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Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

964 replies

BertieBotts · 31/08/2014 09:56

Terrible title sorry Grin Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework Wink (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
BlueEyeshadow · 16/10/2014 22:27

Monkey - sorry things are so tough. Would lots of hugs help, for you and for her?

MrPop - have you tried the gradual withdrawal thing? So, you start by staying with him, and then move a little bit further out of the room until you're staying outside the door, and then don't stay at all?

AnotherMonkey · 17/10/2014 09:20

letsgo my friends don't really get it because they tend to see the best side of both of them.

dreaming it is so tough sometimes - it's easy to underestimate how wearing the tantrums are. It's good to know I'm not alone though!

blue lots of hugs definitely helps, but there are basically two main problems: one if she is getting lots of attention but has to share it with DS; and the other is if I have to give something else (like going to the toilet, for example) some of my attention instead of doing exactly what she wants. And god forbid if I need her to do something not on her own to-do list Hmm

We're having a better morning - just one incident so far!

Letsgoforawalk · 17/10/2014 17:29

monkey I love your optimism. It's got to 9.20 with just one incident and that's a 'better morning' Wink
I hope the rest of the day has gone well so far.
What I was starting to say last night was that some children, when given an inch, will take an inch (and be happy with it). These feisty ones will, if given an inch, think "way hey I got an inch, now I want the next 5yards and if mum says no I'll just bring out the big guns and see what happens. After all, I got the inch, there is some give in the system.....here goes !"
So hence the boundaries of steel and clarity and thinking about which battles are winnable / fight able before you agree or disagree.
But bloody hell it's exhaustingConfused
This may not be what is going on with your DCs dreaming and monkey but if it is there is also a real benefit in the empathy / recognising emotions stuff that HTT talks about when the rage starts.
Really difficult to keep up with though especially when you have other stuff to deal with. And little sleep.
As ever, parting shot, It will get better!.
Smile

BlueEyeshadow · 17/10/2014 19:23

I'm getting towards the end of the Buttons book again now. As I need to be becoming a lot more aware of emotions etc for the wellbeing stuff I'm doing, I hope it will also help me to be better at putting the Buttons stuff into practice this time round. Last time I read it, I just catalogued it as "too hard" and promptly forgot it all. I WILL do better this time.

I hope today continued better, Monkey

AnotherMonkey · 17/10/2014 20:04

Ha letsgo I wondered if anyone would pick up on the time! When you've been up since 5am it's not a bad run, though... Grin

You are absolutely right about the boundaries of steel. Both of mine need these, it appears.

I hate 'the rage'. I think I may need to dig the buttons book back out again at the moment, too.

Thanks blue, it was a better day overall.

DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep · 17/10/2014 22:33

Hooray monkey! I hate 5 am. you did well to have a good day after that!

Yes. I think the "I got one inch, I'll have another 10 please" describes dt1.

anyway. long delay home.after visiting my ill sister again today though she is recovering, just slowly. So no time to post properly.

DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep · 18/10/2014 13:29

Today I am mostly trying to cope with a D&V bug. DH is on a course. I have been trying to beg the dc into good behaviour as I'm ill. unsuccessfully of course. Dt1 had a huge tantrum as it was right before lunch and he was tired as he wouldn't put his apple core in the bin and wanted to give it to me. He was stood next to the bin. I'd have had to walk to him to do it for him. I'd like to say I stood. my.ground but actually DT2 did it for him and I ignored itBlush Very typical, useful kind of tantrum we have here though Hmm.

I know I'm not feeling well but I have shouted, cried and made them.feel bad. Sigh. Come home dh! !!!

BlueEyeshadow · 19/10/2014 19:04

Oh dear, Dreaming - gentle hugs! I hope you're feeling better today.

Letsgoforawalk · 20/10/2014 21:36

Hello everyone. dreaming hope you are better Smile

BlueEyeshadow · 20/10/2014 21:44

Mixed success today.

Lost it with DS2 for whinging about not wanting a drink of water after school. Blush Had been a busy day, got wet on the school run, feeling a bit under the weather... but still!

Later on though, he was nagging at me to go on the Wii and I was able to realise that I was reacting out of fear/anxiety about screen time etc and calm down.

PlasticCoat · 22/10/2014 15:05

Hello, sorry I've not posted for a while, things had been manic as ever - work, dc, dd turned 7 so had the whole party thing to contend with etc.
Monkey I'm not surprise you're getting worn down, especially having to get up so early then deal with constant crying etc. I have no advice apart from to say the toddler stage doesn't go on forever. Flowers
Blue kudos to you on reading re buttons book - I wish I could, I tried many years ago and a few times since. I wouldn't have been such a shouty, nasty mum to ds for so long if I had conquered that book.
Dreaming I hope everyone is feeling better.

I just wanted to say the whole descriptive praise thing is still working!!! It has been 2.5 weeks now and we have only had 2 days where things have deteriorated to the shouting stage - and even then it wasn't as bad as before!! I need to get reading the rest of the book now before my new found technique wears off. Of course, with half term approaching, things may not go so well Hmm

PlasticCoat · 22/10/2014 15:08

Oh dear, that should say I hope you're feeling better, Dreaming

Letsgoforawalk · 22/10/2014 19:56

blue hi sounds like you are making progress. I must look at that buttons book. It gets lots of referencing on here. I find books that demand 'homework' a bit tedious Confused too lazy ...
plastic hello again and I'm so pleased to hear that the descriptive praise is still working. well done you - and your wonderfully responsive DCs!

BlueEyeshadow · 22/10/2014 22:38

Thanks Plastic and Letsgo. I guess I am making a bit of progress, but painfully slow.

Plastic don't put yourself down! It sounds like you're doing brilliantly with the descriptive praise thing. I've never properly got to grips with that.

DizzyKipper · 22/10/2014 23:43

Oh God yes do I need this thread! I'm sorry not to have read through first but hoped I could have a quick critique and any advice for this situation:

I've 2 DC, DD (2.4) and DS (1 month). DD has recently really started terrorising the dog - she'll jump on him, grab his feet, chase him round with her toy buggy etc. The dog has been extremely tolerant but obviously has limits and I don't want them being pushed too far and have him ending up snapping at her. At first we would just tell her 'no' and keep explaining about being gentle, but she kept on doing what she wanted so now I'm going with the tactic of removing her from the room as soon as she bothers him. I don't have a pet gate (yet) so right now she's just following me straight back in with the addition of now having a tantrum as well. I also remind her to use gentle hands when she goes up to him or encouraged her to 'tickle' him instead. The most difficult thing is when I'm preoccupied with DS and she starts doing it.

Letsgoforawalk · 23/10/2014 21:07

blue progress is progress! It's the direction that counts not the pace...

Hi dizzy welcome to the thread. Brew Looking at the situation you describe with your children (many congratulations on your new baby by the way Smile ) it sounds like your DD is responding to the new arrival and the attention he is getting by finding a sure fire way to entertain herself and get your instant attention at the same time. I'm sure some people with recent experience of a similar situation will have some words of wisdom. My suggestion would be to do what you can to have some time each day focusing on your DD and playing solely with her (even five snatched minutes between feeds..let the washing up wait...) Also, if she manages to be in the same room and not to torment the dog, try to notice and tell her how pleased you are that she is treating him well.
It is difficult though, an impulsive toddler is a tricky challenge (who had the chickens problem earlier in the thread?) I hope you are all getting sleeeeep.
It's a bit quiet on here at the mo, but I'm sure that there will be some others along soon to say hello and offer support.
Gotta go ipad battery about to conk out. Sad

DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep · 23/10/2014 22:04

Hello all,
I'm still feeling ropey though I'm , dh is ill but not the same i dont think as he feels ill but not being sick/to the loo but just before bed dt2 puked all over his bedroom floor. The worst thing is dd is meant to be going to play with her friend (my friend's daughter) tomorrow morning, she's been looking forward to it all day. Unless I can send her without us we can't really do it though now in case I pass on the bugs. I haven't seen her mum for ages as she's not so good (has a long term condition) and I was really looking forward to it too. Why is it only when I have a plan, 5 days later, does a child get it?!?!

Toy snatching and total inability to share continues apace here. I say you can have a go when X has finished. Inevitably X never 'finishes' or I know won't before we have to leave the house or something. I can't set up any type of game without arguments and it's getting me.down. I keep snapping in the situations or shouting to be heard above the screeching and screaming of the dc. Sigh. Some better moments in there too but not always.

With the dog baiting I'd try the attention thing and noticing when they're kind to the dog- and also just separate them and get the pet gate ASAP! Wasn't that the only win with the chickens?!

BertieBotts · 24/10/2014 12:06

Hi all, sorry I've been absent, combination of things including a bite on my arm which a facebook link gave me the idea was probably a spider bite Shock as if I needed any more ammunition to hate the buggers Grin Anyway I've been dead tired and nauseous and unable to look at screens for the last 2 days but feeling better now.

Things are going pretty well here. I know it's ridiculous to ascribe such a sudden change to a birthday but there really seems to be a marked difference to six rather than five. (touch wood) - I've actually really enjoyed the last 3 weekends since DS' birthday, spending time with him, doing things etc. We were supposed to have family visiting this weekend but they had to cancel :( Which is disappointing but we haven't spiraled into dispair Grin

Dreaming Oh no, I hate it when that happens. Can you put it off for a week and do something nice today with DD instead to make up for it? Go to the shops and let her choose some ice cream or something?

Dizzy Hi! I think the thread is too long now to read all of it, so just jump in whenever unless you particularly feel like going back when you have time one day. I have to say I have been enjoying your thread and the reassurance that it's okay to shout sometimes Grin I get really caught between two viewpoints a lot of the time. I actually don't think that shouting is the worst thing ever but it can be easy to slip into using it in a non-constructive way, and there are probably better things to do that are more constructive. So I'm kind of torn between, is it good enough? Is it that bad? and the idea that I should be the most perfect, best parent I absolutely can. The latest Renegade Mothering post stuck with me because of this line: I didn’t become some better version of myself, some perfect model of human just because a baby exited my body. This is the single most difficult fact of parenthood for me, and the thing that fucks with me the most. I NEED TO BE A BETTER PERSON BUT I’M NOT, not always. I wish I could make peace with that. Perhaps I need to start a thread and get some reassurance from parents who aren't into the whole self improvement thing Grin (I love that you guys are, BTW, I just hate how we all beat ourselves up when we feel like we're not getting it 100% right).

When DS used to be horrible not very understanding to our cat, I used to take the cat away rather than him, and hold the cat on my lap so that I could basically be in control if DS came over to me and wanted to stroke the cat. Also it's important that the animal has a space to escape to. (Cat was just stubborn!) You could try posting on the dog board here although they are a bit scary! Does the dog have a crate? I think it can be a bit attention seeking as well, when you have a newborn they will do that one thing which they know immediately gets all eyes and focus on them even if it's negative attention.

Dreaming I don't think the apple core thing was a failure. Just brothers working together :) Don't sweat it. Sometimes you have to ignore stuff and pretend it didn't happen for your own sanity!

Plastic/Letsgo No book is magic. I think the buttons one is a bit of a tool in itself, it's not going to change you, it might push you to become a bit more aware of stuff, but in the end it's just a book - it can't really tell you anything you didn't know already. The single most helpful and most used tip I've got from that book so far is the notion that consistency is about what the boundary is, not how you enforce it. So you can't yell at them for jumping on the couch one day but let it go the next because you're tired. But it's okay to enforce that rule in different ways (as long as it's not manipulative/mind-game-y/mean) - one day you could take them down calmly and distract them, another day you might shout and growl threats until they comply, the important part is you never just let them jump on the sofa. You keep that boundary secure and eventually they know where it is and they don't try unless they're deliberately pushing something.

MrPop How old is your little one?

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BertieBotts · 24/10/2014 12:17

I found this the other day which I thought was quite good:

www.yummymummyclub.ca/blogs/andrea-nair-button-pushing/20131212/steps-to-being-less-harsh-on-our-kids

Although I disagree with her idea that "The doctor won't cancel my appointment if it's late", I think a better belief/self talk would be "Getting angry won't get us out of the door any quicker". Because, you know, sometimes it does matter if you're late.

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pookamoo · 24/10/2014 19:16

Hello,

Bertie has kindly pointed me in the direction of this thread from one I started a few days ago.

I am having a very stressful time at the moment with my two, almost 6 and just 3.

This evening has involved book scribbling and cups of water poured over a bed on purpose. I would like very much to "raaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!"
But I am trying to be good.

Although I am not doing too well at it. Sad

pookamoo · 24/10/2014 19:24

Bertie, I thought exactly the same about the doctor - but she is in the US, where they pay heftily upfront for their appointments, not the UK where things are altogether different!

BertieBotts · 24/10/2014 19:31

I think she's in Canada actually, but yes, culture varies a lot, especially around healthcare.

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MoreSnowPlease · 24/10/2014 20:35

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

AnotherMonkey · 24/10/2014 21:14

Hi all, yet again it's not going to be a very helpful one, we've got people staying at the moment so just wanted to show my face and say welcome to pookamoo and dizzy.

bertie I know what you mean about being a bit less critical of ourselves. It's the biggest reason I find renegade mama and eeh bah mum so refreshing. I do want to be reflective about my parenting and I do think that as the adults, it's our responsibility to find a solution when things aren't working. And within that, it can be exhausting and draining and unrewarding and bloody frustrating. And sometimes we need to just give ourselves a break, for sure.

I'd be really interested to know how others on this thread perceive their own upbringing and whether our fears about our own parenting are linked to our relationship with our own parents. I know mine are.

BertieBotts · 24/10/2014 22:02

Good luck MoreSnow!

Ooh interesting question AnotherMonkey :) I had a happy childhood and a good/normal upbringing I think. My mum was certainly very calm and measured and I still have a good relationship with her, can talk to her about almost anything. The only thing that gets in the way of that now is the physical distance and mental health (mine and hers) - and she's totally and completely into angels and stuff which I find a bit eye-roll inducing at times. But that wasn't a big thing when I was younger, just now. I have hardly any relationship with my dad, although I feel just on the positive side of neutral towards him. From what my mum has told me, their relationship wasn't very healthy, verbally and emotionally abusive although she wouldn't have called it that in the 80s and 90s. (I wonder often what her life would have been like if she'd had access to anything like mumsnet). So after they split up we spent weekends with our dad and then that dwindled until it was basically summer holidays only. The thing that I think has affected my parenting the most is that the discipline/rules/etc were so different between my mum and dad's house. It didn't feel like a big issue at the time, probably because I was quite a well behaved child in general, but it's left me with some really odd ideas about discipline which DH was really bemused about. As DH put it "You either had really harsh discipline or no discipline at all as a child, because it's almost like you're afraid of the entire concept of it!" I was shocked by that assertation to begin with, but I've come to realise that actually I had experience of both - with my mum it was all what we would now call gentle parenting, talking, cuddles, understanding, some literal enforcement of rules e.g. separating me and DSis if we were fighting, I remember being turfed outside and sent to sit on the stairs occasionally, but nothing really scary or horrible (apart from one time at 16 where I was grounded and it was the Most Unfair Thing Ever Grin) but with my dad, although I don't remember him actually hitting us, he used to threaten to do it a lot and with very colourful and descriptive language and I was a bit scared of him, I suppose. I know that he and my stepmum do hit (smack) their children occasionally because I've heard my half brother talking about it, and I've seen my dad turn a hose onto my half brother when he was having a tantrum which I found absolutely abhorrent, I was about 17 at the time. Then there was my uncle who was quite nastily and seriously physically abusive to his children, who we were close to in age and relationship, nobody ever did anything about the abuse (I almost called childline about it once but hung up at the last minute) and although I only remember witnessing one incident I do remember witnessing a lot of aftermath and that was scary. And looking back lots of stuff which we accepted as normal for their house at the time which was actually really fucked up :( Ugh. Just writing about him makes me feel all shaky and lightheaded.

So - from that I suppose you could say that I'm scared of being like one of them, it's possible and quite likely that my dad was just on the wrong side of harsh (I would say that soaking a 4yo with a hose as a punishment is abusive, TBH) and I just don't remember it. Mostly he was just missing, and never particularly emotionally available. And doesn't seem aware that I'm even the slightest bit angry about that. (I think this will hit if DH and I ever have a daughter.)

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