as she's 4 and loves new things. All my issues. All that I'm not handling well.

mrpop I had tried a timer which beeped which worked ok but the sleep consultant was encouraging a more 'let them play as long as they want and help the other wait' approach. she sent me some links. She has cloned my child into one who sleeps so thought I'd try. But actually it's so hard. I can't do anything bar 'help' them not kill each other while not sharing so maybe I will just get the sand timer

Had a success yesterday - we're staying with my parents and had decided to go on a steam train ride but DS1 suddenly announced that he didn't want to go. As it was my dad's birthday, staying behind with him wasn't an option so I talked it all through with DS1 and came up with things we could do to make it better. In the end he came and had a great time but if I had just taken the "it's grandad's birthday so you're coming whether you like it or not" approach my mum was advising he'd have been capable of spoiling the entire afternoon for everyone.

Hello all. In big traffic jam on M6 (DH driving) so perfect chance to catch up. On phone though so clunky chunky fingers may do typos.
To those wondering about if their DCs are displaying definable behavioural problems .. I do sympathise it must be a worry. But I think it is, at this young age, more helpful to address the situations that arise through our children's individuality. This is being done on this thread through analysis of particular incidents, support and 'positive parenting' awareness. There is a vast range of normal behaviour. And an equally vast range of responses to "difficult behaviour"
bluewell done on your success. It is twice as hard managing a challenge when the next generation up are promoting the "just tell him" attitude.
dreaming I'd also find all those triggers hard to deal with calmly. Why does the "what other people think of their behaviour/ our parenting" have such an impact? That feeling of being judged makes it so much harder to see clearly what needs to happen and what we need to do. The trashing of all the beds would make me mad. When that happens do you get them to put everything back? Years ago I worked with a child who was in the habit of coming into a nursery and simply clearing a table of the activities by just sweeping it all on to the floor. He was not allowed to get away with this. Anything he put on the floor had to be picked up by him. This took ages as you can imagine, but it did improve his behaviour. He was also allowed to sit in the ball pool and fling all the balls into a net that had been set up. This was an alternative to him flinging them out into the play area.
monkey you have been having lots of ups and downs recently. Do you feel that how you feel is proportionate to your actual situation or is there some catastrophising going on? May have spelt that wrong. I was just wondering if some CBT or mindfulness awareness might help you with the negative thought patterns?
Sometimes though you can just have a crap day.
Hello to all I've not name checked, especially to the newbies. Will see if this big post works and read back some more.
We are crawling. Going nowhere!

Thanks all. Today hasn't been so good though. V stressed over packing this morning, combined with poor night's sleep & headache. And DS1 was picking up the stress + dreading the car journey and generally bad at transitions. Everyone lost it a bit. And again when we got home over unpacking, still had a headache. And more transitions. All good resolutions go to pot. Sigh.

Dreaming all those things are triggers for me too, trying to deal with them through CBT, but rubbish at remembering to write things down and work through them at the time.

And the traffic queue continues on and on. Girls have stopped playing on their phones and have moved onto repetitive songs learnt by girl guide / scout campfires. DH has got terrible flatulence. Enclosed space. Dwindling tempers. happy days.

Sorry to join and then go quiet. I haven't had internet all weekend.

Another I have been trying some meditation recordings whenever I can find free ones online, just focussing on breath. When we are settled in our new house I would like to find a real life yoga or mindfulness course.

MrPop sorry to hear about your DS too. It's tough, isn't it.

Blue that does sound stressful. My eldest DS hates getting packed up for a big journey. It sets us both on edge. I find myself trying to reassure him every 5 minutes how well he's coping (even if he's really not!)

How do you all cope/stay calm when your DC keep on and on? DD is getting so jealous of DS, she seems to be crying all the time lately. I am finding it really hard to stay empathetic and calm, in fact I'm not at all really Is there anything you tell yourself, breathing exercises, anything to help you when you have a child crying insistently in your ear? This morning's example was trying to get DS changed after a nappy leak whilst having DD crying constantly, trying to climb on me, trying to give her food to the dog which she then would have screamed bloody murder afterwards had he taken it (I spotted it in time and intervened, which was apparently bad enough of me in itself). I'm just finding it so hard.

Dizzy That's one of the things I find the hardest. Honestly, I think everyone finds it hard to keep cool when it's like that.

The best remedy for me is time away from the constant noise. Did you ask your partner to take over the early mornings/tea times to give you a break? I would be interested in knowing how some of the ladies who have been practicing not shouting for longer cope with it, but for me I hide in the kitchen for 30secs/1 minute mid tantrum and eat a biscuit (very healthy coping mechanism there) and make sure that if my eldest is having TV time while the baby naps I take 10 minutes to myself.

You say about being calm and empathetic. Some days I realise I'm not going to have the energy to be calm AND empathetic so I just settle for calm and I just stop trying to stop him crying if you know what I mean. I carry on being polite and doing what we've got to get done but I just ignore the whining and don't engage with it. Sometimes that stops him doing it and we can stop for a cuddle when I've got time or he's in the mood for one. I don't know if that's very healthy, but to be honest on those days when he whines from morning to night, I don't think I have the emotional energy to fix all the problems.

dizzy I really empathise. Basically what littlemymble said is all I have, it's when the two of them are at it that it sends me truly crazy!

letsgo you're right and I think it's a combination of catastrophising when I'm tired/PMTish (I definitely do this) and the sheer relentlessness of it. I'm thinking about seeing if I can be referred for some counselling, if I can find any way of getting to the doctors without children! I genuinely love many parts of this parenting journey (and my two insane, wonderful children) but when it's tough I find it REALLY tough sometimes. I love your description of the journey

Our current challenge is the mornings - DD keeps sneaking into our bed at night, DS bounds in and wakes us all up with crazy behaviour before six, wakes eVerybody up in the most seriously annoying way possible, goes completely batshit if we try to send him back to his room until a more respectable hour. I am not a happy bunny anyway before 10am and two coffees when ungently woken at this time and it is HAAAAAAAAARD not to set the whole day off on a very bad foot.

Ok, so first day back at nursery and my lovely little boy who coped so well with train journeys, weddings, no hitting, no wetting etc over the holiday has just gone haywire.

How do you all get the message across that something is seriously naughty without shouting? Today DS1 has bitten me, ripped one of my books, constantly grabbed his brother's face and pulled his best friend's hair so hard she nearly fell on the floor. I do time outs for violence but he gets in this mood where he couldn't give a shiny sh** about being told off and just ignores me or refuses to listen or purposely wets himself. Aaaaaaagh!

I don't think the time outs work to be honest, but I also don't think I can just sit him down and talk to him about not hurting, because it's just the same level as if he throws a toy on the floor. I feel like I need to make him understand how out of order it is to do that.

On the positive side I haven't shouted all day or been at all rough when leading him to time out so I am owed a whole pack of biscuits after bedtime tonight.

Thanks MoreSnow - that makes sense. I feel like time outs stopped working a while ago because he loves the drama. I liked your earlier point about acknowledging his feelings but ignoring his whiny behaviour too.

So just as a real life example though, today he kept pulling his brother by his face and neck, not even really to hurt him but to move him out the way or stop him touching something, but he just didn't stop all day. Would you just ignore all day or would you give lots of attention to the younger one? Is there a point at which you stop ignoring and do a punishment?